Dems near accord on health care bill

[Mxylplyx]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100218/D9DUO7L00.html

I fully support this. Republicans have gambled that full blown obstruction is the way to get back into power, and unfortunately they are right, which is why nothing ever gets done in Washington. Until this political gridlock ends, the party in control needs to be willing to do whatever is necessary to get a bill through with a simple majority vote, and the maybe if it's inevitable the bill will be passed, the minority party would feel it best to participate so some of their ideas make it into the bill. The filibuster needs to end, now.

Health care reform, and universal coverage is something that Americans dont know that they want until they find themselves needing it. Luckily I have never faced losing it, though I'm only 29. We just had a 3rd round of layoffs here where I work, and with all the problems these former employees are about to face, losing health coverage for themselves and/or their families is just too much piled on an already periled situation, particularly if they have sick family members that require access to the healthcare system. If it werent for the cobra subsidy, our family health insurance would be over 1K a month. Now how the hell is someone thats been laid off, with their paltry unemployment compensation, supposed to afford that? Healthcare spending in this country is out of control, and it needs to be reigned in. If that means some celebrity neurosurgeon has to make a few million less a year, or I have to wait a few months instead of a few days for a hip replacement, then so be it.

 

[PokerGuy]

Healthcare spending in this country is out of control, and it needs to be reigned in.

There is nothing in the bill that will fix that problem, this bill is only meant to increase the scope of government and push socialism. Nothing more. It needs to be opposed by any means needed, including strict obstructionism.

 

[dphantom]

or I have to wait a few months ins... me it is now ok for me to get the treatment.

 

[woolfe9999]

That article mentions the use of reconciliation. I am still unclear how they can get the entire bill through that way. I wonder if it is a bluff to get more concessions out of the repubs at the 2/25 summit.

- wolf

 

[Genx87]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100218/D9DUO7L00.html

I fully support this. Republicans have gambled that full blown obstruction is the way to get back into power, and unfortunately they are right, which is why nothing ever gets done in Washington. Until this political gridlock ends, the party in control needs to be willing to do whatever is necessary to get a bill through with a simple majority vote, and the maybe if it's inevitable the bill will be passed, the minority party would feel it best to participate so some of their ideas make it into the bill. The filibuster needs to end, now.

Health care reform, and universal coverage is something that Americans dont know that they want until they find themselves needing it. Luckily I have never faced losing it, though I'm only 29. We just had a 3rd round of layoffs here where I work, and with all the problems these former employees are about to face, losing health coverage for themselves and/or their families is just too much piled on an already periled situation, particularly if they have sick family members that require access to the healthcare system. If it werent for the cobra subsidy, our family health insurance would be over 1K a month. Now how the hell is someone thats been laid off, with their paltry unemployment compensation, supposed to afford that? Healthcare spending in this country is out of control, and it needs to be reigned in. If that means some celebrity neurosurgeon has to make a few million less a year, or I have to wait a few months instead of a few days for a hip replacement, then so be it.

And yet TARP, The Iraq War, The Patriot Act, two Stimulus bills since 2008, Hate Crimes bill, Prescription drug bill, Make Home Affordable Act, No child left behind act, multiple federal budgets, and countless other things get through in the last few years. Perhaps the problem isnt gridlock as much as the health bill is a genuine piece of shit.

 

[CPA]

<q>Health care reform, and universal coverage is something that Americans dont know that they want until they find themselves needing it</q>

let's replace Health care reform with Mortgage reform or Auto loan reform or any other myriad of things that Americans don't know that they want until they find themselves needing it. OP, you make me sick.


Also OP why should we pay anyone to do any surgery. Just force surgeons to work on your hip. If they refuse, jail them.

 

[spidey07]

If they pull this off Repubs will enjoy a super majority in the house and senate. The people have flatly rejected it and yet washington still pushes.

 

[CPA]

That article mentions the use of reconciliation. I am still unclear how they can get the entire bill through that way. I wonder if it is a bluff to get more concessions out of the repubs at the 2/25 summit.

- wolf

They can't, they can only get certain spending measures through, and with the Dems spending is all that matters.

 

[werepossum]

Yet Obama is still planning to sit down with Republicans and work on health care "from scratch". So is Obama being duplicitous and using these meetings only as cover, or are Pelosi and Reid driving over him? This one of those places where Obama is going to look either weak or dishonest no matter what his intentions and whether he actually deserves either (or both) charge.

