Dems lose in 'Mail in Ballot' election. So why is Trump so against mail in ballots?

[K1052]

Indeed. But it would be funny if it’s shown that he received most of his votes by mail in than in person.

The facts wouldn't matter. He could say that the Democrats got illegal votes from planet Vulcan and 30% of the country would believe him. Those are his targets for post election grifting.

 

[Greenman]

Not exactly. The GOP was shown to have employed ballot harvesting as fraud in one N Carolina district.

And you think that's the only time it's been abused? A system with little control, placed in the hands of people with an agenda, who work for a specific political group?

 

[Commodus]

Do you think ballot harvesting is voter fraud?

What IronWing said.

Also, this is dancing around the point, which is that voter fraud by mail isn't widespread and can be prevented. And that boomerang, as always, is relying on fundamentally dishonest sources with a malicious agenda to push.

 

[Greenman]

What IronWing said.

Also, this is dancing around the point, which is that voter fraud by mail isn't widespread and can be prevented. And that boomerang, as always, is relying on fundamentally dishonest sources with a malicious agenda to push.

Fair enough. How can fraud be prevented in vote by mail? I can think of a couple of simple checks that would weed out most 'casual" cheating, but a small group with some funds and at least one brain would be hard to stop.
To be clear, I'm not against the idea, but I am suspicious of the implantation.

 

[zinfamous]

The word for the day kids is, "insufferable". Attack the messenger, attack the source. It worked in sixth grade. Some kids just never grow up.

"Here guys, I found this information from a multiple-verified source of Russian agitprop. Why don't you take it seriously and instead attack me and the known propaganda? liberal cucks!"

Just listen to yourself, old man.

 

[Jhhnn]

And you think that's the only time it's been abused? A system with little control, placed in the hands of people with an agenda, who work for a specific political group?

You mean Republicans, right? Vote by mail has shown itself to be an honest & highly fraud resistant method everywhere it has been implemented. Mere fact.

 

[Thump553]

A look at actual reality (not Trumpian view) brings up several points
- for years, even decades, the GOP has focused long and hard on absentee voting, and is heads and shoulders above the Dems in working the absentee vote
-a lot of seniors do, in fact, use the absentee ballot system-either because of travel or health reasons-and that will of course go way, way up during COVID. --Both my parents spent their last few months in nursing homes, and both mentioned to me GOP strangers canvassing their nursing home for absentee voter opportunities.

I think the principle reason Donnie is pushing this issue is to have something to blame his loss on remember. He did the same thing in 2016-the last week or two he constantly ranted about how the system was fixed.

 

[Jhhnn]

Fair enough. How can fraud be prevented in vote by mail? I can think of a couple of simple checks that would weed out most 'casual" cheating, but a small group with some funds and at least one brain would be hard to stop.
To be clear, I'm not against the idea, but I am suspicious of the implantation.

Oh, please. You have absolutely no idea what security measures are used in vote by mail systems. None whatsoever. You speculate on the basis of ignorance & suspicion.

 

[Greenman]

Oh, please. You have absolutely no idea what security measures are used in vote by mail systems. None whatsoever. You speculate on the basis of ignorance & suspicion.

I speculate on the near certainty that if the system can be cheated, it will be cheated. People cheat to achieve their goals, be they political, monetary, or romantic. When I see a political group decide that we need to alter the way elections are decided, I automatically assume nefarious intentions. It's a safe bet.

 

[dawp]

"Here guys, I found this information from a multiple-verified source of Russian agitprop. Why don't you take it seriously and instead attack me and the known propaganda? liberal cucks!"

Just listen to yourself, old man.

boomerang is an appropriate name for him as his posts have a tendency to come back and nail him in the back of his head.

 

[zinfamous]

I speculate on the near certainty that if the system can be cheated, it will be cheated. People cheat to achieve their goals, be they political, monetary, or romantic. When I see a political group decide that we need to alter the way elections are decided, I automatically assume nefarious intentions. It's a safe bet.

I think this post lies at the root of differences between ave left and right wingers; how we approach the world from our general biases.

This is how you see humanity, therefore it is no other way. But you use this to make assumptions about everything--I think this way, therefore those people obviously think this way. I must keep cheating because of course they will!

Perhaps, if you start to consider that you might be wrong about this, we could come to more common, useful discussions among ourselves?

I know this very sentiment has been posted here many times before, but I think we should just keep repeating it.

I mean, even when the actual data that is produced to measure election cheating shows that by-and-large, republicans cheat at a greater rate, almost to teh exclusion of any other political party--even when republicans run their own studies--the assumption still exists that, somehow, it must be done because obviously the other party is doing it!

The way I tend to approach the world is that, after absorbing the data that only ever seems to contradict my prejudices, I start to reexamine my prejudices. Admittedly, this is a difficult thing to do.

 

[cytg111]

Do you think ballot harvesting is voter fraud?

Hopefully criminal?

 

[cytg111]

And you think that's the only time it's been abused? A system with little control, placed in the hands of people with an agenda, who work for a specific political group?

But all that effort were going to put into purging rolls... and that effort we already put into closing down polling stations... it will have been for naught if “they” can just mail it in? Its almost as bad as if voting day was a national holiday! Its an obvious powergrab by the dems

 

[Commodus]

Fair enough. How can fraud be prevented in vote by mail? I can think of a couple of simple checks that would weed out most 'casual" cheating, but a small group with some funds and at least one brain would be hard to stop.
To be clear, I'm not against the idea, but I am suspicious of the implantation.

You'd definitely need independent people checking the ballots and their origins. There should also be as much transparency as possible while protecting the privacy of voters, such as carefully managed audits.

