Oh the irony! You want us to pay for healthcare or WE WILL GO BANKRUPT... but of course, any reform is socialism and ISN'T playing with peoples' lives... then Obama wants to have the money for more troops... and he IS playing with people's lives... VERY IMPORTANT to empire build!!!!
Oh the irony! You want us to pay for healthcare or WE WILL GO BANKRUPT... but of course, any reform is socialism and ISN'T playing with peoples' lives... then Obama wants to have the money for more troops... and he IS playing with people's lives... VERY IMPORTANT to empire build!!!!
AHAHAHA. So, you correlate who is the president with how many deaths occur in a war run the exact same way as a means of judging?
The troops will continue to die until we get out of that shithole and chalk it up to another failed foreign policy in US history.
It isn't Bush's fault that we started 2 endless occupations... and after 6 years of dieing and bleeding us dry, we can't refer back to it because for 10 months there has been a new president?
AHAHAHAHAHA.
Taxes are taxes, Patranus, and your pet allegation in that regard is disingenuous, dishonest and basically beneath contempt.
Most of Red State America would shrivel up and die, the population reduced to oldsters too set in their ways to leave if it weren't for the transfer of Blue State funds to them via Federal redistribution.
Your federal vs state tax argument is hogwash in that context, the context of reality.
Most of Red State America would shrivel up and die, the population reduced to oldsters too set in their ways to leave if it weren't for the transfer of Blue State funds to them via Federal redistribution.
Your federal vs state tax argument is hogwash in that context, the context of reality.
Amazing. It's 2009, Bush has been out of office since January, Dems are proposing new taxes, but Bush is to blame.
Amazingly dumb, Obama inherits the worst financial disaster since the Great Depression near 100 years ago, and morons blame him, not the one that helped cause it.
it's how things work.
same thing happened to Bush when he got blamed for the bubble that Clinton inflated bursting.
Here is the thing. I didn't blame him, because I'm not a moron. Why excuse the morons who do it now?
I was promised that the skies would open up and that there would be choirs of angels after electing Obama.
that did not happen.
therefore, it's Obama's fault.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Even after saying that we do not know what the future Obama Afghan strategy will be, or if it will require new taxes, we can still look at the expense of a continuing Afghan war. Especially if we can free some troops from Iraq.
And my point is, that even if we pony up the required economic development we have neglected, Afghanistan need not be that expensive. And under GWB, we were spending more on the Iraq war in two weeks than we spent on Afghanistan all year.
But we will all have to wait until Obama announces his strategy for Afghanistan.
And who knows, Obama may conclude Afghanistan is beyond all salvage, after all we no longer even pretend to be fighting Al Quida, which was our objective in the first place. How the hell did we take our eyes off the prize?
And my point is, that even if we pony up the required economic development we have neglected, Afghanistan need not be that expensive. And under GWB, we were spending more on the Iraq war in two weeks than we spent on Afghanistan all year.
But we will all have to wait until Obama announces his strategy for Afghanistan.
And who knows, Obama may conclude Afghanistan is beyond all salvage, after all we no longer even pretend to be fighting Al Quida, which was our objective in the first place. How the hell did we take our eyes off the prize?
BrownShoes
Golden Member
- Dec 28, 2008
- 1,055
- 0
- 0
Hold on one second. This country has a substantial dollar value attached to it.
As others have said, it's a no win situation - we might have had a chance had we done it right 8 fucking years ago.
We're basically starting over from a worse position than when we initially started, the people are tired of us being there and we've created a narco state that is probably a lot worse than the Taliban all things considered. I mean they're still terrorizing people and now the Afghanis have to deal with corrupt politicians in addition to the zealots.
In order to turns things around, we're looking at 10 more years probably - with unknown amounts of blood and treasure being spent and even then we could still fail.
We're basically starting over from a worse position than when we initially started, the people are tired of us being there and we've created a narco state that is probably a lot worse than the Taliban all things considered. I mean they're still terrorizing people and now the Afghanis have to deal with corrupt politicians in addition to the zealots.