 

[JohnnyGage]

This is so telling. I don't want my mom or dad or even me to wait for a hip replacement. I want service when I want it, not when some governemnt agency tells me it is now ok for me to get the treatment.

It's an easy thing to say when you don't need one, but when you do and have trouble walking, going up stairs, and in pain it would be a different story.

 

[woolfe9999]

Yet Obama is still planning to sit down with Republicans and work on health care "from scratch". So is Obama being duplicitous and using these meetings only as cover, or are Pelosi and Reid driving over him? This one of those places where Obama is going to look either weak or dishonest no matter what his intentions and whether he actually deserves either (or both) charge.

I don't think so. The dems are going to post this on the web prior to their summit meeting with the repubs. Seems pretty much out in the open to me. They are just saying, look, we're not going to take our present bill off the table, in case there is no bi-partisan compromize. It would be foolish for them to do otherwise, because then they would be taking it on faith that the two parties can come up with a compromize bill.

Look to how the respective parties conduct themselves on 2/25. If the dems basically shoot down every repub proposal, then it's a dog and pony show and you're right. If they make significant and major concessions and the repubs shoot everything down, then you're wrong, and it will be clear that keeping the current bill as an option was the only way to play it. Finally, in the unlikely event the parties do form a compromize bill, it won't matter one way or the other.

I still don't know how they can get their bill through a reconciliation process. I wonder if this is an implicit threat of using the nuclear option (to kill the fillibuster), which they may or may not carry out.

- wolf

 

[theeedude]

Are Democrats going to use democracy to implement this? Outrageous?

 

[werepossum]

It's an easy thing to say when you don't need one, but when you do and have trouble walking, going up stairs, and in pain it would be a different story.

Of course, on the flip side of the issue a hip replacement is probably one of the things you just can't get if you have no insurance and no money. I fear though that under single payer hip replacements will become very limited, so that most who can get them today under insurance or Medicare/Medicaid won't be able to get them under a federalized single payer system.

Under reconciliation, it's my understanding that if the House passes the exact same bill passed in the Senate then no additional vote is required in the Senate, meaning the bill could be sent to the President without revisiting the Senate.

 

[woolfe9999]

Under reconciliation, it's my understanding that if the House passes the exact same bill passed in the Senate then no additional vote is required in the Senate, meaning the bill could be sent to the President without revisiting the Senate.

Yes, they can do that, but they don't have enough votes in the House to pass the Senate bill as is, and this article stresses that the bill we will see on Monday is a blending of the House and Senate bills.

The only thing I can think of is that the House passes the Senate version as is, then they pass a second bill that immediately modifies the first - by changing ts tax provisions perhaps - by way of reconciliation (i.e. 51 votes) in the Senate.

- wolf

 

[Carmen813]

Of course, on the flip side of the issue a hip replacement is probably one of the things you just can't get if you have no insurance and no money. I fear though that under single payer hip replacements will become very limited, so that most who can get them today under insurance or Medicare/Medicaid won't be able to get them under a federalized single payer system.

Under reconciliation, it's my understanding that if the House passes the exact same bill passed in the Senate then no additional vote is required in the Senate, meaning the bill could be sent to the President without revisiting the Senate.

Technically the House could pass the Senate bill as it is, without the Senate ever casting another vote. The House would then create a new bill to fix the flaws in the original Senate bill. This new bill would use reconciliation to pass the Senate. Things like the Louisiana Purchase/Cornhusker Kickback (which is really what a lot of MA voters were against) would be removed via reconciliation in this second bill. It's also possible that Tort reform may be voted on, or reinstatement of the public option. Reconciliation can basically be used for anything related to budget/deficit.

 

[brblx]

If they pull this off Repubs will enjoy a super majority in the house and senate. The people have flatly rejected it and yet washington still pushes.

dull and under-educated fox news viewers != 'the people.'

american idol also has a large following, but that doesn't mean we should govern based on what simon cowell thinks.

 

[Fear No Evil]

dull and under-educated fox news viewers != 'the people.'

american idol also has a large following, but that doesn't mean we should govern based on what simon cowell thinks.

Of course not, Simon Cowell is not a United States citizen.. But just calling the 50+ percent of Americans who think this is a bad idea stupid an uneducated.. it will speed up the Republican takeover of congress.

 

[spidey07]

dull and under-educated fox news viewers != 'the people.'

american idol also has a large following, but that doesn't mean we should govern based on what simon cowell thinks.

Every poll from every source say Americans do not support the current bills or ideas and yet Obama keeps pushing it, against the will of the people.

