Dems introduce HR Bill 5717 severely attacking 2nd Amendment rights

[Paladin3]

If you can’t debate canned replies then perhaps it’s you who actually can’t debate.

Try again, nutter.

Pot, kettle, black. Your turn, go!

 

[Moonbeam]

As a side note, our forefathers did ban guns and heavily regulated them. Some states didn’t even allow for guns in the home to be loaded let alone have black powder on the premises.

Interesting. Life is just chuck full of shit that doesn't match up with my conditioning.

 

[Paladin3]

So if the American people vote for representatives that do just that are you implying that you’ll leave the country? Sounds like a win to me.

If the executive and legislative branches agree then I'm either stuck with it or have to move. I don't see myself moving out of the U.S. And I'm not going all sovereign citizen either. But you speak of that which has not passed. Will you move if it fails to?

 

[Paladin3]

Well, some are blaming the recent forums slow down on me, and I haven't even perused muzzleloadingforum.com yet today, so gotta go.

 

[Moonbeam]

All I ask is that you let me be the judge of what is reasonable. It's something I know instantly in my gut. It always lines right up with what my ego wants and I love my guns. And my rights are sacred, the gift of patriots' blood.

You liked this post. I think that person has a lot to unlearn.

 

[Commodus]

Even though I feel some restrictions are ok. This illustrates the problem.
View attachment 18735

That's an inherently flawed and invalid argument.

It assumes that the realities of gun ownership, technology and society are set in stone, and that the only acceptable stance on gun rights is an absolutist one.

Do you believe people should have the right to own machine guns with no restrictions? No? Then you have to throw out that argument. And it's trite to say, but gun rights in the US were established at a time when single-shot rifles were the best you could get and the main concern was fielding resistance to foreign invasions. If you told people amending the Constitution that rifles nearly 250 years later could kill dozens of people, and that guns were involved in tens of thousands of murders and suicides per year, would they have been absolutist in defending it? I wouldn't count on it.

Remember, while the 2nd Amendment did grant individual rights, it did so with a specific purpose; it was not meant to be a catch-all for people who feel like they 'need' an AR-15 to shoot deer (but really just want a toy) or don't like waiting a day or two for a background check. And you know full well that an absolutist approach would lead to some pretty horrific outcomes. Like it or not, "compromise" is necessary in a world where observable evidence matters.

 

[ivwshane]

Interesting. Life is just chuck full of shit that doesn't match up with my conditioning.

I’m sure you’ve heard of cities like tombstone and dodge city? Like many cities during the late 1800’s, they banned people from carrying guns outside their house. In fact when visitors came into town they were required to check in there guns, incidentally this is what the fight at the OK corral was about that ultimately lead to billy the kids death.

 

[ivwshane]

Pot, kettle, black. Your turn, go!

Lol

Like all our previous interactions, they always lead to the same conclusion; you can’t have a gun debate with a gun nutter because they aren’t rational.

 

[JEDIYoda]

The above responses my friends are of an incoherent man who has been 100% totally TRIGGERED!!

 

[Moonbeam]

Lol

Like all our previous interactions, they always lead to the same conclusion; you can’t have a gun debate with a gun nutter because they aren’t rational.

All I have to do is to tie owning a gun to defending my live and the rest is easy. When I put my life up in front of my face, it's easier not to see the deaths of other people or the fear they may have of me. I mean when the socialists come to take my social security, who knows what I'll do.

 

[ivwshane]

All I have to do is to tie owning a gun to defending my live and the rest is easy. When I put my life up in front of my face, it's easier not to see the deaths of other people or the fear they may have of me. I mean when the socialists come to take my social security, who knows what I'll do.

I can respect someone who fears for their life and wants a gun to feel safe. Its when they use that reasoning to justify guns that won't make you safe. Having an AR type weapon is a horrible weapon to have for defense, personal or for the home. Same with weapons that can utilize high capacity clips/magazines.

 

[fskimospy]

Thank you for your service. Does't make you any less wrong when you say "the 2nd Amendment is dumb."

Great, so now hopefully we can debate the many merits of banning guns instead of having you try and win the argument by declaring that people who think banning guns is a good idea are somehow unpatriotic or whatever.

It sounds like you have never served. I do always find it funny when people who haven’t try and lecture people who have about fighting for the country.

 

[fskimospy]

The founding fathers were pretty smart with the rest of the constitution, but somehow they went full retard when it came to the 2A.

If we are evaluating their work the ‘institutional support for owning other humans as property’ parts could have used some work too.

In case nobody has been paying attention for the last several decades the constitution has many, many flaws, which at this point has basically led to the breakdown of our federal government.

 

[TheVrolok]

You know a nationwide buyback won't put a dent in the number of guns... right? It's like the green new deal. Unicorns and rainbows.

