Dems intend to bypass GOP on health compromise

[sMiLeYz]

THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Obama and the democrats campaigned for Health Care reform this in 2010 and won huge. I know I want this, I know people who oppose the bill because they want a more progressive one, Please speak for yourself.

 

[Patranus]

Obama and the democrats campaigned for Health Care reform this in 2010 and won huge. I know I want this, I know people who oppose the bill because they want a more progressive one, Please speak for yourself.

So you want to be legally forced to buy insurance from an insurance company or go to jail and have nothing done to bring down costs?

(Hint: If you could afford to buy it now and wanted to you would anyways)

 

[ProgressiveAthe]

Republicans dont deserve a voice. So I say good.

 

[theeedude]

Yes, pure tyranny in your opinion.

Right, tyranny when a 60% majority of democratically elected representatives don't let a 40% minority that is not willing to compromise dictate their terms. Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Right, tyranny when a 60% majority of democratically elected representatives don't let a 40% minority that is not willing to compromise dictate their terms. Yeah, that makes sense.

But it's tyranny of the majority! That's a typical response when it's pointed out that the majority wish something (well if it doesn't agree with the poster's POV). Being politics and all, it's fair game, but it's also expected to be called on it.

They should have scrapped the whole thing, and gone back and done some significant homework first then wrote legislation, but they were afraid that it might look bad come election day this year. It might mean that their particular agenda would be found deficient and some other way was better. That would have hurt their egos.

So let's get crap on a plate passed and declare "Mission Accomplished"

No great surprise.

 

[ScottyB]

Good. Why should people who represent toothless religitards with high school educations get a vote anyway? It's a shame their constituents are allowed to vote as it is.

 

[Red Dawn]

So you want to be legally forced to buy insurance from an insurance company or go to jail.

You post this nonsense and expect people to take you seriously?

 

[charrison]

You post this nonsense and expect people to take you seriously?

That nonsense is unfortunately in the bill. If it has since been remove let me know, but it was in there recently.

 

[Red Dawn]

That nonsense is unfortunately in the bill. If it has since been remove let me know, but it was in there recently.

You have a link?

 

[boomerang]

You have a link?

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

The link contains the actual language of the House version of the bill. These bills have not been combined yet, so the language is valid.

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

 

[boomerang]

That link in my post, that last line in the first post. Some of you picked up on it and many of you didn't. It shook down just about how I figured it would.

This bill is about Fundamentally Transforming the United States of America. Oh, it looks like a health care bill to some. It will definitely make some changes in that regard. But this bill is the start of something very big. Our country is being transformed. We were told the transformation was coming and the crowds cheered. This bill will give the government control over one sixth of our economy. This, in addition to control over banks and businesses.

I would like anyone with even a semblance of an open mind to read this article. It's filled with history.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/whats_wrong_with_socialism.html

What did our leader mean by fundamental transformation? What are the intentions, what are the goals? When the majority of the Senate votes against the majority of the people, what form of government is that?

It's not too late, but time is very short.

 

[Red Dawn]

http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583

The link contains the actual language of the House version of the bill. These bills have not been combined yet, so the language is valid.

"If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply"

Since when has filling a false income tax return not been subjected to penalties?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

"If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply"

Since when has filling a false income tax return not been subjected to penalties?

Everyone needs to buy health insurance, whether you can afford it or not. If you do not, you are taxed, whether you can afford it or not. If you don't pay the tax you might not be able to afford because of the insurance mandate, then the 250K/jail time kicks in.

 

[Red Dawn]

Everyone needs to buy health insurance, whether you can afford it or not. If you do not, you are taxed, whether you can afford it or not. If you don't pay the tax you might not be able to afford because of the insurance mandate, then the 250K/jail time kicks in.

No if you file a false return the penalty applies.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Republicans dont deserve a voice. So I say good.

China is calling you.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!

Nice.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No if you file a false return the penalty applies.

So mandatory insurance isn't a part of the bill now? I missed them drop it.

 

[Red Dawn]

So mandatory insurance isn't a part of the bill now? I missed them drop it.

WTF are you talking about? We were discussing the lie that of you don't have it you'll go to jail.

Look I know you have a vested interest in this being in the industry but you don't need to lower yourself to the level of some of the fear mongers in this thread by posting blatant falsehoods. Just stick to the facts, you do a much better job explaining why this isn't a good bill instead of posting bullshit.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

So mandatory insurance isn't a part of the bill now? I missed them drop it.

