Denied First Amendment Right?

[dullard]

<< Dullard,

Did you read the thread before posting? >>



Yes I did. Did you read the US Supreme Court rulings before posting? This has come up before, and the school always wins in court. Sure the ACLU is against it. The ACLU often is against what the courts rule.

 

[OutHouse]

dont tell me what should be on my fricken agenda.

 

[gopunk]

<< dont tell me what should be on my fricken agenda. >>



so you don't care if your civil liberties are taken away? which is it?

 

[lykaon78]

Its 7:00, I'm still at work, and I'm reading Anandtech forums. But, I see an opportunity to utilize some off my education that I so seldomly use at work and I have to grab it.

In my civil liberties classes in college we talked about censorship at school and church and state issues.

dullard was right, free speech can be limited, and the Supreme Court has mostly held that school is a place were the absolute right to free speech does not exist. For example, the school has the ability to limit speech (to be read speech, writing, and certain actions that make statements ie wearing a WWJD? bracelet) that may be disruptive or harmful. Generally courts would side with a principal in these matters.

However, your brothers paper would be neither disruptive nor harmful (unless there was to be a presentation in front of the class).

On seperation of church or state, the Constituition is pretty clear that no law shall endorse a particular religion. The teacher reading a paper based on the bible is clearly not any type of endorsement. Besides, the whole point of this paper is probably to evaluate your brothers writing ability and his ability to contruct an arguement and defend his position in a clear manner. He could write about why it is socially acceptable to flick boogers at his classmates and as long as he devoolps a well written arguement eith support for his position he should get an A.

I did like IJump's suggestion that he should write a paper presenting evidence for or against the historical event of Noah's Ark.

Another suggestion, why not talk to the teacher, see their point of view before the paper gets turned in.

-Lykaon78

 

[OutHouse]

with what part do you disagree with? chances are, they got it from looking at supreme court rulings. they don't explicitly cite any sources, but if you read the beginning, it gives you a rough idea. and it's unlikely that it's only an aclu interpretation, judging from the list of co-signers.

see you dont even know where they came from the sources at the bottom are irrelivant. Churches and the ACLU do not make laws.

 

[dullard]

<< Where did they get these laws? are they mingles with the ACLU agenda? I find that page suspect. >>



It says right on the ACLU page where they got those.

<< we offer this statement of consensus [of the] organizations whose names appear below >>

. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and find out who is in this consensus of what America's law should be in their opinion. This listing is not necessarily based on any law or rulings, it is what those organizations wish was law.

 

[gopunk]

<< chances are, they got it from looking at supreme court rulings
see you dont even know where they came from. >>



i'll ask you once more, which part do you disagree with?

read the beginning:

Though there are signatories on both sides which have and will press for different constitutional treatments of some of the topics discussed below, they all agree that the following is an accurate statement of what the law currently is.

this is an agreement, between many different parties, as to what the current law is.

 

[Russ]

Citrix,

As much as I loathe and distrust the ACLU, in this case they are correct.



<< with what part do you disagree with? >>



I'm calling UW and demanding the immediate return of any tax money I paid in to the English department.



<< << Dullard,

Did you read the thread before posting? >>

Yes I did. Did you read the US Supreme Court rulings before posting? >>



Show us a single Supreme Court case that involves a situation as outlined above, where the court ruled in favor of a teacher who denied a student the right to voluntarily do a report on a topic such as this. NOT a case where a student or parent demanded that a teacher teach it.

Russ, NCNE

 

[gopunk]

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and find out who is in this consensus of what America's law should be in their opinion. This listing is not necessarily based on any law or rulings, it is what those organizations wish was law.

actually, it also says:

Though there are signatories on both sides which have and will press for different constitutional treatments of some of the topics discussed below, they all agree that the following is an accurate statement of what the law currently is.

clearly, not all of them think that the law should be what they wrote, but still agree that it is the way the courts are ruling these days.

 

[gopunk]

<< with what part do you disagree with? >>


I'm calling UW and demanding the immediate return of any tax money I paid in to the English department.

go ahead, no skin off my back

yeesh, make one little typo....

 

[BlueApple]

<< It's perfectly legal for him to write about the bible. It's not legal for the teacher to advocate Christianity. >>


A+ for notfred.


<< On a side note, it's people like her that give the rest of us agnostics/atheists a bad image. There's a difference between disagreeing with someone else's beliefs and trying to silence those beliefs. The first is perfectly OK, the second is just plain assinine and the teacher has chosen the second. >>


Good point.

/me injects Russ with 50 CC's of G.O.P.

I hope you return to your old self soon.
(well, I really don't, but your political posts always provide me with humor)

 

[Yzzim]

Hmm...thanks for the advice everyone (I think)

My mom called the teacher and the teacher again stated that he could not do a paper on anything Biblical. My mom read to her the info from the ACLU and some other stuff she dug up about the first amedment and such. The teacher then told my mom that my brother couldn't write the paper because he woudn't be able to find enough resources to do a paper on (he needs 7). My mom listed off a bunch of resources we have just in the house (movies, at least 3 or 4 books) and also stated about how a "great flood" is talked about in many different cultures....it's not just talked about in the Bible.
Anyway, to sum up a 45 minute phone call the teacher said that it was OK that he did the paper if he could come up with enough resources. I just hope the teacher doesn't rip apart my bro's essay.

 

[gopunk]

four words come to mind:

NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE

i'm sorry, but i really think this was the wrong thing to do, maybe the teacher is cool, and will grade fairly, but i think the vast majority of teachers would have now marked your brother as a problem student, and have a negative attitude towards him. and for what? in the long run, this doesn't even matter.

 

[GasX]

<< This teacher is full of crap, and is twisting the meaning to suit her own bigoted agenda.

Russ, NCNE >>

Nah - probably just afraid of the likely consequences of hypersensitive F-tards. I wouldn't hold it against her. I'd hold it against the lawyers.

 

[Yzzim]

<< four words come to mind:

NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE

i'm sorry, but i really think this was the wrong thing to do, maybe the teacher is cool, and will grade fairly, but i think the vast majority of teachers would have now marked your brother as a problem student, and have a negative attitude towards him. and for what? in the long run, this doesn't even matter. >>


Well, I don't really think he should have just turned his back and been denied his first amendment right. I believe he did the right thing. I think it will all work out. Might not seem like it now but I think it will.

Gotta have faith

 

"So, he goes up to the teacher and asks her if that's a good topic. She said 'Seperation of church and state. You're not allowed to do any topic based on the Bible.'"

Freakin' crap. This is partly why I detest high school and college level teachers who teach speech and English subjects especially.

Gosh! Who the hell told her that one couldn't be smart to write a paper on such subject without diverting into the details of particular religions? :| Why cannot she give him a chance with a set deadline to write an outline? Then based on his outline, if it leans strongly toward the internal aspects of religions or if it lacks in substance, then she can suggest to him another topic.

Sir, I would contemplate a litigation if that were I.

 

[b0mbrman]

<<

<< But, if he wants to be himself he also has to take the consequences for it and that could be getting a bad grade >>


Why should he get a bad grade on a story that is found in the Bible? Just because it's in the Bible?
Gotta run to work.....be back around midnight cst >>


No, it has nothing to do with it being in the bible. True, she's (I'm assuming it's a woman but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me) being a total c*ck goblin but she said as such...if he believes so strongly that he's doing the right thing, then he should be willing to receive a bad grade.

He'll sleep fine at night knowing he did what was good

 

[Russ]

<< Well, I don't really think he should have just turned his back and been denied his first amendment right. >>



Kudos to you!

Russ, NCNE