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DevGru/Seal Team Six - Who are these guys?

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BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,943
1
0
Man it is hilarious seeing what people post here. People have no f'ing clue.

One of my acquaintances' son became a Navy SEAL. He communicates to his son every few months. He has never "lost" contact. Of course, his son can't say where he is stationed or what he is up to but contact is still made. Special forces are not "spies". They are tactical units that complete missions. They don't go undercover for years.

Some people have been watching too many movies.
While true, it is interesting how much SOCOM has become a secondary CIA. Not only have many special operations soldiers been cross-trained in developing informant networks, but this move has been codified by stanley mchrystal authorizing SOCOM to both operate and develop informant networks outside of the war zones themselves (in Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc).


Uh, you realize there are two kinds of Special Forces, right? Kinetic (or "black) and training (or "white.") The ones everyone likes to fantasize about are the teams that conduct kinetic operations (where force is applied to the enemy) in daring night time raids and such. The less glamorous ones are the sort that are currently training indigenous forces across the globe in places like Libya.

I think I know what kinetic energy is. That would be like what my hand would possess while I was winding up to smack you upside the head, right? Sorry, I could be wrong, I'm just a dumb Army guy. Also, there might be a difference between "kinetic energy" and "kinetic action."
Sure, the SEALs are America's premier DA strike force, while Special Operations are (or, really, were) considered "force multipliers." With the increased burden placed on SOCOM, however, this distinction is really disappearing. Yes, Special Forces still conducts training / arming /etc of indigenous forces around the world, but they are increasingly called on (and increasingly trained for) Direct Action missions.

Hell, even Air Force PJs have been sent in for certain missions due to lack of manpower (not that PJs aren't capable, it is just 110% not their role).


DEVGRU and Delta Force are even less likely to be deployed under strict operational security for prolonged periods than other commandos. Their primary DA missions are very much 'in and out', not days or weeks.
Definitely true, but operational tempo has increased over the last decade, leading DEVGRU and Delta Force to spend lots and lots of time away from home. That, combined with our ability to rapidly deploy them anywhere in the world has also increased their mission-load. Most of these guys have beepers on them 24/7 and have to be ready to respond within 30 min or so.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
0
"Kinetic action special forces?" For god's sake, lay off the video games.
Umm.. Actual "special forces" aka green berets do very little direct fire aka kinetic action. One main task is to train and communicate with native revolutionaries in country and task them with kenetic action. Sure they can do it but much of their training is language and cultural training not kenetic actions. Think of them as American ambassadors/trainers/nation builders with guns.

Seals/rangers/delta are special operations forces who kinetic actions is their mo.

Race horses all of them but very different uses.
 
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BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,943
1
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Umm.. Actual "special forces" aka green berets do very little direct fire aka kinetic action.
False.

One main task is to train and communicate with native revolutionaries in country and task them with kenetic action.
Their primary mission is to serve as a force multiplier. This involves not only training locals, but often fighting alongside them.

Sure they can do it but much of their training is language and cultural training not kenetic actions. Think of them as American ambassadors/trainers/nation builders with guns.
This is just plain wrong. "Most" of their training involves small unit tactics, weapons handling, communication skills, and medical skills. Where their training deviates from a group such as the SEALs is that on top of their unit training, they are also trained in how to train, mobilize, lead, and support revolutionary and paramilitary groups. That is in addition to their training as proficient killing machines, not in replacement.

The role you speak incorrectly about is only one of six primary missions assigned to Special Forces. The others are:

unconventional warfare, foreign internal defense, special reconnaissance, direct action, hostage rescue, and counter-terrorism.

In the context of the first two missions, Special Forces are not ambassadors, they are force multipliers.

Special Forces are often deployed to train and then fight alongside those that they train. In reality, though, Special Forces are increasingly deployed as a short-term direct action force in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc.

As for Special Forces' direct action abilities, they were among the first forces put into Afghanistan in the days (or hours) following September 11th and they have fought there alongside Navy SEALs, Army Rangers, Air Force PJs, and other foreign special operations groups since then.
 
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JDBaughman

Member
May 26, 2011
67
0
61
I'll never forget that Mouse lookin dude that walked up to me wearing torn jeans, a maroon colored raggidy t-shirt, flip flops, a coyote brown hat backwards, and a rifle slung over his chest, asking me how to clear different types of jams from his m14... inspired me...
 

