Denuvo Anti-Tamper (anti-piracy solution)

[Spungo]

Why some files every few days? Just delete the whole thing overwriting the HD with zeros....Use proprietary stuff that is not detectable by avs/anti malwares etc.

When the cheapos get burnt a few times, they will think twice.

Wiping everything is too obvious. If people have backups, they'll just revert to their backup. Deleting the first 1 or 2 lines in files is one of those things you wouldn't realize until it was too late. You continue to make regular backups, you think your data is safe, Windows says the files are there. Then one day you try to open the file and it gives an error saying the file is garbage. Then you realize most of your files are like that. Pictures of your parents before they died are all unreadable. Pictures of your newborn baby are unreadable. Even the backups are garbage because you've been backing up unreadable files for the past 10 months.

This reminds me of when I ran a Counter-Strike server. Before Steam, cheating in Counter-Strike was off the charts. CSGuard was very good at catching cheaters, but I wanted to take it a step further. On my website for the server, I had a page that explained how cheating works. It had screenshots of wallhacking and lambert hacking. I had a tutorial with pictures showing how to install hacks, and I included a link at the bottom of the page for where to find these hacks. It was a link to a site called sp0rkeh.tk. It wasn't hacks. It was a trojan that pretty much made the computer useless and forced a reinstall of Windows 😀
sp0rkeh (youtube video)

Man those were good times.

 

[Rakehellion]

Game developers (FM 2014) for instance said they saw a spike in their sales during the time their protection was not cracked.

You mean at release? That isn't a spike. All games sell the most on release day.

 

[Rakehellion]

Why should people from rich countries cross subsidise by paying higher?

Because that's how the economy works. Don't like the price, don't buy it. Think EA is being too easy on those second-world countries? Boycott them. Boycott Feed the Children while you're at it.

 

[MountainKing]

Because that's how the economy works. Don't like the price, don't buy it. Think EA is being too easy on those second-world countries? Boycott them. Boycott Feed the Children while you're at it.

Why are you comparing children in need to people looking for leisure? I totally understand and agree to cross subsidisation to help the needy. And my idea of someone in need is not some 2 penny cheapo who should pay for entertainment cheaper.

 

[Rakehellion]

Why are you comparing children in need to people looking for leisure? I totally understand and agree to cross subsidisation to help the needy. And my idea of someone in need is not some 2 penny cheapo who should pay for entertainment cheaper.

Bottom line, you're not the one who decides prices for someone else's product, so why whine about it? You want cheaper games, move to Russia.


And leisure is a necessity too.

http://www.toysfortots.org
http://www.childsplaycharity.org
https://wish.org

 

[MountainKing]

Why move to Russia if I can either buy it using another location or downright hack it. This is a forum. A place to express your opinion. I am definetely not whining. So take your crap elsewhere if you cannot have a discussion. Video games are not a necessity.

 

[Rakehellion]

No need to throw a hissy fit, you 2 penny cheapo.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Who cares?

Pirates mostly play games because they don't have the money to buy everything they want, delaying the release of a pirate copy doesn't increase sales for those people who simply cannot afford it.

The reality of the matter is that every time piracy is measured amongst the general public the pirates are the people who spend significantly more money on legitimate products than the average person anyway.

If it takes a few weeks to crack instead of a few days then people with no money will simply wait.

 

[bystander36]

Who cares?

Pirates mostly play games because they don't have the money to buy everything they want, delaying the release of a pirate copy doesn't increase sales for those people who simply cannot afford it.

The reality of the matter is that every time piracy is measured amongst the general public the pirates are the people who spend significantly more money on legitimate products than the average person anyway.

If it takes a few weeks to crack instead of a few days then people with no money will simply wait.

While I certain pirates would still not purchase most the games they pirated, I would bet they'd still purchase games, just not as many.

 

[Carfax83]

Who cares?

Pirates mostly play games because they don't have the money to buy everything they want, delaying the release of a pirate copy doesn't increase sales for those people who simply cannot afford it.

