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Detroit goes out of buisness, declares chapter 11.

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unokitty said:
I found your view simplistic.
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My response was not intended to cover the myriad of details leading to Detroit's downfall or white flight. That would require far more than a couple of posts on an online forum. Those were merely meant as a quick couple of examples causing Detroit's downfall that ran counter to the claim that it was liberal leadership that caused the whole mess.

You are free to view what happened as exclusively a product of 'white fear.' As if 'white fear' was some sort of natural phenomena like the weather that was independent of human manipulation.
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Where in the world did you get the idea that I thought white fear was a natural phenomenon? I certainly made no claim that there were no exacerbating effects one way or the other. 'Many whites leaving' does not mean the same as 'the sole cause' or even 'most whites left because of'. Any perceived indications to the contrary are merely your assumptions.

Furthermore - I never used the term 'white fear'. The reasons for white flight were many and varied and ventured beyond 'fear'. A large factor prior to the race riots was actually the type of jobs that left. They tended to be the middle class/white collar jobs which whites in Detroit dominated. As those jobs left the city so did the whites that were worked in them. The void was often filled by blue collar jobs of which blacks were predominately employed. You don't mention this rather important factor (and long running theme) but I do not assume your view is overly simplistic because you omitted it.

Just so you don't assume that I intend this to be a comprehensive explanation as to white flight and Detroit's downfall - this doesn't even begin to cover the roll infrastructure, the automobile, Detroit's rapid growth and migration tendencies, educational policies, business tax policies and inequities etc etc
 
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Bateluer said:
Are you kidding me? Its mind blowing that even the state government has no understanding of economics and basic finance.
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Its from a Judge and their job (well, outside of the bankruptcy judge anyway) is not to make rulings based on economics and basic finance but to enforce the laws and the Michigan constitution. Michigan constitution prohibits reductions of pensions/benefits and views them as contractual obligations:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28cutqabyozz1dxtfomweuu1mf%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Article-IX-24

This filing comes as no surprise and was expected. I think official hearings started minutes after the bankruptcy was filed. Granted Federal law overrules state law but the state courts aren't just going to roll over when it comes to the state's constitution. I do think the reductions should and will be allowed but - again - no surprise as to the legal minefield.

Oddly enough Chapter 9 does not allow the bankruptcy judges to force changes in spending or the raising of taxes
 
If Detroit is able to get the pensions it owes reduced by the fact they went Chapter 9 you are going to see a lot of cities and towns using Chapter 9 to get out of their obligations. There will be a big rush to file for bankruptcy.
 
techs said:
If Detroit is able to get the pensions it owes reduced by the fact they went Chapter 9 you are going to see a lot of cities and towns using Chapter 9 to get out of their obligations. There will be a big rush to file for bankruptcy.
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And as the town and cities go, so America goes.
 

"The estimated $3.5 billion that the city owes its pension funds is a little more than one-sixth of the $18 billion in long-term debt and obligations that consumes about 46 cents of every dollar Detroit has for basic services."

46 cents of every dollar went to service Detroit's debt?

"... 9,700 city workers but 21,000 retirees drawing benefits."

That's got to hurt.

But can anyone look at the numbers and be surprised?

Uno
 
I hope that someone finally gets the right idea on how to fix Detroit, and bulldozes down all of the unused buildings.

I've used this approach to fix my broken cities in SimCity, anyway 🙂
 
xanis said:
Check it out: http://www.trulia.com/MI/Detroit/

According to Trulia, there are over 1,400 houses listed for $25K or less. I actually even saw a couple on there that were around $15-18K. If you had some spare cash you could totally buy up a few houses and hope that it gets better... though I think 10-20 years is a little optimistic. 😀
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You can buy houses for $100 in Detroit.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Detroit_MI/sby-1?source=web

But then you are expected to maintain it probably or do some rehab I bet. I just don't think it would pay off though unless it's at least near a decent population. The kind of time it's going to take for a population to fill in and expand again to where someone would want to develope around there would take an insane amount of years. Otherwise you just own a tiny lot in a sea of other garbage lots with no purpose.

Not to say there aren't some good large properties closer to a population that might be worth investing and holding until maybe your retirement.
 
Detroit is really just the start though. The baby boomers essentially bankrupted the nation through their short-sided selfishness. Now it's our job to try and fix this mess, unfortunately I see them fighting tooth and nail for every penny. Even San Jose, one of the most prosperous places in the U.S., is essentially bankrupt due to it's insane pensions. Most cities and towns in the U.S. are heading straight off a cliff and we have no solutions.
 
BudAshes said:
Detroit is really just the start though. The baby boomers essentially bankrupted the nation through their short-sided selfishness. Now it's our job to try and fix this mess, unfortunately I see them fighting tooth and nail for every penny. Even San Jose, one of the most prosperous places in the U.S., is essentially bankrupt due to it's insane pensions. Most cities and towns in the U.S. are heading straight off a cliff and we have no solutions.
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Well, they could start by ending the pensions and moving to the gov version of 401(k), even though it sucks.
 
jpiniero said:
http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...it_MI_48204_M43509-91764?row=2&ex=MI553624565

Sold in 2004 for 105k. Currently listed for $39.

The problem with buying these is the property taxes. It's not like you could just buy the property for $39 and hope 40-50 years from now it's worth remotely something as land.
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Hmm... I wonder if I could buy an entire abandoned/run down neighborhood for about $50,000, bulldoze it down, and build my own walled luxury condo compound with private security for the auto executives in the middle of the city. 🙂
 
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