Dems use of 12-year old as Absolute Moral Authority against Bush's veto of SCHIP expansion backfires

[Genx87]

As a small business owner the goal is to erase all income so you arent stuck paying income tax. They do this by purchasing cars, using expenses, leaving the money in the business. Hell his company may even be paying for the school and using it as a deduction.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice to see that the truth about this kid and his family has come out.

Using a 12 year old who goes to a $20,000 a year private school to fight for a program for the poor is rather pathetic.

the fact that he goes to a private school should really be a non-issue unless you have proof that he's not getting a scholarship, financial aid, or involved in some type of work study program.

The parents are rich...they are screwing the system...didnt you read the article?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Genx87
As a small business owner the goal is to erase all income so you arent stuck paying income tax. They do this by purchasing cars, using expenses, leaving the money in the business. Hell his company may even be paying for the school and using it as a deduction.

Please provide any sources that you might have that this family is beholden to the same moral (or in this case..lack of) beliefs that you seem to be advocating.

 

[EagleKeeper]

It seems to be a universal fact that people, Dems and Repub alike abhor paying extra taxes.

The least amount of tax burden is attempted and business owners have accountants whose jobs are to reduce the amount of taxes.

 

[Fern]

The Repubs just need to counter with an ad of a 16 yrs old trust fund (full of double tax free muni's) brat driving a BMW who stops his car to thank the Dems for free health care insurance....

Fern

 

[Queasy]

Mark Steyn

Over the weekend, I posted a couple of things re Graeme Frost, the Democratic Party's 12-year old healthcare spokesman. Michelle Malkin reports that the blogospheric lefties are all steamed about the wingnuts' Swiftboating of sick kids, etc.

Sorry, no sale. The Democrats chose to outsource their airtime to a Seventh Grader. If a political party is desperate enough to send a boy to do a man's job, then the boy is fair game. As it is, the Dems do enough cynical and opportunist hiding behind biography and identity, and it's incredibly tedious. And anytime I send my seven-year-old out to argue policy you're welcome to clobber him, too. The alternative is a world in which genuine debate is ended and, as happened with Master Frost, politics dwindles down to professional staffers writing scripts to be mouthed by Equity moppets.

But one thing is clear by now: Whatever the truth about this boy's private school, his family home, his father's commercial property, etc, the Frosts are a very particular situation and do not illustrate any social generality - and certainly not one that makes the case for an expensive expansive all-but universal entitlement.

A more basic point is made very robustly by Kathy Shaidle: Advanced western democracies have delivered the most prosperous societies in human history. There simply are no longer genuinely "poor" people in sufficient numbers. As Miss Shaidle points out, if you're poor today, it's almost always for behavioral reasons - behavior which the state chooses not to discourage but to reward. Nonetheless, progressive types persist in deluding themselves that there are vast masses of the "needy" out there that only the government can rescue. An editorial in Canada's biggest-selling newspaper today states:

A total of 905,000 people visited food banks across the Greater Toronto Area in the past year.

The population of Toronto is about two-and-a-half million. Is the Star suggesting one in three citizens of one of the wealthiest municipalities on earth depends on "food banks"? Or is it the same one thousand people getting three square meals a day there? Or ten thousand people swinging by a couple of times a week? And, in that case, how many of them actually "depend" on food banks? Only the Star knows. But the idea that 905,000 Torontonians need food aid is innumerate bunk.

So, in the absence of real need, we've persuaded ourselves that we need to create more and more programs for the middle-class and wealthy. Several correspondents have written to scoff at the idea that the Frosts are wealthy, citing family friends who suggest the grandparents chip in for the private-school fees.

But hang on. That's as it should be. That's the kind of healthy transgenerational solidarity without which no society can survive (see Europe). Graeme Frost's maternal grandfather died last December, and The Baltimore Sun reported:

At Bendix, he helped develop the first microwave landing systems for commercial aircraft and worked on NASA's manned space program from 1960 to 1977. For the next decade, he worked in management at Bendix facilities in Iowa, Florida, New Jersey and Baltimore. From 1989 to 1991, he was vice president of engineering at Nurad Technologies, which manufactures antennas.

Mr. Sebring never officially retired, serving as an engineering consultant for the Navy for 15 years, assisting with communication systems between helicopters and surface ships.

So executive vice-presidents' families are now the new new poor? I support lower taxes for the Frosts, increased child credits for the Frosts, an end to the "death tax" and other encroachments on transgenerational wealth transfer, and even severe catastrophic medical-emergency aid of one form or other. But there is no reason to put more and more middle-class families on the government teat, and doing so is deeply corrosive of liberty.

And, if the Democrats don't like me saying that, next time put up someone in long pants to make your case.

 

[nageov3t]

The population of Toronto is about two-and-a-half million. Is the Star suggesting one in three citizens of one of the wealthiest municipalities on earth depends on "food banks"? Or is it the same one thousand people getting three square meals a day there? Or ten thousand people swinging by a couple of times a week? And, in that case, how many of them actually "depend" on food banks? Only the Star knows. But the idea that 905,000 Torontonians need food aid is innumerate bunk.

jeez, what a real douche bag.