I don't buy this at all. If you can afford to buy a computer that can run these games, then surely you can afford 50 or 60 bucks for the games themselves. And there are several options for buying games at a significant discount even on release day. If thats not enough, then you can wait a few months for the game to drop in price..

Pirates pirate because they can, nuff said.. All these excuses is just a form of denial..

 

[ImpulsE69]

I don't buy this at all. If you can afford to buy a computer that can run these games, then surely you can afford 50 or 60 bucks for the games themselves. And there are several options for buying games at a significant discount even on release day. If thats not enough, then you can wait a few months for the game to drop in price..

Pirates pirate because they can, nuff said.. All these excuses is just a form of denial..

Yea I kind of have the same attitude for those companies doing the same thing, you know, tax evasion, unfair business practices, embezzling, oh..what else have they done? Hmm. I know, they are amazing upstanding role models to be demanding everyone obey the law. Only difference is they use other peoples money to buy lawyers and pay off governments.

Is it right no, but please stop pretending you are some elite dogooder saving these companies from ruin. They ruin themselves.

 

[bystander36]

Yea I kind of have the same attitude for those companies doing the same thing, you know, tax evasion, unfair business practices, embezzling, oh..what else have they done? Hmm. I know, they are amazing upstanding role models to be demanding everyone obey the law. Only difference is they use other peoples money to buy lawyers and pay off governments.

Is it right no, but please stop pretending you are some elite dogooder saving these companies from ruin. They ruin themselves.

Do you honestly believe all businesses do these things. Or even most, heck, even a significant percentage?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Do you honestly believe all businesses do these things. Or even most, heck, even a significant percentage?

Yes, actually I do. The question is, why don't you? Those who can get away with it, will. I'm not talking about the devs and the grunts here.

 

[Rakehellion]

I don't buy this at all. If you can afford to buy a computer that can run these games, then surely you can afford 50 or 60 bucks for the games themselves. And there are several options for buying games at a significant discount even on release day. If thats not enough, then you can wait a few months for the game to drop in price..

Pirates pirate because they can, nuff said.. All these excuses is just a form of denial..

Everyone has a computer. It's a necessity of life. Not everyone has enough expendable income to spend $800 a year on games that they'll play for 10 minutes each.

 

[Rakehellion]

Do you honestly believe all businesses do these things. Or even most, heck, even a significant percentage?

You mean EA? Ubisoft? Yes.

 

[Carfax83]

Is it right no, but please stop pretending you are some elite dogooder saving these companies from ruin. They ruin themselves.

And stop pretending you're some white knight consumer protector, out to protect innocent unsuspecting consumers from those greedy companies that are just luring them in to steal their money. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy anything.

As has been said many times in this thread, games are a luxury, not a necessity. And even companies with the best intentions towards it's customers (like CDPR) get their games pirated out the ass..

I will guarantee that the Witcher 3 will be pirated by millions of people, who will never pay for the game at any stage..

 

[ImpulsE69]

And stop pretending you're some white knight consumer protector, out to protect innocent unsuspecting consumers from those greedy companies that are just luring them in to steal their money. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy anything.

As has been said many times in this thread, games are a luxury, not a necessity. And even companies with the best intentions towards it's customers (like CDPR) get their games pirated out the ass..

I will guarantee that the Witcher 3 will be pirated by millions of people, who will never pay for the game at any stage..

Really? Millions? Do you have proof? There is no proof, that is the ENTIRE point. You can't guarantee anything but your speculation. And hell yes they are luring unsuspecting cutomers....we can name quite a few games right off the top.

 

[Carfax83]

Everyone has a computer. It's a necessity of life. Not everyone has enough expendable income to spend $800 a year on games that they'll play for 10 minutes each.

But not all computers are capable of playing games, especially the latest cutting edge games. A decent gaming PC is going to cost around 800 dollars if you want to play the latest titles at 1080p with good frame rate and high IQ..