JDBaughman

Member
May 26, 2011
67
0
61
@ Zebo

i got a buddy of mine, that just went back active (green berret) after the army begged him to come back (No kidding. they called and called and called offering bonus after bonus. I actually think they were involved in him not being able to get a job which forced him to go back in not even 3 months after getting out), and has been on countless direct action missions... don't go off what you read on wikipedia or wherever the fuck you get your info... Yes, green berrets train the indigenous population so on and so forth... force multiplier, whatever but thats not all they do. It's funny how DEVGRU took out OBL and now suddenly everyone is blowing loads eveytime they are mentioned and now suddenly all these specwar know-it-alls spring up outta nowhere...
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,267
3
76
I'll never forget that Mouse lookin dude that walked up to me wearing torn jeans, a maroon colored raggidy t-shirt, flip flops, a coyote brown hat backwards, and a rifle slung over his chest, asking me how to clear different types of jams from his m14... inspired me...
You could always tell them because they were the ones out of uniform, and when they were in uniform their firearms, and equipment gave them away, I know we didn't have suppressors :( Of course we almost never knew which branch they were unless they were with us.
 

JDBaughman

Member
May 26, 2011
67
0
61
You could always tell them because they were the ones out of uniform, and when they were in uniform their firearms, and equipment gave them away, I know we didn't have suppressors :( Of course we almost never knew which branch they were unless they were with us.


yea, well, especially those DEVGRU guys, they want them to look as civilian as possible... I have seen some with nice military type haircuts and clean shaven (as most seals) but then I have seen the other guys that just look like straight up slobs... I guess thats the point tho huh? And that Mouse lookin dude i was talking about, skinny as shit, was deff a seal ;)
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,408
2
0
@ Zebo

i got a buddy of mine, that just went back active (green berret) after the army begged him to come back (No kidding. they called and called and called offering bonus after bonus. I actually think they were involved in him not being able to get a job which forced him to go back in not even 3 months after getting out), and has been on countless direct action missions... don't go off what you read on wikipedia or wherever the fuck you get your info... Yes, green berrets train the indigenous population so on and so forth... force multiplier, whatever but thats not all they do. It's funny how DEVGRU took out OBL and now suddenly everyone is blowing loads eveytime they are mentioned and now suddenly all these specwar know-it-alls spring up outta nowhere...
Yeah I didnt mean to make it sound like that. They do DA, probably more than they should in this war, just meant they're not Rangers and not supposed to be their primary utilization.

May 31, 2011
Military.com|by Christian Lowe
FORT BRAGG, N.C. -- During a recent visit to his wife's doctor, Maj. Gen. Bennet Sacolick winced when the physician lamented that it had been SEALs and not Army Special Forces operators who took down terror mastermind Osama bin Laden.

It wasn't the doctors' favoritism toward the Green Berets that irked Sacolick, the chief of the Army Special Warfare Center and School here. Instead it was the civilian doctor's assumption that taking down terrorists is the Special Forces' primary mission.

"It was absolutely so apparent that he had no idea what SF guys do," Sacolick recalled during an interview in his office. "The fact is we're the only force specifically trained and educated to train and work with indigenous forces. Not hunting them down and killing them, but working with them to build partner capacity."
After ten years of post-9/11 conflict, Sacolick is worried the mission of the Special Forces has veered too far toward direction action -- snagging "high value targets" and confronting terrorists and insurgent leaders in lightning raids -- and he's taking it upon himself to steer the commandos back on course.

"I hate analogies like the pointy end of the spear. We're not designed to hunt people down and kill them," Sacolick said. "We have that capability and we have forces that specialize in that. But ultimately what we do that nobody else does is work with our indigenous partner nations."
http://www.military.com/news/article/May-2011/sf-trying-to-adjust-army-doctrine.html
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,981
15
81
This is the one bad thing about a SEAL team doing something major...now all the Generals will want their 'team' to be newsworthy.