Why do you think that is? Why do you think Scott Brown was elected, in massachusetts? Because people are tired of the obama administration and congress forcing laws, "solutions" down peoples throats they don't want.

-edit-
I also remember months ago of people warning that Obama/congress would try to force this measure through one of the budgets that were passed, a back door way of getting it. Looks like those people were right, that's exactly what he's doing. If they do that november is going to be a huge turnaround.

 

[soccerballtux]

If they pull this off Repubs will enjoy a super majority in the house and senate. The people have flatly rejected it and yet washington still pushes.

dull and under-educated fox news viewers != 'the people.'

american idol also has a large following, but that doesn't mean we should govern based on what simon cowell thinks.

hm, that must be why a Republican won by a landslide in a typically-staunchly-democrat state, Massachusetts.

 

[werepossum]

Technically the House could pass the Senate bill as it is, without the Senate ever casting another vote. The House would then create a new bill to fix the flaws in the original Senate bill. This new bill would use reconciliation to pass the Senate. Things like the Louisiana Purchase/Cornhusker Kickback (which is really what a lot of MA voters were against) would be removed via reconciliation in this second bill. It's also possible that Tort reform may be voted on, or reinstatement of the public option. Reconciliation can basically be used for anything related to budget/deficit.

Yes, they can do that, but they don't have enough votes in the House to pass the Senate bill as is, and this article stresses that the bill we will see on Monday is a blending of the House and Senate bills.

The only thing I can think of is that the House passes the Senate version as is, then they pass a second bill that immediately modifies the first - by changing ts tax provisions perhaps - by way of reconciliation (i.e. 51 votes) in the Senate.

- wolf

If they do this via reconciliation, it's going to be difficult for even the mainstream media to put lipstick on that pig. In that case the Republicans would certainly win the House and most likely the Senate. The libs might well think the price is worth it to get government that much more empowered, but I'd be surprised if they can muster fifty votes in the Senate or a majority in the House. Most politicians, no matter how ideological at heart, have as their first priority gaining re-election if not advancement.

This whole debate and its scandalous and unpopular legislative process may well propel Scott Brown into the White House in 2012.

 

[Carmen813]

If they do this via reconciliation, it's going to be difficult for even the mainstream media to put lipstick on that pig. In that case the Republicans would certainly win the House and most likely the Senate. The libs might well think the price is worth it to get government that much more empowered, but I'd be surprised if they can muster fifty votes in the Senate or a majority in the House. Most politicians, no matter how ideological at heart, have as their first priority gaining re-election if not advancement.

This whole debate and its scandalous and unpopular legislative process may well propel Scott Brown into the White House in 2012.

I sincerely doubt it would change the situation significantly, if at all. In fact I think it would probably benefit Democrats in the House and Senate because public perception is that they haven't done "anything." It would also motivate the base, health care reform was the #1 issue for Democrats during the 2008 primaries.

 

[Hacp]

The biggest issue here is forcing people to buy health insurance to increase the risk pool. Many healthy people don't want to pay for insurance but they'll be forced to buy it.

But no, the government will subsidize people! Where does that money come from? We borrow it from China and US citizens 30 years into the future will need to pay for it.

Second issue here is that you're giving free health insurance to people who don't deserve it. If people want health insurance PAY FOR IT! If I want a burger from Burger King, I don't just walk in take the burger from the shelf. I spend money to pay for the burger. Otherwise, its called stealing.

 

[woolfe9999]

If they do this via reconciliation, it's going to be difficult for even the mainstream media to put lipstick on that pig. In that case the Republicans would certainly win the House and most likely the Senate. The libs might well think the price is worth it to get government that much more empowered, but I'd be surprised if they can muster fifty votes in the Senate or a majority in the House. Most politicians, no matter how ideological at heart, have as their first priority gaining re-election if not advancement.

This whole debate and its scandalous and unpopular legislative process may well propel Scott Brown into the White House in 2012.

Well, we are on opposite sides regarding the public benefit of this particular piece of legislation, so it is difficult to respond to this because it is based on certain assumptions I disagree with.

I do agree that passing the bill by way of reconciliation will not be politically popular. It may cost the dems some additional seats. Hard to say. The dems are going to lose a lot of seats either way.

Ideally, there will be a bi-partisan bill. However, I don't think that is going to happen.

- wolf

 

[dmcowen674]

Whatever way pisses off Republicans the most is the best plan.

 

[BoberFett]

Whatever way pisses off Republicans the most is the best plan.

Dave McOwen: Hating America Since 2000