Because your feels tells you so? Any data to back it up?

With the number of folks living paycheck to paycheck and now laid off, it might be surprising how many guns come off the street if a buy back program pays a reasonable rate since the secondary market doesn't pay all that well (in my experience, at least).

 

[fskimospy]

Because your feels tells you so? Any data to back it up?

With the number of folks living paycheck to paycheck and now laid off, it might be surprising how many guns come off the street if a buy back program pays a reasonable rate since the secondary market doesn't pay all that well (in my experience, at least).

Buybacks are only effective if we implement a gun sales ban along with them.

The actual percentage of Americans who own guns has been generally declining so the answer is to stop new sales, implement a buyback, and let the current owners die of old age. It’s not a quick fix but it’s a long term fix.

 

[TheVrolok]

Buybacks are only effective if we implement a gun sales ban along with them.

The actual percentage of Americans who own guns has been generally declining so the answer is to stop new sales, implement a buyback, and let the current owners die of old age. It’s not a quick fix but it’s a long term fix.

Oh absolutely. Was just suggesting that to think a buyback being a fantasy is not based in reality.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Lol

Like all our previous interactions, they always lead to the same conclusion; you can’t have a gun debate with a gun nutter because they aren’t rational.

Probably why they adamantly against mental health screening.

 

[qliveur]

WOW. a comic that illustrates a logic fallacy. IMPRESSIVE!!!!

Slippery slope - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

how retarded are gun owners? the answer is very.

You'd have a point if it hadn't already happened.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can respect someone who fears for their life and wants a gun to feel safe. Its when they use that reasoning to justify guns that won't make you safe. Having an AR type weapon is a horrible weapon to have for defense, personal or for the home. Same with weapons that can utilize high capacity clips/magazines.

But what about my nuclear weapons. The problem is that I am insane, a nutter if you will, but just because I happen to know it doesn’t mean I can let go of it. I want guns that will shoot forever, a million rounds a second, for the apocalypse and a 16 gauge and 38 revolver for home defense.

But I can say one thing. Living in suburban California, where guns are frowned upon, and relatives aren’t into those sorts of things, and having lived that way, of course, since antiquity and with faculties failing, I can say that I have fallen into a state of laxity with regards to preparation for home defense and now keep only my cell phone handy by my bed, and that, only so I don’t have to get out of bed if somebody calls.

And there is also the matter that everything we fear has already happened.

 

[soundforbjt]

Saw something interesting while perusing a link that someone posted in this thread. That is that 3% of gun owners own over 50% of the guns. That means there's approx 10-11 million citizens with nearly 180,000,000 guns.

 

[Rebel_L]

It's not like people who rationalize know they are. And I don't hold safety as anything sacred. But I do think that had our forefathers banned guns a lot of school kids who are dead wouldn't be.

I thought perhaps you would be able to have an interesting conversation on the topic of guns as some of your other posts made it sound like you could. This though is the same kind of rationalizing I though you would be able to avoid.

 

[Moonbeam]

I thought perhaps you would be able to have an interesting conversation on the topic of guns as some of your other posts made it sound like you could. This though is the same kind of rationalizing I though you would be able to avoid.

What I have done in this thread, or attempted to do was to hold up a mirror in which you might see what your own irrationality looks like when you see it in me. We are all the same and if you know who you are you know who everybody is generally speaking.

For example, why would you think either of us was capable of not rationalizing our opinions? I have found it to be enormously difficult not to hold sacred opinions that must be defended at any price because to lose them is to die psychically. For reasons I frankly don't understand, I blame my Mother, I grew up with this cursed need to know that what I believed could be proved. Bad idea if you prefer the bliss of ignorance because I failed to be able to prove anything and that cost me everything I held sacred.

PS: I am a nobody. I have no idea what is right or wrong with the gun issue. It isn't something I lose sleep over. If guns are outlawed I don't care. If they stay legal, so be it. The sun that warms my skin today is the same sun that warmed us throughout history. The only life that is living is in the now. I don't need or not need guns to be. Being or living in fear are all up to me. I am my only real enemy.

 

[IJTSSG]

In case I wasn’t clear earlier I’ve actually fought for this country so I’m not interested in hearing you try and lecture me about it, haha.

I'm really very curious where and when it was that you "fought" for this country. What is your combat experience?

 

[fskimospy]

I'm really very curious where and when it was that you "fought" for this country. What is your combat experience?

My unit was part of operation Iraqi freedom. I have never claimed that I was personally getting shot at or whatever.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm really very curious where and when it was that you "fought" for this country. What is your combat experience?

Have you ever wondered what kind of battles people fought that refused to 'serve', what their families, some of them doubtless military, thought of them?