Democrats support higher education

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Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Rainsford
They don't have to give it away for free, my point about innovation was that the "pirates" have an advanced distribution system and a very flexible and free format for the various types of media. The commercial solutions, on the other hand, are hard to use, incompatible with each other, extremely restrictive and pointlessly expensive. Figuring out a way to get the good parts of the "pirate" system while still making money seems pretty easy. For example, offer Bit Torrent downloads in open formats of TV shows WITH commercials. At that point, it's just too much trouble to strip out the commercials for the benefits you get.

Indeed, just look at the recent debacle of MLB and their DRM protected content.

MLB to fans: Screw you.

MLB changes their DRM format, rendering all previously purchased content unusable. Their reaction to their paying customers? Piss off.

I want to see Hollywood, Disney, all the major music studios, all the current entertainment conglomerates, crash and burn in glorious fireball of bankruptcy. We don't need them.

The MLB thing was exactly what I was talking about. There is NOTHING good about DRM from a consumer standpoint, and often it's implemented in such a way as to make the product pretty useless for a lot of things. The idea that I should pay for broken crap is pretty silly, the idea that it should be illegal for me to try and fix what I legally purchased is beyond stupid.

Right now, I could go out to any of a dozen places and get the latest episode of every TV show out there, in extremely high quality, download them in minutes and watch them on my TV in my living room. And when I fly home to visit my family for Thanksgiving, I could take the shows with me on my laptop to watch on the airplane. I could do all of this with off the shelf, open source, interoperable products that will work 10 years from now on any number of current and future devices. There is not a single commercial system, for any amount of money, that gives this to me. Hell, I'd pay for it...but such a product simply doesn't exist.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,748
10,055
136
Originally posted by: Rainsford
And in any case, this isn't even going after the people breaking the law, it's government sanctioned extortion of colleges and students who may or may not be doing anything wrong.

We can finally agree on something. :thumbsup:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: Rainsford
And in any case, this isn't even going after the people breaking the law, it's government sanctioned extortion of colleges and students who may or may not be doing anything wrong.

We can finally agree on something. :thumbsup:

I've always found it interesting that groups like the MPAA/RIAA that engage in such mafia like practices that I doubt very many individuals support somehow manage to get a great amount of support from both sides of the aisle in government. Like you implied, we don't agree on much, and even we can agree on the **AA's actions here. If this doesn't illustrate how democracy sometimes doesn't work, I can't think of a better example.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Well that is nice. Puniching everybody on a university campus because a few abuse? Typical govt one shoe size fits all solution to a problem. And this requirement to provide an alternative? Can we say profiteering by the music industry with the help of our elected officials?

Why not cutout the middleman crap and just do what they want. Write the music industry a check with taxpayers money?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
What we forget in this issue is that the computer networks the Feds also support are being totally clogged by the bandwidth used by students illegally downloading music. Thus robbing more honest students of computer time. Thus forcing the college or university to address the computer use policy issues. Especially when they must follow existing laws
and its expensive for administrators to comply with illegal download investigations.

But lets see if the wonderful republicans make an issue of the freedom's being violated before we condemn just the democrats.

After all, there has been a plague of similar troll threads lately on P&N seeking to tar only democrats. At least the link provided does contain some coverage of the issues.

But falls well short of demonstrating this is for the sole benefit of the MPAA/RIAA or the ability of a student to opt out of paying for any legal music download service.

Boy, you have an excuse for everything your Dems do, don't you.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Get rid of the middleman, down load a song, make a direct payment to the artist. Capitalism at it's simplist and most honest. Legislation for the sole support of corporate greed is what it sounds like to me.
Indeed. If you're a politician, it's not wise to bite the hand that feeds you.


Originally posted by: Rainsford
I've always found it interesting that groups like the MPAA/RIAA that engage in such mafia like practices that I doubt very many individuals support somehow manage to get a great amount of support from both sides of the aisle in government. Like you implied, we don't agree on much, and even we can agree on the **AA's actions here. If this doesn't illustrate how democracy sometimes doesn't work, I can't think of a better example.
They've probably got lobbyists endowed with a huge book of bipartisan blank checks, ready to buy only the finest legislation that money can buy.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: CPA
Boy, you have an excuse for everything your Dems do, don't you.

And lousy ones at that :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

Yeah, I don't quite get it...we don't need MORE blind partisan loyalty around here. There is already plenty on both sides, it would be nice if people cared about the ISSUES as much as they care about their "team" winning.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
So, those bastions of liberal think and PC correctness are getting stomped on and extorted by their political party?

There's a healthy dose of irony here.

Fern
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Fern
So, those bastions of liberal think and PC correctness are getting stomped on and extorted by their political party?

There's a healthy dose of irony here.

Fern

You know, the absolute hatred you people have for education is pretty interesting. It's not quite like wearing a sign around your neck saying "I'm stupid and proud of it!", but it's pretty damn close. You've somehow managed to raise being ignorant AND elitist about it to a high art.

And I'm not sure I see the irony here. Sure, some Democrats support this policy...but in taking money to support corporate interests over the best interests of the average folks, they are acting WAY more like Republicans. And while I'm sure it's difficult to understand, thinking as you do, being on one side of a particular fence and being a huge partisan tool is not the same thing at all.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Fern
So, those bastions of liberal think and PC correctness are getting stomped on and extorted by their political party?

There's a healthy dose of irony here.

Fern

You know, the absolute hatred you people have for education is pretty interesting. It's not quite like wearing a sign around your neck saying "I'm stupid and proud of it!", but it's pretty damn close. You've somehow managed to raise being ignorant AND elitist about it to a high art.

And I'm not sure I see the irony here. Sure, some Democrats support this policy...but in taking money to support corporate interests over the best interests of the average folks, they are acting WAY more like Republicans. And while I'm sure it's difficult to understand, thinking as you do, being on one side of a particular fence and being a huge partisan tool is not the same thing at all.

Resorting to personal insults again?

Spinning this Dem position into how it's like Repubs? We can see who the political tool is.

Fern
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
"It is the eternal struggle between these two principles---right and wrong---throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, 'You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it.' No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle."
-- Abraham Lincoln


There is a horrific precedent in this legislation. The worst slippery slope fears of all the government doomsayers are being realized. Buy or be punished. And what will we be punished with? The very same stick that we gave them to help us with.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Fern
So, those bastions of liberal think and PC correctness are getting stomped on and extorted by their political party?

There's a healthy dose of irony here.

Fern

You know, the absolute hatred you people have for education is pretty interesting. It's not quite like wearing a sign around your neck saying "I'm stupid and proud of it!", but it's pretty damn close. You've somehow managed to raise being ignorant AND elitist about it to a high art.

And I'm not sure I see the irony here. Sure, some Democrats support this policy...but in taking money to support corporate interests over the best interests of the average folks, they are acting WAY more like Republicans. And while I'm sure it's difficult to understand, thinking as you do, being on one side of a particular fence and being a huge partisan tool is not the same thing at all.

Resorting to personal insults again?

Spinning this Dem position into how it's like Repubs? We can see who the political tool is.

Fern

Hey, you started it :)

Seriously, I'm not spinning anything...in fact, I don't believe that crap I just posted, I was mocking your silly approach to every single issue where you have to find a way to make some larger political point. Had this been about Christian universities in particular, you would have said it's because the Democrats hate Christians. Had this been Democrats REJECTING the MPAA/RIAA proposal, it would have been because Democrats are just tools for the "bastions of liberal think and PC correctness".

My post was taking a point that was only tangentially related and then going off on a rant about my personal thoughts (well, not really, but for the purposes of this post they were my views)...which is exactly what you did. You contribute NOTHING to the discussion, I could post random things from FreeRepublic in random threads on P&N and it would fill in for you quite nicely.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,547
1,127
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
MPAA/RIAA working very hard to turn the whole country against themselves by blatant over reaching. Also, it would allow the entertainment industry to charge exuberant fees because colleges would be under mandate to buy their services. It would be an indirect federal subsidy to the entertainment industry where colleges pay them for these services, then pass on the cost to students, and then government will need to spend more on financial aid. Democrats need to withdraw this from the legislation, and other subsidy mandates like ethanol requirement in gasoline.


The bill is being moved to mark up this week. It'll be on the floor before the end of this session of the 110th Congress(roughly Dec 15, maybe later, no one knows).

In all likelyhood, this part of the bill wont make it past markup. The inclusion of it gives democrats the ability to tell the RIAA/MPAA they tried. The final version of the bill that will make it to the House floor won't contain the language thats incite people in this thread.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Lemon law
What we forget in this issue is that the computer networks the Feds also support are being totally clogged by the bandwidth used by students illegally downloading music. Thus robbing more honest students of computer time. Thus forcing the college or university to address the computer use policy issues. Especially when they must follow existing laws
and its expensive for administrators to comply with illegal download investigations.

But lets see if the wonderful republicans make an issue of the freedom's being violated before we condemn just the democrats.

After all, there has been a plague of similar troll threads lately on P&N seeking to tar only democrats. At least the link provided does contain some coverage of the issues.

But falls well short of demonstrating this is for the sole benefit of the MPAA/RIAA or the ability of a student to opt out of paying for any legal music download service.

Boy, you have an excuse for everything your Dems do, don't you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I am not making excuses, I am suggesting there are more dimensions to the problem and am suggesting some ways we can discuss this problem in a less partisan fashion.

And I stand ready and able to debunk troll threads when and where I see them. What you see as an excuse is a complaint that your partisan republican biased troll thread got debunked.

Everyone would like to see the following----------Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Get rid of the middleman, down load a song, make a direct payment to the artist. Capitalism at it's simplist and most honest.

The problem is that the artist does not get paid either when the song is illegally downloaded. Its a fairness and copyright problem republican and democratic congresses
have been ignoring for years. And I am asking specific questions on the extent to which students are directly forced to subsidize the MPAA/RIAA if they download no music. If that were the case, I would oppose the bill, and even applaud Republicans who ARE DIRECTLY OPPOSING THE BILL. The other little question unaddressed in this thread.

Now lets ask the real non-partisan questions we should be asking. How do we see that the artist is paid while leaving the damn MPAA/RIAA out of the picture where they belong?

How precisely do we get a bill to do that enacted into law? How do we write this bill? How do we enforce the law once it becomes law?
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,547
1,127
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Lemon law
What we forget in this issue is that the computer networks the Feds also support are being totally clogged by the bandwidth used by students illegally downloading music. Thus robbing more honest students of computer time. Thus forcing the college or university to address the computer use policy issues. Especially when they must follow existing laws
and its expensive for administrators to comply with illegal download investigations.

But lets see if the wonderful republicans make an issue of the freedom's being violated before we condemn just the democrats.

After all, there has been a plague of similar troll threads lately on P&N seeking to tar only democrats. At least the link provided does contain some coverage of the issues.

But falls well short of demonstrating this is for the sole benefit of the MPAA/RIAA or the ability of a student to opt out of paying for any legal music download service.

Boy, you have an excuse for everything your Dems do, don't you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I am not making excuses, I am suggesting there are more dimensions to the problem and am suggesting some ways we can discuss this problem in a less partisan fashion.

And I stand ready and able to debunk troll threads when and where I see them. What you see as an excuse is a complaint that your partisan republican biased troll thread got debunked.

Everyone would like to see the following----------Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Get rid of the middleman, down load a song, make a direct payment to the artist. Capitalism at it's simplist and most honest.

The problem is that the artist does not get paid either when the song is illegally downloaded. Its a fairness and copyright problem republican and democratic congresses
have been ignoring for years. And I am asking specific questions on the extent to which students are directly forced to subsidize the MPAA/RIAA if they download no music. If that were the case, I would oppose the bill, and even applaud Republicans who ARE DIRECTLY OPPOSING THE BILL. The other little question unaddressed in this thread.

Now lets ask the real non-partisan questions we should be asking. How do we see that the artist is paid while leaving the damn MPAA/RIAA out of the picture where they belong?

How precisely do we get a bill to do that enacted into law? How do we write this bill? How do we enforce the law once it becomes law?

You cannot because the MPAA and RIAA are made up of the distributors of the music and movies. How many artists go anywhere without a major label backing them?

Theres not that many.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Wreckem asks the valid questions---You cannot because the MPAA and RIAA are made up of the distributors of the music and movies. How many artists go anywhere without a major label backing them?

Theres not that many.

I somewhat disagree. The same technology that has basically wrecked existing copyright law by placing the means of reproduction in the hands of any individuals who owns a computer with a CD burner also now places the ability to mass produce and sell their music in the hands of the artists.

Back in the days of the long play album played on a turntable, that means of production was extremely expensive and could only be afforded by large companies. Allowing the
RIAA to basically enslave the artist as they monopolized the means of production and the sales and distribution channels.

And now the RIAA and to a lesser extent the MPAA are un needed entities hanging on by their piggish fingernails. And they still shamelessly exploit the artists while kiting their own exorbitant mark ups. Legislation to encourage independent artist to sell directly to the consumer might be the answer. But that market is just starting to emerge and the devil is in the details. The artist still must be paid or the music dies.
 

GenHoth

Platinum Member
Jul 5, 2007
2,106
0
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford

Yeah, I don't quite get it...we don't need MORE blind partisan loyalty around here. There is already plenty on both sides, it would be nice if people cared about the ISSUES as much as they care about their "team" winning.

QFT