I worked at a food bank all through high school... believe me, you'd have to be a pathologically cheap, bordering on mentally ill, person to eat at one habitually voluntarily.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: loki8481

The population of Toronto is about two-and-a-half million. Is the Star suggesting one in three citizens of one of the wealthiest municipalities on earth depends on "food banks"? Or is it the same one thousand people getting three square meals a day there? Or ten thousand people swinging by a couple of times a week? And, in that case, how many of them actually "depend" on food banks? Only the Star knows. But the idea that 905,000 Torontonians need food aid is innumerate bunk.

jeez, what a real douche bag.

I worked at a food bank all through high school... believe me, you'd have to be a pathologically cheap, bordering on mentally ill, person to eat at one habitually voluntarily.

I think he is pointing out there is not enough data to draw any real conclusion based on that 900k number. It could be 300 people getting 3 meals a day from there, or 905k people visiting once a year. My guess he is right that the real answer is closer to the former and not the later as it doubtful that 1/3 of toronto needs food aid. As they say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: loki8481
it's true. this totally justifies denying healthcare to millions of kids.

I'm sure a single mom with 3 kids making 40K/year in NYC thanks you for your diligence.

She would be covered under the existing system which Bush was prepared to reauthorize with a $5 billion increase in funding. Instead, Dems tried to expand it $35 billion and include families that can afford the program. The fact that the Dems were willing to trot out this 12-year old to pull at the heart string when his parents can more than afford private health insurance proves the point that you don't expand SCHIP and take away resources from those that need it the most so that those that don't can have it too.

I have a more radical proposal: Eliminate Social Security, Medicare, and other socialist programs. Get the hell out of Iraq and stop acting like world police/cowboys. Cut taxes accordingly and suddenly people have much, much more income that can go towards private insurance or medical savings accounts. But apparently Americans are too stupid to take care of themselves so we should just socialize the system and penalize those who are wise enough to plan for emergencies rather than depend on handouts.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: loki8481
it's true. this totally justifies denying healthcare to millions of kids.

I'm sure a single mom with 3 kids making 40K/year in NYC thanks you for your diligence.

She would be covered under the existing system which Bush was prepared to reauthorize with a $5 billion increase in funding. Instead, Dems tried to expand it $35 billion and include families that can afford the program. The fact that the Dems were willing to trot out this 12-year old to pull at the heart string when his parents can more than afford private health insurance proves the point that you don't expand SCHIP and take away resources from those that need it the most so that those that don't can have it too.

I have a more radical proposal: Eliminate Social Security, Medicare, and other socialist programs. Get the hell out of Iraq and stop acting like world police/cowboys. Cut taxes accordingly and suddenly people have much, much more income that can go towards private insurance or medical savings accounts. But apparently Americans are too stupid to take care of themselves so we should just socialize the system and penalize those who are wise enough to plan for emergencies rather than depend on handouts.

yeah... that would be a horrible idea.

 

[palehorse]

But there is no reason to put more and more middle-class families on the government teat, and doing so is deeply corrosive of liberty.

that says it all.

/thread

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

But there is no reason to put more and more middle-class families on the government teat, and doing so is deeply corrosive of liberty.

that says it all.

/thread

Essentially what I said as well.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The parents are rich...they are screwing the system...didnt you read the article?

The article is OUTRAGEOUSLY lying.

1. Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.

2. His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.

3. They bought their "lavish house" sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.

4. Last year, the Frost?s made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.

5. The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/...ttacking-graeme-frost/

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The parents are rich...they are screwing the system...didnt you read the article?

The article is OUTRAGEOUSLY lying.

1. Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.

2. His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.

3. They bought their "lavish house" sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.

4. Last year, the Frost?s made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.

5. The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/...ttacking-graeme-frost/

I mentioned that it could have been paid for by financial aid, but rightwingers on this board were so eager to bash this kid and his middle class family, that they completely ignored it.

 

[theeedude]

http://corner.nationalreview.c...ZlNDNjZTlhOGU3NjNlZDA=

Call me Nostradamus, but something tells me that, now that we know that they are on financial aid to go to that private school and paid $55K for the house, NRO and rightwing hacks who bashed this kid in the media and on the internet will not be apologizing for maligning him and his family

 

[charrison]

IF they are a family need, I dont have a huge problem with schip program. However if they are not in need and then do they deserve government help. This is not so much about the frost family, but in general. IF family do not need help, why expand the program...

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice to see that the truth about this kid and his family has come out.

Using a 12 year old who goes to a $20,000 a year private school to fight for a program for the poor is rather pathetic.

the fact that he goes to a private school should really be a non-issue unless you have proof that he's not getting a scholarship, financial aid, or involved in some type of work study program.

A 12yr old in work study does not fly.

The other potential issues are not questions that people will ask.

The Dems made a poor choice in their example by not looking behind the curtain.

Seems like Republicans are the ones who made a poor choice of bashing this kid and his family without looking behind the curtain and instead making generalizations. Now there is going to be backpedaling, but I doubt there will be an apology.

