Desmond Tutu supports ASUC divestment from Israel LOL

[Red Dawn]

What you've known all along is jack shit. NOTHING in the article says or implies anything about Tutu's opinion of Judaism. Tutu is entitled to his opinion about Israel's military actions.

Israel is NOT without fault, especially in some of their military actions. In fact, some of their choices strike me as arrogance, stupidity and basic assholiness, and they've picked some of the worst times to exhibit such behavior when the opposite would clearly be to their benefit.

What you've spewed as title and a conclusion are irrelevant dogshit. :thumbsdown:

You antisemiite..wait you're a Jew

 

[Mani]

People that throw around charges of anti-semitism when people attempt a reasonable conversation around the legitimacy of Israel's actions are worse than the race card overplayers. It is truly sad that people cannot question Israel's heavy-handedness in the region without being branded as anti-semites.

What's really ridiculous is claiming that the left is anti-Semitic - for starters, I doubt you'll find many Jews who feel more threatened by the far left than the far right in this country. What drives the far left to sympathize with the Palestinians is their propensity to always favor the underdogs/ have-nots in any social struggle. Calling them anti-semitic would be like charging Tibet sympathizers with being anti-Chinese.

 

[Genx87]

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Lets see of I can get my arms around this, now you want to claim someone's so called belief in God as a special class of human delusion, even if there is zero evidence that they behave in a godly manner?

Silly atheist Stalin and Pol Pot, they should have founded a State sponsored religion where murder and bigotry is a sacrament. And then it would have been a religious virtue you would support and endorse.

You cant be this obtuse.

 

[Atheus]

What's really ridiculous is claiming that the left is anti-Semitic - for starters, I doubt you'll find many Jews who feel more threatened by the far left than the far right in this country. What drives the far left to sympathize with the Palestinians is their propensity to always favor the underdogs/ have-nots in any social struggle. Calling them anti-semitic would be like charging Tibet sympathizers with being anti-Chinese.

Worse than that, there's nothing wrong with being anti-China, since China is a country not a race or a religion. Just like Israel. Calling people who disagree with the actions of Israel anti-semetic is like accusing people who don't like Italian food of engaging in a holy war against the pope...

 

[SamurAchzar]

What drives the far left to sympathize with the Palestinians is their propensity to always favor the underdogs/ have-nots in any social struggle. Calling them anti-semitic would be like charging Tibet sympathizers with being anti-Chinese.

I kind of agree with that, although I disagree with the far left about who's the underdog in this conflict. The most dangerous ones are self-hating extremists like Chomski, who think that the more you piss into your ancestry well, the more of enlightened person you are.

 

[Harvey]

Alan Dershowitz called Desmond an anti-Semite and a bigot. What more need be said?

You have yet to spew anything but your own personal bigotry or said anything else of substance. Why start, now? :thumbsdown:

 

[Noobtastic]

Worse than that, there's nothing wrong with being anti-China, since China is a country not a race or a religion. Just like Israel. Calling people who disagree with the actions of Israel anti-semetic is like accusing people who don't like Italian food of engaging in a holy war against the pope...

Most antisemitism these days revolves around demonizing Israel and its supporters.

Anti-Semitism is alive and kicking, only harder to identify. Racial discriminatory against Jews is anti-Semitism. Applying principals discriminately on Jews only is anti-Semitism. Demanding Jews action based on standards that are demanded only from them is anti-Semitism. Sanctioning Jews for reasons used to sanction only Jews and no others for the same reason, is anti-Semitism. Denying Jews' rights in their homeland is anti-Semitism. Delegitimizing Jews' basic right for a country of their own in their homeland (regardless of borders) is anti-Semitism.

Attacking Israel for its policies, actions, etc. is perfectly OK. NEVER shut-up doing that. If someone would run a world survey concerning citizens' criticism on their own government, I won't be surprised if it would find Israelis most critical of their own government.

But when one criticizes Israel for reasons mentioned above – This is anti-Semitism.

The understanding is that criticism of Israel or "Zionism" can never be antisemitic, and that can't be farther from the truth. Israel is an industry of criticism. It is endless.

It doesn't surprise many Jews and some non-Jews are sick of the scape-goating and write off all the fanatics as antisemitic trolls.

Just look at Europe.