I also look at this pragmatically. Voter fraud is difficult to completely stop, but it historically hasn't occurred in large enough numbers to outweigh the costs of disenfranchising many, many more people in the process. Politicians who want to block mail-in ballots do so because they believe it will suppress votes against them, not because they have legitimate concerns about fraud.

 

[K1052]

I speculate on the near certainty that if the system can be cheated, it will be cheated. People cheat to achieve their goals, be they political, monetary, or romantic. When I see a political group decide that we need to alter the way elections are decided, I automatically assume nefarious intentions. It's a safe bet.

30 states have no-excuse mail voting. 5 states conduct all elections by mail. Absentee voting is at least as old as the Civil fucking War. No investigation of mail voting has turned up anything but a totally negligible amount of fraud.

Be suspicious when people like the president (who also votes by mail in FL) make totally bullshit claims which should not be treated with even the smallest amount of credulity. Or don't I guess if you swing that way.

 

[K1052]

But all that effort were going to put into purging rolls... and that effort we already put into closing down polling stations... it will have been for naught if “they” can just mail it in? Its almost as bad as if voting day was a national holiday! Its an obvious powergrab by the dems

I have yet to hear a good justification for roll purging simply based on a person not voting in an arbitrary number of recent elections. I mean do your 2A rights lapse if you don't fire a gun yearly?

 

[Jhhnn]

I speculate on the near certainty that if the system can be cheated, it will be cheated. People cheat to achieve their goals, be they political, monetary, or romantic. When I see a political group decide that we need to alter the way elections are decided, I automatically assume nefarious intentions. It's a safe bet.

That's ridiculous. The GOP stronghold of Utah votes by mail. Huge percentages of people already vote absentee in states that allow it. Trump is a fool to oppose it during the pandemic by spreading fear & outright lies.

Anybody who buys into it is equally foolish. The vote by mail systems in states that use them have withstood enormous scrutiny and emerged with honest integrity intact. Mere truth. Deal with it.

 

[blackangst1]

Every audit ever done of mail voting found negligible levels of fraud, including the ones Republicans have done in their own states.

In states like PA the Trump campaign is waging a huge campaign to get Republicans to request mail ballots. The only reason Trump is pushing this is insurance if he loses the election he'll claim that he didn't lose but was cheated instead.

Not sure why you would even post this in reply. Just throwing in random things?

 

[hal2kilo]

A look at actual reality (not Trumpian view) brings up several points
- for years, even decades, the GOP has focused long and hard on absentee voting, and is heads and shoulders above the Dems in working the absentee vote
-a lot of seniors do, in fact, use the absentee ballot system-either because of travel or health reasons-and that will of course go way, way up during COVID. --Both my parents spent their last few months in nursing homes, and both mentioned to me GOP strangers canvassing their nursing home for absentee voter opportunities.

I think the principle reason Donnie is pushing this issue is to have something to blame his loss on remember. He did the same thing in 2016-the last week or two he constantly ranted about how the system was fixed.

It unbelievably hypocritical and selectively endorsed.

 

[VRAMdemon]

The children are stealing all the ballots!

Trump Makes Baseless Claim About Children Stealing Vote-By-Mail Ballots

The president has been railing against voting by mail, often spreading misinformation, as states seek to expand its use amid the coronavirus pandemic.

www.huffpost.com

So when [Newsom] sends out 28 million ballots in all the mailboxes, and kids go and they raid the mailboxes, and they hand them to people that are signing the ballots down the end of the street, which is happening. They grab the ballots,” Trump said, without evidence. “You don’t think that happens? There’s ballot harvesting.”

Huh?.

 

[cytg111]

The children are stealing all the ballots!

Trump Makes Baseless Claim About Children Stealing Vote-By-Mail Ballots

The president has been railing against voting by mail, often spreading misinformation, as states seek to expand its use amid the coronavirus pandemic.

www.huffpost.com

Huh?.

Devin Nunes : We have to Ballot Harvest, its the only way for us to win.
Its like he think they are entitled to the seat cause its traditionally a Republican seat. So cheating required.

Why is ballot harvesting legal in Cali?

 

[VRAMdemon]

Devin Nunes : We have to Ballot Harvest, its the only way for us to win.
Its like he think they are entitled to the seat cause its traditionally a Republican seat. So cheating required.

Why is ballot harvesting legal in Cali?

We should be suspicious that Trump has the idea in his head that people go around collecting mail-in ballots and writing in the names of the people they want to have elected. I have a hard time believing Trump has anything in his head that passes for abstract knowledge. If he knows what ballot harvesting is, it's because somebody has been telling him how it works.

 

[cytg111]

We should be suspicious that Trump has the idea in his head that people go around collecting mail-in ballots and writing in the names of the people they want to have elected. I have a hard time believing Trump has anything in his head that passes for abstract knowledge. If he knows what ballot harvesting is, it's because somebody has been telling him how it works.

Yea, its the "whatever Trump is accusing someone else of doing he is 90% doing it himself".

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Republicans win back California House seat they lost in 2018 after Democrat concedes | CNN Politics

Republicans have won back a California US House seat they had lost in the 2018 midterms, flipping it from blue to red in a high-profile victory

edition.cnn.com

US House seat in California was occupied by a Dem.
She resigned because she had an affair with staffer.
Special election was held earlier this month (May) where it was mostly mail in votes because of pandemic.

Repub won.

So why is Trump so against mail in ballots?

Easy. The subject riles up his base.

Anything that riles up his base (immigration, economy, etc...) is what he is shooting for.

 

[Jhhnn]

Devin Nunes : We have to Ballot Harvest, its the only way for us to win.
Its like he think they are entitled to the seat cause its traditionally a Republican seat. So cheating required.

Why is ballot harvesting legal in Cali?

Meh. It's a red herring, orthogonal to the issue of universal vote by mail.