If you can afford that, you can afford 50 bucks for games. As for playing them for "10 minutes each," I don't know what you mean. It's up to the consumer to make a wise decision with their game purchases, and not just buy any and every game without any thought or regard.

The time for doing that is Steam and Origin sales, when the games are dirt cheap. But for new games, you should do your research and buy only the games that you genuinely want.

 

[bystander36]

Yes, actually I do. The question is, why don't you? Those who can get away with it, will. I'm not talking about the devs and the grunts here.

Business will do everything in their power to make money, but that does not mean they cheat, and break the law. They do everything they can to make money within the rules and maybe hit some gray areas. I do not believe people blatantly break the law as a common practice. Well, that is businesses. It sounds like you do. One major reason I believe what I do is that I know many people who own or have owned/ran businesses. They get audited constantly. The government is constantly keeping tabs on them. They can't easily break the law as you may seem to think. It may happen, but not like you think. Just because you hear of stories, and see movies on the subject, doesn't make that the norm. Normal corporate America is too boring for the movies.

But here is the thing. Even though they make money, they do not make as much as you think. The truth is, most games lose money. The companies stay in business because of a few hits that make a lot of money.

And the only people you hurt, in the end, are the gamers. You see, business have to make money, or they go out of business. So if they don't make money giving us good games, they stop making good games. They cut corners, they stop supporting PC gamers, they cut back on the scope of games, and they may even raise the price tag.

In the end, we, the gamers, are the only people that lose with pirating.

 

[Carfax83]

Really? Millions? Do you have proof? There is no proof, that is the ENTIRE point. You can't guarantee anything but your speculation. And hell yes they are luring unsuspecting cutomers....we can name quite a few games right off the top.

I don't have proof, but I have evidence. Witcher 2 was pirated some 4.5 million times according to CDPR:

Source

And although CDPR is against DRM because historically, it's inevitably ended up being cracked and so one can reasonably conclude that it's a useless foil against pirates and just bothers legitimate customers.

That is, until Denuvo came on the scene. I wouldn't be surprised if CDPR changes their tune in the future if Denuvo proves successful at preventing piracy.

 

[Fire&Blood]

I don't have proof, but I have evidence. Witcher 2 was pirated some 4.5 million times according to CDPR:

Source

And although CDPR is against DRM because historically, it's inevitably ended up being cracked and so one can reasonably conclude that it's a useless foil against pirates and just bothers legitimate customers.

That is, until Denuvo came on the scene. I wouldn't be surprised if CDPR changes their tune in the future if Denuvo proves successful at preventing piracy.

That article is quite old, I would think the pirated count should be much higher now, the sales went up since then as well: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-25-cd-projekt-red-announces-6-million-the-witcher-sales

As for CDPR changing their stance on DRM, I doubt it. If someone else drove GOG then it would be a little more likely but as it is, I don't expect them to endorse DRM, not after working so hard to get GOG going.


I'm pretty sure Denuvo will prevent cracking games for the foreseeable future. IIRC, 5-6 years ago some racing game introduced a new DRM that took 2 years to beat. However I don't think Denuvo will help drive sales nearly as much as publishers may be banking on it. Ensuring a game doesn't show up on pirating sites is only one part of the equation, getting the people who would have pirated the game to buy it is another.

I think gaming industry would be better off making games that innovate and stand out to attract normal consumers rather than trying to convert pirates into honest customers. I know a lot of people who buy 2-3 games per year, landing a hit with that crowd IMO would return more than trying to fight pirates head on.

 

[Elixer]

Fact is, those guys are salaried. If EA's stock price goes up 15%, that money goes straight to the CEO.

If stock goes up 15%, then every shareholder gets a 15% increase, and since most of the employees have said stock as well, they ALSO get 15% increase as well.
If they are salaried, well, they can negotiate.
On the same token, if they release a game and it sucks, and tanks the stock 30%, CEO is out of a job, and the salaried people don't care.
This is getting way off topic though.

There is no true anti-piracy solution that will stop everyone. It doesn't matter how it is implemented, it always will be broken in time. Both hardware based DRM & software has been broken.
They said blu-ray with its adaptive DRM would never be broken, and if it was, they can simply change the DRM. We see how well that worked out for them.