Personally I think we need to get out of the Middle East or take it. Fucking around over there costs us money, angers the world and makes us a target.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
DEVGRU got this job for two reasons. First, Delta Force was largely tasked with Iraq, while DEVGRU was largely tasked with Afghanistan. Second, the SEALs have a stronger history of DA (e.g. man hunts, sabotage, and assassinations) going back to Vietnam. It was part of the original primary roles for SEALs, while originally a lesser focus for Army SF until added emphasis was brought much later (80s or 90s).
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,542
260
126
You could always tell them because they were the ones out of uniform, and when they were in uniform their firearms, and equipment gave them away, I know we didn't have suppressors :( Of course we almost never knew which branch they were unless they were with us.
you could always tell them when they entered a secure area that wasn't theirs and they were all named/ID'd as john smith.
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
2,371
0
0
I have a friend who's a SEAL. Said that he tried out for DevGru but failed because apparently you have to beat Chuck Norris in melee combat as part of the testing, and he failed.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,716
164
106
I have a friend who's a SEAL. Said that he tried out for DevGru but failed because apparently you have to beat Chuck Norris in melee combat as part of the testing, and he failed.
You are clearly lying as there would be no DevGru if that was the requirement...Chuck Norris never loses.
 

JDBaughman

Member
May 26, 2011
67
0
61
You are clearly lying as there would be no DevGru if that was the requirement...Chuck Norris never loses.


hahahahahahahahahahaha

not true, I'm pretty sure John McClain would kick Chuck Norris' ass and then go fuck up a couple seals... Seals AREN'T that badass guys... SERIOUSLY ;)
 

randomrogue

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2011
5,462
0
0
If this stuff interests you then it's probably worth checking out some books on them as well as the Mosad and Mercenary work. Take it with a grain of salt of course. I've only run across one mercenary and he came across as crazy (not in a good way) and it definitely wasn't as glamorous or cool as the movies make it out to be.

I have a friend who tried out for the seals. He failed the first question. The scenario was a kill target behind civilians and he stuttered. The correct response was to shoot through the civilian to kill his target. I'm sure they have their upper echelons within the seals but you can see them train from the freeway if you drive down to San Diego. They do their beach training and helicopter into water drills within plain sight.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
I have a friend who tried out for the seals. He failed the first question. The scenario was a kill target behind civilians and he stuttered. The correct response was to shoot through the civilian to kill his target.
They don't take exams on tactical knowledge, protocols, or rules of engagement in order to enter BUD/S. Most of that training is done after BUD/S when they are placed with a team. Rules of engagement will vary depending on the mission or OP.
 

JDBaughman

Member
May 26, 2011
67
0
61
They don't take exams on tactical knowledge, protocols, or rules of engagement in order to enter BUD/S. Most of that training is done after BUD/S when they are placed with a team. Rules of engagement will vary depending on the mission or OP.


I wish this was FB and I could give you a thumbs up for this... but Thumbs Up...

You WILL NEVERRRRRRRRRR be asked a question like that... ROE changes every mission... EVERY theatre of action... I think your friend lied to you man... NOT everyone is cut out for the seal teams... If you are a decent swimmer, average-in-shape, and Have heart to push through the hard stuff and never give up... then you'll make it... Most people drop out of BUDS cause they can't deal with the stress of sleep deprivation, constant PT, being wet 24-7, and just being plain ole misserable for weeks at a time... THE DEVGRU guys are the best of the best within the teams... Best in shape, best with weapons & tactics, best knowledge... have been recomended by their peers and or senior officials...
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,943
1
0
I wish this was FB and I could give you a thumbs up for this... but Thumbs Up...

You WILL NEVERRRRRRRRRR be asked a question like that... ROE changes every mission... EVERY theatre of action... I think your friend lied to you man... NOT everyone is cut out for the seal teams... If you are a decent swimmer, average-in-shape, and Have heart to push through the hard stuff and never give up... then you'll make it... Most people drop out of BUDS cause they can't deal with the stress of sleep deprivation, constant PT, being wet 24-7, and just being plain ole misserable for weeks at a time... THE DEVGRU guys are the best of the best within the teams... Best in shape, best with weapons & tactics, best knowledge... have been recomended by their peers and or senior officials...
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.

BUD/S is the gateway to the SEAL world. If you get through it, it proves that you have a basic level of fitness and understanding of the SEAL mission. Any joe off the street can sign up and be given a shot at BUD/S. The real training begins afterward.

randomrogue -- your friend is full of @#$%
 

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