European Union has developed a very explicit definition of what constitutes antisemitism. Many critics of Israel don't even know what antisemitism is:

The purpose of this document is to provide a practical guide for identifying incidents, collecting data, and supporting the implementation and enforcement of legislation dealing with antisemitism.
Working definition: ``Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non*Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.''
In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for ``why things go wrong.'' It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective - such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non*Jews.
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self*determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries). Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property---such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries---are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews. Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries.

http://fra.europa.eu/fraWebsite/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pdf

Israel is one of the most self-critical countries on the planet. It is the only developed state where members of its parliament - some Jews - openly call for the destruction of the state and join Hezbollah and Hamas rallies.

It is the only state where the government subsidizes universities which promote boycotts of that same government.

Can you imagine if a member of Congress were to call for Al-Qaeda or Taliban rallies?

The outrage that would ensue. But in Israel it's just another day.

American's and Europeans are little bitches when it comes to self-criticism. I've exposed the major double standard between our performance in Iraq and Afghanistan, which makes us look likes Nazis compared to Israel's R.O.E in Lebanon, Gaza, and the WB - and I've been shunned and accused of treachery.

I'd like to see this country get the Israeli treatment for one day.

 

[Lemon law]

IHV concludes with, "I'd like to see this country get the Israeli treatment for one day."

Cheer up we already do, and much of that international criticism is self deserved.

But US actions and mid-east actions are somewhat different, what our misguided policies do in the mid-east and Afghanistan effect other nations without having a direct effect on US domestic peace, but it really has a very corrosive effects on entire regions of the globe.



But if we examine a nation like Iran or also Israel, it more becomes the wise arsonist does not set their next door neighbor's house on fire, because the same fire may spread to their house.

But to laud the US actions as the wiser arsonist also is a mistake, we can trace 911 to our meddling in Iraq and Afghanistan, and even if the payback is a bitch consequence is not immediate, we can still say that what we visit on others may come back on us, and in a modern world, distance is no protection.

I wish I could say as a US citizen that 911 was merely a result of no good deed remains unpunished, but sadly, many of us in the USA realize American foreign policy is hardly filled with only good deeds.

 

[Noobtastic]

Nice quote mining as always Lemon Law.

Cheer up we already do, and much of that international criticism is self deserved.

No we don't. We've never been subject to political or academic boycotts. Our government has never been accused of being inspired by racism, or our soldiers are behaving like Nazis, or we have no right to exist because we exterminated the indigenous population.

We haven't received a fraction of the criticism Israel receives. I can't think of another state that is most frequently compared to Nazi Germany.

In fact, you routinely compare Nazi Germany to Israel.

You, an American citizen.

What a joke.

Feel free to respond to my post in its entirety.

 

[Kappo]

Israel can do no wrong, and if you think otherwise you're an anti-semite!!

When my friends go astray I attempt to guide them back, not hope their children die and crap on their faces.

 

[fallout man]

Dershowitz calls everyone a big and antisemite.

that's his trademark.

What does Alan's asshole smell like, IHV?

 

[Noobtastic]

What does Alan's asshole smell like, IHV?

Still apologizing for antisemitic Arabs?

see i can do it too, troll.

 

[fallout man]

Still apologizing for antisemitic Arabs?

see i can do it too, troll.

Who said anything about Arabs? I was querying you about your experiences of pulling your head in and out of Alan's asshole...

Way to derail the thread, genius.

 

[Noobtastic]

Who said anything about Arabs? I was querying you about your experiences of pulling your head in and out of Alan's asshole...

Way to derail the thread, genius.

 

[fallout man]

ha ha you're such a card!

 

[Fear No Evil]

I think there are more Israel threads than any other. And Lemon Head is in every one of them!

 

[Lemon law]

Nice quote mining as always Lemon Law.


No we don't. We've never been subject to political or academic boycotts. Our government has never been accused of being inspired by racism, or our soldiers are behaving like Nazis, or we have no right to exist because we exterminated the indigenous population.

We haven't received a fraction of the criticism Israel receives. I can't think of another state that is most frequently compared to Nazi Germany.

In fact, you routinely compare Nazi Germany to America.

You, an American citizen.

What a joke.

Feel free to respond to my post in its entirety.

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Well IHV, its a where to begin debunking your bullshit. Maybe I should start with "No we don't. We've never been subject to political or academic boycotts. Our government has never been accused of being inspired by racism, or our soldiers are behaving like Nazis.

