Dems on outsourcing

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Sentinel
They will put this into effect, which will be paying people way over what the work is actually worth.

It could put businesses into bankruptcy, creating a worse economy than we have now.

But you Republicans claim it's the best Economy ever.

Make up your friggin minds, you can't have it both ways.

Read this one again. Maybe you'll get it right!

For some people it's just can't get much worse, or are you planning on letting them starve?

come again?

Many of these people are already getting welfare asistance. How much worse can it get for them unless we start letting them starve, freeze, etc. ?

If you are able to work and are on welfare you want to be on welfare. I'm sorry but you have to understand this is not a perfect society where everyone wants to work. Also, I find it hard to believe someone with a little motivation can?t get a job to pay them more than minimum wage.

LOL, not where I live. All kinds of people around here work for $8/hour or less and get crap for benifits. No reitrement and usually no health insurance. It's been this way since the "trickle down" economics of Reagan in the 80's. Apparently what little trickles down evaporates before it get's here. Between the illegal aliens and the out-sourcing we are artificially keeping the demand for labor down. In other words, labor has to compete, but not management.

I really don't care who goes broke. Misery loves company.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod

Originally posted by: HBalzer


If you are able to work and are on welfare you want to be on welfare. I'm sorry but you have to understand this is not a perfect society where everyone wants to work. Also, I find it hard to believe someone with a little motivation can?t get a job to pay them more than minimum wage.

Reality check:
It's very hard to find any job nowadays. Even myself, in which I'm proud to say has Computer Programming Experience, Computer Engineering Experience, Computer Networking experience with some college background, is having a hard time finding a job PERIOD! I can't even work at a simple job because I'm "over qualified". I can't work at a tech job because I don't have a bachleors or masters degree. I have equivlent experience, but with college tuition going up and up and jobs becoming more scarce to even pay for that tuition, it gets hard! What makes it funny is that I HAVE the experience!

Now, a person who doesn't have experience has even less of a chance than me! How can a person like you possibly know this? It's probably because you're already well-to-do and is looking from the outside, in.

I put myself through college and got a degree in computer science. By the time I graduated I had three job offers. While others complained they couldn?t find work. Was it cause my GPA was higher? No, a barely had a 3.0! Was it because I busted my ass looking for a job? Yes! If you would stop blaming everyone else and say it is up to me to find a job you would find one.

 

[Aisengard]

A good business only cares about one thing: the bottom line profit. Increasing productivity, making workers happier, making better products, this all goes towards maximising that bottom line.

Currently, Americans require a higher wage than the rest of the world simply because the standard of living here in America is that much higher than the rest of the world. I don't think you can blame companies for maximising their profit by getting the same productivity for a fraction of the cost overseas than what you'd get here in America.

Outsourcing is simply an adjustment of the American job market to the global one. This means that, yes, to get those higher wages you are going to have to earn them. Workers also need to adjust to the global job market in order to keep their wages, and convince the company that they are worth it. Unions help those workers keep their jobs (they hold companies morally accountable to their workers, gasp!), but there is only so much Unions are able to do. You gotta keep up your education for your whole life, or you're going to be left behind.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Unions can sometimes really really suck. Take the metro strike in NYC for an example of Unions gone crazy.

However, Unions can be and are very good for protecting the American worker. Unions are a big part the reason why our job market isn't like China's. All you anti-unioners cry out for capitalism and the destruction of socialism, but when you let corporations run amok, they create their own socialist society. Take a good, hard look at Walmart for example. They make huge profits, reason? They pay their workers next to nothing, and don't have those fancy programs like healthcare or, you know, fair wages.

Unions are bad for company profits, but good for the American people (most of the time).

Hey, everyone, take your pick.

I agree Unions aren't all bad. Without them we wouldn't have the health and safety regulations we do today. However, my point was unions are probably a big reason why American companies outsource and the democrats say they are going to get companies to stop outsourcing by creating more unions. Its crazy!

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
So you think that unions getting workers a wage that they can live on and not corporate board members making seven figure salaries and getting multi-million dollar severence packages is driving American companies into the ground?

What do you know....I get to quote myself and show evidence that the OP's opinions are just a tad off.

Mellon Financial Corp. said today it will take a $19.3 million pretax charge against first quarter earnings to account for $46.3 million in payments former Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Martin G. McGuinn is entitled to under his employment contract.

Let's see, how many union employees could you hire for $46.3 mill?

For the sake of argument, we will say a union employee will make $50k/yr. That means that, for $43.6M you could hire 872 unionized employees for one year or add 100 jobs to the community to spark economic growth as a whole for 8.72 years.

Yeah....those damned unions are really raping American companies and forcing them to outsource their jobs as a result of it, eh.

Who says any American can?t be the CEO of a company. I?m sure the CEO worked very hard to get where he is and you think he should only get what everyone else gets. Hmm, what does that sound like? It starts with a C. America is still the land of opportunity. If you are willing to take risks and work your butt off you can make it rich. I?ve seen an immigrant with nothing to start with start a company that is now worth millions. So stop complaining for handouts and start working for something better.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
How could any supposed "American" be opposed of American Workers? Why would one be for outsourced workers when the average American's paycheck is dropping like a rock? Is it true that there are such people who hate their own country so much that they have to blame unions for something they already wanted to happen in the first place?

First off your comment is so absurd I shouldn?t even respond to it.

I put myself through college working in a factory, I was poor I had a family with little to eat.

I worked hard to advance myself while others slacked off and told me don?t work too hard you?ll take away all our work. It?s those people that hate America. People that think America owes them a job instead of them working for one. You want to punish the people that have advanced themselves and reward the people that want to do just enough to get a paycheck.

So sad. You once were in the poor class and have chosen to forget what it was like.

You also believe that the situation is exactly the same as it was for you when you were a kid.

That is where you are dead wrong and so sad.

Shakes head at your hypocracy and hatred for America.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
I don't think you can blame companies for maximising their profit by getting the same productivity for a fraction of the cost overseas than what you'd get here in America.

I agree with the sentiments of your post and the logic behind it. However, this line is troublesome in the sense that, in regards to the OT, Pelosi isn't talking about killing corporations by making outsourcing illegal.

Hell, she doesn't say anything at all about it. What she says, and I agree with her 1000%, is that any company that IS doing that, doesn't deserve and shouldn't receive governmental funding.

I'm not sure if you meant this in regards to Pelosi's comments or just in general (which is they way that I have taken it from the content of the entire post) but I am addressing your point only in regards to Pelosi's statements in the OP.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
How could any supposed "American" be opposed of American Workers? Why would one be for outsourced workers when the average American's paycheck is dropping like a rock? Is it true that there are such people who hate their own country so much that they have to blame unions for something they already wanted to happen in the first place?

First off your comment is so absurd I shouldn?t even respond to it.

I put myself through college working in a factory, I was poor I had a family with little to eat.

I worked hard to advance myself while others slacked off and told me don?t work too hard you?ll take away all our work. It?s those people that hate America. People that think America owes them a job instead of them working for one. You want to punish the people that have advanced themselves and reward the people that want to do just enough to get a paycheck.

So sad. You once were in the poor class and have chosen to forget what it was like.

You also believe that the situation is exactly the same as it was for you when you were a kid.

That is where you are dead wrong and so sad.

Shakes head at your hypocracy and hatred for America.

Let?s see I worked hard to become a contributing member of society

You only do the minimum and complain about how unfair life is

And yet I am the one who hates America. I guess in your twisted world that makes sense.

 

[conjur]

CNSNews???

:laugh: :laugh:



That site is about as worthwhile as iliketowastemytime.com

 

[EatSpam]

:thumbsup: It may not be the best way to do things, but at least someone is sticking up for Joe Middle Class.

Yes, I know "Outsourcing GOOD!", "Rising tides, boats, faith" blah blah blah, but sometimes its good to fight for what you want and not let faith based economics control your family's welfare.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
How could any supposed "American" be opposed of American Workers? Why would one be for outsourced workers when the average American's paycheck is dropping like a rock? Is it true that there are such people who hate their own country so much that they have to blame unions for something they already wanted to happen in the first place?

There's a certain percentage of Americans who believe that the way to become rich is to suck up to the rich and give them whatever they want in the hopes that some of the wealth will tickle on them. Well, that trickle ain't money, that's for sure.

 

[DotheDamnTHing]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod
How could any supposed "American" be opposed of American Workers? Why would one be for outsourced workers when the average American's paycheck is dropping like a rock? Is it true that there are such people who hate their own country so much that they have to blame unions for something they already wanted to happen in the first place?

There's a certain percentage of Americans who believe that the way to become rich is to suck up to the rich and give them whatever they want in the hopes that some of the wealth will tickle on them. Well, that trickle ain't money, that's for sure.

That trickle is a false consciousness fueled by mindless materialism

 

[sumyungai]

Dems want to raise the minimum wage, but wouldn't that cause inflation? If the minimum wage worker makes a higher minimum wage and prices rise, what does that solve?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: sumyungai
Dems want to raise the minimum wage, but wouldn't that cause inflation? If the minimum wage worker makes a higher minimum wage and prices rise, what does that solve?

That's a wholly debunked piece of propaganda.


Happy reading:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

 

[sumyungai]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai
Dems want to raise the minimum wage, but wouldn't that cause inflation? If the minimum wage worker makes a higher minimum wage and prices rise, what does that solve?

That's a wholly debunked piece of propaganda.


Happy reading:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

Ok, now think for a second. Lets put things into the extremes to see things easier. If I were to make the minimum wage at a million dollars an hour. Everyone has atleast a million dollars. Everyone can afford BMW M3. This creates higher demand on that product. Wouldn't a company raise the price of said product to offset demand until it levels off?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai
Dems want to raise the minimum wage, but wouldn't that cause inflation? If the minimum wage worker makes a higher minimum wage and prices rise, what does that solve?

That's a wholly debunked piece of propaganda.


Happy reading:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

Ok, now think for a second. Lets put things into the extremes to see things easier. If I were to make the minimum wage at a million dollars an hour. Everyone has atleast a million dollars. Everyone can afford BMW M3. This creates higher demand on that product. Wouldn't a company raise the price of said product to offset demand until it levels off?

Stop with the bullsh*t logical fallacies and READ THE DAMN ARTICLES at the link above.

Don't post until tomorrow after you've READ THEM THOROUGHLY.

Spreading your Limbaught ignorance is doing you no good.

 

[piasabird]

So did workers do better and make more money under Bush or under Clinton?

Imagine what it cost to buy a house
Under Clinton?
Under Bush?

Kind of hard to say one way or the other. . .

I dont believe Democrates did any better than Republicans.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai
Dems want to raise the minimum wage, but wouldn't that cause inflation? If the minimum wage worker makes a higher minimum wage and prices rise, what does that solve?

That's a wholly debunked piece of propaganda.


Happy reading:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

That link says nothing about minimum wage not causing inflation and to believe it doesn?t is unreasonable.

My favorite part of the link is:
New economic models that look specifically at low-wage labor markets help explain why there is little evidence of job loss associated with minimum wage increases. These models recognize that employers may be able to absorb some of the costs of a wage increase through higher productivity, lower recruiting and training costs, decreased absenteeism, and increased worker morale.
Who are they kidding the stupidity in that one paragraph proves the whole site to be irrelevant. Do they think increasing the minimum wage will magically increase moral, and productivity or decrease absenteeism? It won?t because hey if they loose that job they can go get another one next store. Lower recruiting and training costs these costs will be higher because the person doing the training will be getting more money.

The people who really suffer are the ones who have worked their way up from minimum wage and are making $7 an hour you think the employer is going to say hey minimum wage increased and my overhead just went through the roof but I am going to give everyone an equal raise. Who are you kidding!

What ever happened to working for advancement? The majority of workers at fast food joints don?t deserve more money. Just last week I went to Wendy?s and the lady at the drive through was talking on the cell phone while taking orders. I?m sure Wendy?s or any other company would gladly pay $7+ an hour for a reliable competent employee.

I would consider a minimum wage increase for employees that have held the job for 6 months. That would keep training cost down and motivate people to work hard to keep a job. You might say yea but the companies would just fire them before 6 months but if you knew anything about running a business you would know that would be stupid for them.

I?m done ranting and this has nothing to do with Dem. or Rep. just plain common sense.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: sumyungai
Dems want to raise the minimum wage, but wouldn't that cause inflation? If the minimum wage worker makes a higher minimum wage and prices rise, what does that solve?

That's a wholly debunked piece of propaganda.


Happy reading:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

Ok, now think for a second. Lets put things into the extremes to see things easier. If I were to make the minimum wage at a million dollars an hour. Everyone has atleast a million dollars. Everyone can afford BMW M3. This creates higher demand on that product. Wouldn't a company raise the price of said product to offset demand until it levels off?

Stop with the bullsh*t logical fallacies and READ THE DAMN ARTICLES at the link above.

Don't post until tomorrow after you've READ THEM THOROUGHLY.

Spreading your Limbaught ignorance is doing you no good.

Conjur I have to wonder if you read the article yourself. Is it merely coincidence that it is one of the first articles to pop up from a Google search? If your idea of arguing issues is pulling up the first article that looks to fit your needs on a search engine and posting it then no wonder you are so far off. Then sumyungai post and you fire back with crap about Limbaugh ignorance. Give me a break.

Conjur don't come back until you can think without google.

 

[conjur]

I'm very well-versed in the articles at EPI. I've referred to them many times in the past and will continue to do so.

Trouble is, showing articles like that is useless to Limbaughts like yourself who prefer to be told what their opinion is.

 

[HBalzer]

Originally posted by: conjur
I'm very well-versed in the articles at EPI. I've referred to them many times in the past and will continue to do so.

Trouble is, showing articles like that is useless to Limbaughts like yourself who prefer to be told what their opinion is.

Who would have thought your only retort is calling me a Limbaught?

Please point me to the part in the article that says raising the minimum wage has no effect on inflation

 

[Jhhnn]

The whole notion that unions are fueling outsourcing is absurd. Chinese and Indian workers get by on such low wages and benefits that even American minimum wage no benefits workers can't compete. Even well-educated professionals can't compete against their Indian counterparts in exportable jobs. Chinese consumer goods, for example, are often ridiculously cheap- so much so that American energy costs alone preclude competition against them...

The whole phenomenon is much more closely tied to the exchange rate, and to the extreme measures used to support the false high valuation of the dollar. So long as the Bush Admin and Repub congress are willing to finance the exportation of American jobs with tax cuts for the wealthy and tax breaks to outsourcers, the trend will continue. You can't open a new factory in China for free- it takes capital. And so long as they're willing to create huge federal deficits to soak up overseas dollars, the false high valuation of the dollar will continue to provide the incentive to outsource...

Not to mention that very low tax rates on huge incomes actively encourage looting and greed. With a properly progressive tax structure, the financial elite is faced with a choice- they can pay employees more, invest more in their companies, or pay more in taxes, because they can't keep it all. Under the current tax system, yes, they can virtually keep it all, paying only the 15% capital gains rate on huge incomes...

Yeh, sure, the value of the dollar will self-correct, eventually, but not in a gradual way. Current efforts to stretch things to the breaking point will accomplish exactly that...

 

[HBalzer]

www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/reg18n1c.html

well that proves it no one can argue with me or they are they are a limbaught!

 

[conjur]

Here's but one:
http://www.responsiblewealth.org/living_wage/qanda.html

Q. Won't forcing businesses to pay a living wage cause inflation and inhibit economic growth?

Three studies on existing living wage ordinances found early evidence that relatively little of the extra cost in labor has been passed on to consumers or the cities with whom they contract. The studies suggest that companies are absorbing the higher wages or finding ways to offset them (Uchitelle, 1999).

Higher wages may actually help firms reduce turnover and fill vacancies, according to some economists, and can also lead to greater worker productivity by improving morale and overall job satisfaction. These benefits generate efficiency gains that could allow firms to absorb the increase in labor costs (Card and Krueger, 1999).

Some studies have examined the potential inflationary aspects of minimum wage increases. An Oregon Center for Public Policy study of the impact of the 1997 and 1998 minimum wage increases on the Oregon restaurant industry found that inflation of restaurant meal prices matched general price increases in the rest of the economy and was less than general food and beverage price inflation. In another study, economists found that New Jersey?s 1992 minimum wage increase led to modestly increased prices of restaurant meals, but there was no evidence that prices rose faster among retail stores that had the greatest proportion of minimum wage workers (Card and Krueger, 1999).

The Baltimore living wage law increased the aggregate cost to the city by 1.2%, less than the cost of inflation. The inflation-adjusted cost to Baltimore of the 26 living wage contracts studied actually declined slightly despite the wage hikes, according to a 1999 study by the Economic Policy Institute. These findings are consistent with those of the Preamble Center study, which found a decline of 2.4% in inflation-adjusted contract prices after the first year of the Baltimore living wage ordinance. The Preamble Center study suggested that the decline in overall costs might be attributed to efficiency gains at higher wages, and to the competitive pressures of the bidding market, which discouraged contractors from inflating their prices.

But, I wouldn't expect someone that actually linked to CNSNews.com to try and think for themselves.



Here's another bolstering the Card and Krueger studies:
http://www.epinet.org/briefingpapers/minimumw_bp_1996.pdf

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: piasabird
So did workers do better and make more money under Bush or under Clinton?

Imagine what it cost to buy a house
Under Clinton?
Under Bush?

Kind of hard to say one way or the other. . .

I dont believe Democrates did any better than Republicans.

Did you factor in todays deficit?