In order to turns things around, we're looking at 10 more years probably - with unknown amounts of blood and treasure being spent and even then we could still fail.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
i agree. Obama inherited a nasty disaster. but at what point does he take the credit or blame? how long are obama followers going to continue the "but bush" bullshit? At some point someone is going to have to take resbonsiblity in the party.
we all know Bush fucked up bad. But having Obama and his cabinit repeatadly saying "we inharitied this mess" instead of saying this is what we are doing/this is what i have done/ this didnt work etc is starting to wear on the people.
only the idiots thought Obama could turn it around in 9 months. hell i will be suprised if anything real is happening this time next year. unless Obama continues to add to the tax burden.
$2.091 trillion
Full Cost to continue 'overseas contingency operations': 2010-1019
This projection was subsequently cut over the term to $1.57 trillion --- I do not believe the projection includes the additional troops proposed for Afghanistan (or a pending DoD 'supplemental' request for $60-$80 billion this fiscal year).
IIRC, cutting troop levels to 75k by 2013 (for both Iraq and Afghanistan) would save $500 billion over the term.
Cutting troop levels to 30k by 2013 would save an additional $1 trillion over the term (I assume that means we would still be spending $570 billion in Iraq and Afghanistan from FY2010-2019).
This is contained in a CBO report with elements within the FY2010 budget documents ---- I'll also assume this is one reason Obama is dragging his feet on Afghanistan (that, and we can't drop 40k troops in Afghanistan over the winter anyway .... could take as long as a year to get them in)
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Full Cost to continue 'overseas contingency operations': 2010-1019
This projection was subsequently cut over the term to $1.57 trillion --- I do not believe the projection includes the additional troops proposed for Afghanistan (or a pending DoD 'supplemental' request for $60-$80 billion this fiscal year).
IIRC, cutting troop levels to 75k by 2013 (for both Iraq and Afghanistan) would save $500 billion over the term.
Cutting troop levels to 30k by 2013 would save an additional $1 trillion over the term (I assume that means we would still be spending $570 billion in Iraq and Afghanistan from FY2010-2019).
This is contained in a CBO report with elements within the FY2010 budget documents ---- I'll also assume this is one reason Obama is dragging his feet on Afghanistan (that, and we can't drop 40k troops in Afghanistan over the winter anyway .... could take as long as a year to get them in)
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Pens1566
Lifer
- Oct 11, 2005
- 14,050
- 11,772
- 136
If you inherit a disaster, there is no time limit for pointing out the FACT that it was inherited and not their fault.
Since there is no sure way to fix these problems, the fault remains with Bush.
Sometimes the only way to fix a disaster is not to let it happen in the first place.
How long did it take to fix the great depression?
"The timing of the Great Depression varied across nations, but in most countries it started in about 1929 and lasted until the late 1930s or early 1940s"
So it took over 10 years to fix the great depression... So maybe in 7-8 years Obama could take part of the blame for not fixing it. 9 months? Umm, no.
The idiocy of you fucking hypocrites knows no bounds.
Well if you believe Jesus lived in Missouri I'd wager he has "larger" defects to correct first.
IIRC he promised to end the wars but did you expect them to be ended by now and with no additional bloodshed or funding? I'm with the others who say GTFO as it appears to be a lost cause. I just hope we don't throw many more lives and $$$ away in the name of 'victory'.
personally? no. when I voted for Obama, I expected about what we're getting (pushed back deadlines, promises ignored, etc)
but I think there's a not-insignificant contingent that did.
I disagree there... Most of what I hear is 'hope and change' sarcasm being thrown from the right. Anyone who expected some kind of success at this point is only kidding themselves.
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
well to be fair he said he would do a LOT and all we have got besides bail outs for business is excuses and the same old policies and acts as Bush.
But i agree anyone who really thought he could accomplish much in what 9 months is neive.
I dont think the military is large enough to keep fighting more wars. This concept of a leaner meaner military is not working that well. Remember at one time we had 300,000 troops in Iraq. Who thinks we will have enough troops to manage Iraq and Afghanistan? We have already stretched to the limit the national guard and reserves. Either increase the size of the military or pull out of Iraq. Only way to manage this is pull out of Iraq or pull all of our troops out. The only other way would be to increase the size of the military. This might be a way to actually create jobs.
I just cant wait till we start saving all that money with our new health care plan!
If you believe that you are a fool.
I just cant wait till we start saving all that money with our new health care plan!
If you believe that you are a fool.
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