The mandatory insurance provision was only "dropped" in the minds of those who have selective reading and hearing abilities.

Everything is A-OK! Nothing to see here. Move along, comrade.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

WTF are you talking about? We were discussing the lie that of you don't have it you'll go to jail.

Look I know you have a vested interest in this being in the industry but you don't need to lower yourself to the level of some of the fear mongers in this thread by posting blatant falsehoods. Just stick to the facts, you do a much better job explaining why this isn't a good bill instead of posting bullshit.

Well that would be a nice retort if it had anything to do with what I wrote.

If you don't by insurance you have a tax penalty.

If you don't pay the fine then you have purposefully refused to pay your taxes. That would incur the penalties.

Now what part of that is incorrect?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Right, tyranny when a 60% majority of democratically elected representatives don't let a 40% minority that is not willing to compromise dictate their terms. Yeah, that makes sense.

Oh, is that the story now? Because I could swear that you guys were complaining about that same 40% minority dictating the terms earlier and causing the resulting legislation to be "watered down." So apparently the 60% can now do anything they want? Why "water it down" if that's the case?

 

[Red Dawn]

Well that would be a nice retort if it had anything to do with what I wrote.

If you don't by insurance you have a tax penalty.

If you don't pay the fine then you have purposefully refused to pay your taxes. That would incur the penalties.

Now what part of that is incorrect?

There might be penalties if you didn't with hold enough but as long as you are honest with your return you aren't going to jail or being fined $250,000 which is what the fear mongers in this thread like Patsanus have been claiming which 100% pure unadulterated bullshit.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

There might be penalties if you didn't with hold enough but as long as you are honest with your return you aren't going to jail or being fined $250,000 which is what the fear mongers in this thread like Patsanus have been claiming which 100% pure unadulterated bullshit.

Selective reading and hearing yet again by those who love the current agenda.

Here it is, real simple like:

In the current legislation, if you do not buy private insurance, you will be fined by the IRS. If you do not pay the fine, you will go to jail. Yet you go off on tangents about "with hold enough"?

Seriously, you are spinning so fast it is making everyone dizzy.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Oh, is that the story now? Because I could swear that you guys were complaining about that same 40% minority dictating the terms earlier and causing the resulting legislation to be "watered down." So apparently the 60% can now do anything they want? Why "water it down" if that's the case?

You think it was watered down for the republicans sake?....Newsflash, it was watered down so hick dems and lieberman would vote for it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Selective reading and hearing yet again by those who love the current agenda.

Here it is, real simple like:

In the current legislation, if you do not buy private insurance, you will be fined by the IRS. If you do not pay the fine, you will go to jail. Yet you go off on tangents about "with hold enough"?

Seriously, you are spinning so fast it is making everyone dizzy.

You are a as big a lair as Patsanus. You'll only face jail time if you file a false return which is always the case.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There might be penalties if you didn't with hold enough but as long as you are honest with your return you aren't going to jail or being fined $250,000 which is what the fear mongers in this thread like Patsanus have been claiming which 100% pure unadulterated bullshit.

This is from the Associated Press

THE ISSUE: If individuals don't get health insurance, will they be penalized and how will it happen?
THE POLITICS: President Barack Obama did not propose penalties for people who don't get health insurance as a candidate, but he now supports an individual mandate as long as waivers are available for those for whom it would be a hardship. Republicans say the penalties, which are referred to as taxes in congressional documents, would violate Obama's campaign pledge not to increase taxes on families making less than $250,000 a year. Supporters say a penalty is needed to prevent people from gaming the system. All the overhaul plans under consideration would prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage to people because of pre-existing medical conditions. Many Democrats say penalties are needed to prevent people from going without insurance until they get sick.

WHAT IT MEANS: All the overhaul plans under consideration require individuals to get qualified health insurance, and they all have penalties for not doing so, with exemptions for financial hardships. The Senate bill would start phasing in fines for individuals who don't get insurance in 2014, with the fines reaching $750 for individuals ($2,250 per family) in 2016. The House-passed bill would fine individuals 2.5 percent of their modified adjusted gross income, up to the cost of the average national premium for basic coverage. The IRS would collect the fines through tax returns. Failure to pay federal taxes can result in criminal charges, though it rarely does unless fraud is involved. The Senate bill specifically prohibits criminal penalties.

Now maybe the AP has a vested interest, I don't know, but here you go.