 

[electronicmaji]

MY family makes 35 thousand with 2 kids and we have absolutely no benefits.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: electronicmaji
MY family makes 35 thousand with 2 kids and we have absolutely no benefits.

This may be general commentary on your part, but just so this is clear for everyone, among other things the program depends on what state you live in with regards to what the income cutoff is.

To a certain extent this makes perfect sense as the cost of living in North Dakota for instance is far lower than living in New York, so you should adjust the appropriate poverty level according. You certainly can't get housing at the same price in New York City that you could in North Dakota.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice to see that the truth about this kid and his family has come out.

Using a 12 year old who goes to a $20,000 a year private school to fight for a program for the poor is rather pathetic.

the fact that he goes to a private school should really be a non-issue unless you have proof that he's not getting a scholarship, financial aid, or involved in some type of work study program.

A 12yr old in work study does not fly.

The other potential issues are not questions that people will ask.

The Dems made a poor choice in their example by not looking behind the curtain.

Seems like Republicans are the ones who made a poor choice of bashing this kid and his family without looking behind the curtain and instead making generalizations. Now there is going to be backpedaling, but I doubt there will be an apology.

Nobody is bashing the kid. Bashing the Dems for using the kid as an ideological shield? Absolutely...they've been hiding behind kids and using them as political props during this whole thing. Questioning the parent's decision to NOT purchase health insurance through the business that they own and run? Absolutely. Questioning news agencies that run stories stating that the Frost's employer doesn't provide insurance while neglecting to mention that they are their own employer? Absolutely.

Through all this, it has been neglected that the Frost's STILL qualify for S-CHIP under the administration plan of using the existing system, tweaking it to insure those that it is intended to receive the benefits receive the benefits, and increase funding 20%.

I feel bad for the kids in this because they are being used as political footballs.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
The parents are rich...they are screwing the system...didnt you read the article?

The article is OUTRAGEOUSLY lying.

1. Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.

2. His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.

3. They bought their "lavish house" sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.

4. Last year, the Frost?s made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.

5. The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/...ttacking-graeme-frost/

This is the sort of thing tha happens when you quote articles from Free Republic.

While Freep might be worthless as a news source though, I highly suggest going and reading the comments on contentious issues if you're bored. The level of insanity on that board is just hilarious.

 

[jonks]

Hey, OP and his coterie, can we get a response, any response to this, other than attacking the source? Can you dispute any of this?

1) Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.

2) His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.

3) They bought their ?lavish house? sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.

4) Last year, the Frosts made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.

5) The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Hey, OP and his coterie, can we get a response, any response to this, other than attacking the source? Can you dispute any of this?

I posted my response already.

 

[jonks]

HOWEVER, the fact that the kid's parents can afford to send both of them to a $20k a year/each private school, have a home worth half a million, own their own apparently successful business and the property it operates from yet choose NOT to spend money on their own health care and go on the government dole through obvious income tax evasion tricks instead is loathsome.

Of course no one is bashing the kid, that's a strawman. But do you still find the family loathsome?

And I recall Bush & Co (sorry, it's on topic) bringing out dozens of "snowflake children" for photo ops when he vetoed the stem cell research bill. Any generalized statement about Dems using children is only fair if it is recognized all politicians do this.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Nice to see that the truth about this kid and his family has come out.

Using a 12 year old who goes to a $20,000 a year private school to fight for a program for the poor is rather pathetic.

the fact that he goes to a private school should really be a non-issue unless you have proof that he's not getting a scholarship, financial aid, or involved in some type of work study program.

A 12yr old in work study does not fly.

The other potential issues are not questions that people will ask.

The Dems made a poor choice in their example by not looking behind the curtain.

Seems like Republicans are the ones who made a poor choice of bashing this kid and his family without looking behind the curtain and instead making generalizations. Now there is going to be backpedaling, but I doubt there will be an apology.

Nobody is bashing the kid. Bashing the Dems for using the kid as an ideological shield? Absolutely...they've been hiding behind kids and using them as political props during this whole thing. Questioning the parent's decision to NOT purchase health insurance through the business that they own and run? Absolutely. Questioning news agencies that run stories stating that the Frost's employer doesn't provide insurance while neglecting to mention that they are their own employer? Absolutely.

Through all this, it has been neglected that the Frost's STILL qualify for S-CHIP under the administration plan of using the existing system, tweaking it to insure those that it is intended to receive the benefits receive the benefits, and increase funding 20%.

I feel bad for the kids in this because they are being used as political footballs.

That's not what you said earlier:

The accident that hurt these two kids is a shame and I feel bad for them and their families. HOWEVER, the fact that the kid's parents can afford to send both of them to a $20k a year/each private school, have a home worth half a million, own their own apparently successful business and the property it operates from yet choose NOT to spend money on their own health care and go on the government dole through obvious income tax evasion tricks instead is loathsome.

You lied that they could afford financial $40K per year for their kids school. They are on financial aid. Did you apologize? No. You called them tax cheats, with no proof. Did you apologize? No. Bottom line you smear first and ask questions later. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS FAMILY. Give it up.