If you treat your customers, like they are not crooks, (like CD projekt red does) then, people are more likely to buy their stuff again.

Here, Denuvo is trying to block any tools / debuggers or anything else it considers "wrong" for people to run. This *is* DRM. Doesn't matter if they say it isn't, it is.
This is basically a white list of things that is allowed to run on the system.
That means, that people who happen to have "wrong" software installed can get screwed. There is NO mention at all what is allowed, and what isn't.
Slight edit, the publisher may have more control on what is, and what isn't allowed it seems.
So, the first step is to remove Denuvo's ring access to be allowed to run anything you want again. Then, once that is done, you need to dig into the program, and disable the DRM.
Sure, it isn't easy, but, this was done in the past by trying to block things like softice debugger. That ended up delaying some things, until they finally cracked that as well.

I dunno about you, but, not being able to run things I want on my system is pure BS. I bought the system, the OS, and everything else I have installed on it, and if some game tries to tell me differently, then they can pound sand, and I would expect a refund.

 

[Carfax83]

That article is quite old, I would think the pirated count should be much higher now, the sales went up since then as well: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-10-25-cd-projekt-red-announces-6-million-the-witcher-sales

Yeah, but it still shows the extent of pirating.. The truth is that many games are pirated more often than are sold legitimately.

As for CDPR changing their stance on DRM, I doubt it. If someone else drove GOG then it would be a little more likely but as it is, I don't expect them to endorse DRM, not after working so hard to get GOG going.

Perhaps you're right. CDPR has invested so much in an anti DRM stance, that it would seem strange and hypocritical for them to reverse themselves at this stage.

I'm pretty sure Denuvo will prevent cracking games for the foreseeable future. IIRC, 5-6 years ago some racing game introduced a new DRM that took 2 years to beat. However I don't think Denuvo will help drive sales nearly as much as publishers may be banking on it. Ensuring a game doesn't show up on pirating sites is only one part of the equation, getting the people who would have pirated the game to buy it is another.

If you check pirating forums, there are a ton of people "waiting" for a crack to be released for DAI. So they definitely want to play the game, there's no doubt. Here's a few examples:

Example.
Example

The question is, how long are they willing to wait to do so? Denuvo could conceivably take years to crack like you said. If it's not cracked by the end of the year, many of these pirates will just buy the game when it's on sale for Christmas I believe..

I think gaming industry would be better off making games that innovate and stand out to attract normal consumers rather than trying to convert pirates into honest customers. I know a lot of people who buy 2-3 games per year, landing a hit with that crowd IMO would return more than trying to fight pirates head on.

They can use both tactics. Make better higher quality games, and make piracy really hard. Thats what DAI has done.

It will be interesting to see DAI's sales figures broken down across platforms at the end of the quarter.

 

[Rakehellion]

If stock goes up 15%, then every shareholder gets a 15% increase, and since most of the employees have said stock as well, they ALSO get 15% increase as well.

You think EA's 9000 employees all have stock options? You're delusional. That sort of thing is reserved for the top 1% of salaries.

If they are salaried, well, they can negotiate.

They already negotiated. That's why they have a job right now.

 

[Rakehellion]

But not all computers are capable of playing games, especially the latest cutting edge games. A decent gaming PC is going to cost around 800 dollars if you want to play the latest titles at 1080p with good frame rate and high IQ..

You have a computer, throw a $150 graphics card at it, now you have a gaming PC.

If you can afford that, you can afford 50 bucks for games. As for playing them for "10 minutes each," I don't know what you mean. It's up to the consumer to make a wise decision with their game purchases, and not just buy any and every game without any thought or regard.

Sure you can afford $50 for games and many people do, but you can't afford the hundreds of dollars it costs to buy every AAA title that comes out in a year.

you should do your research and buy only the games that you genuinely want.

How can you possibly know you want a game if you've never played it before? That's part of the problem.