IHV, where were you sleeping during the civil rights movement of the 1960's, or the Vietnam war protests that spread from college campuses and ultimately lead to a police riot during the 1968 democratic convention. Do you deny Southern racism and slavery was a direct cause of our civil war? Or that GWB was perhaps the most Nazi like President we ever had. And many Americans called GWB out for the Nazi he was.

Then I can move to your next statement of "We haven't received a fraction of the criticism Israel receives. I can't think of another state that is most frequently compared to Nazi Germany." The USA receives plenty of international and domestic self criticism, but Nazi confiscation of property and Israeli confiscation of Palestinian property are the same, maybe Hitler was the real deal because he then killed those he stole from, but the Israeli policy of settling for only tossing them into concentration camps without killing them maybe creates more human misery"

Then I can move to your next statement of, "In fact, you routinely compare Nazi Germany to America." Maybe partially true, but mainly concerning the policies of Nixon and GWB, but see previous point, I mainly compare some of Israeli policies with that of Hitler. While also pointing out similar Arab sins.

Then can address your next point of "You, an American citizen.

What a joke.

Feel free to respond to my post in its entirety.[/QUOTE]"

The fact is and remains, I do not believe in any bullshit "my country right or wrong", and I honestly call them as I see it. I would really really like to side with Israel, the ideals it represents, and I still endorse the Israeli right to exist. But as an American who strongly believes in the separation of church and State, and has a total distaste for religious apartheid States that deem human rights are to be bestowed only on the basis of religion,
I have no problem opposing the present Netanyuhu government of Israel and still defending what Israel has the potential to become.

I hope that answers all your questions and that I covered all of your post, IHV. But as long as you are stuck on the stupid my country right or wrong, you cannot help failing to learn a damn thing about being better instead of worse.

 

[Noobtastic]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well IHV, its a where to begin debunking your bullshit. Maybe I should start with "No we don't. We've never been subject to political or academic boycotts. Our government has never been accused of being inspired by racism, or our soldiers are behaving like Nazis.

IHV, where were you sleeping during the civil rights movement of the 1960's, or the Vietnam war protests that spread from college campuses and ultimately lead to a police riot during the 1968 democratic convention. Do you deny Southern racism and slavery was a direct cause of our civil war? Or that GWB was perhaps the most Nazi like President we ever had. And many Americans called GWB out for the Nazi he was.

Then I can move to your next statement of "We haven't received a fraction of the criticism Israel receives. I can't think of another state that is most frequently compared to Nazi Germany." The USA receives plenty of international and domestic self criticism, but Nazi confiscation of property and Israeli confiscation of Palestinian property are the same, maybe Hitler was the real deal because he then killed those he stole from, but the Israeli policy of settling for only tossing them into concentration camps without killing them maybe creates more human misery"

Then I can move to your next statement of, "In fact, you routinely compare Nazi Germany to America." Maybe partially true, but mainly concerning the policies of Nixon and GWB, but see previous point, I mainly compare some of Israeli policies with that of Hitler. While also pointing out similar Arab sins.

Then can address your next point of "You, an American citizen.

What a joke.

Feel free to respond to my post in its entirety.

The fact is and remains, I do not believe in any bullshit "my country right or wrong", and I honestly call them as I see it. I would really really like to side with Israel, the ideals it represents, and I still endorse the Israeli right to exist. But as an American who strongly believes in the separation of church and State, and has a total distaste for religious apartheid States that deem human rights are to be bestowed only on the basis of religion,
I have no problem opposing the present Netanyuhu government of Israel and still defending what Israel has the potential to become.

I hope that answers all your questions and that I covered all of your post, IHV. But as long as you are stuck on the stupid my country right or wrong, you cannot help failing to learn a damn thing about being better instead of worse.

 

[mjrpes3]

You have yet to spew anything but your own personal bigotry or said anything else of substance. Why start, now? :thumbsdown:

I never meant for this to be a troll thread. I thought my first post would be so over the top everyone would know it was sarcasm. And then the Alan Dershowitz comment... who'd base their opinion on what that guy said? I'd only heard of Dershowitz before because of what he did to Norman Finkelstein.

 

[Harvey]

I never meant for this to be a troll thread. I thought my first post would be so over the top everyone would know it was sarcasm. And then the Alan Dershowitz comment... who'd base their opinion on what that guy said? I'd only heard of Dershowitz before because of what he did to Norman Finkelstein.

Obviously, your intent was lost on most of the crowd, including me. Thanks for clarifying. It's appreciated. :thumbsup: