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Democrats Plan Vote to Formalize Procedures for Impeachment Investigation. NEW, Politico article added.

Moonbeam said:
www.nytimes.com

Democrats Plan Vote to Formalize Procedures for Impeachment Investigation (Published 2019)

The procedures could elicit more information about instances of possible obstruction of justice and abuses of power by President Trump.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Perhaps some small increase of pace? It's like watching a firing squad count down from a million.
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I believe the political strategy is to slowly ramp up the pace of the inquiry as we get towards election season.

When the Nixon impeachment inquiry occurred less than 50% of the country was on board with impeachment. After the inquiry public perception changed.

Depending on what they have and how they present it the House could air a lot of dirt to keep Trumps approval at his lower bounds. Then hope to hang the impeachment around Mitch McConnell to make him politically vulnerable after he kills it in the senate.
 
Thanks Paratus and JEDIYoda. I really don't like my negative attitude here. See moral cowardliness and that would imply it very well could be intuition or projection, the latter being quite worrying. I don't much care for negativity but think it's out there.
 
Moonbeam said:
Thanks Paratus and JEDIYoda. I really don't like my negative attitude here. See moral cowardliness and that would imply it very well could be intuition or projection, the latter being quite worrying. I don't much care for negativity but think it's out there.
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you probably feel anger because someone was critical of your generation. A generation that you knew was flawed and thats why someone pointing it out made you feel so insecure. Your anger was a reflection of your anger towards others of your generation for letting you down.
 
The Dems have control over the impeachment process. Therefore IMO, they've decided that impeaching Trump is less of a priority than keeping the House in their control and taking the Senate in 2020. It seems Pelosi thinks they've already got Trump dead to rights evidence-wise and bringing it all out to the public at large over an extended period of time is better than dumping it all out in an overload.

All Trump can do now is have his nightly nightmares over being humiliated time and again as the Dems bring forth the shitload of evidence collected by Mueller and their own investigations despite Trump, Barr and McConnell's efforts at hiding everything they could from Pelosi's grasp.

Building a case in the Court of Public Opinion and coordinating that with the impeachment process seems to be the way to go.

As Paratus mentioned, timing is an advantage the Dems have and they should use it to maximum advantage.
 
Word is that the Democrats are going to use the Watergate-style format where counsel will ask the questions, keeping the politicians out of the direct questioning of witnesses. If that's the case then I think they are making the right decision in how to proceed. As the old saying goes, too many cooks spoil the broth.

I hope the Democrats pick a 'chef' that will slice, dice, fillet, julienne and puree Felonious D's fat orange ass and then deep fat fry it so we can feed it to his supporters.
 
They aren’t planning to impeach him, they are planning to have the specter of it imminent so that it sucks up all the media conversations. It will have he same effect on Trump as Hillary’s investigations did on her.
 
JSt0rm said:
you probably feel anger because someone was critical of your generation. A generation that you knew was flawed and thats why someone pointing it out made you feel so insecure. Your anger was a reflection of your anger towards others of your generation for letting you down.
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Show us on the doll where Moonbeam touched you. So you blame Blacks and Jews for your angst. Figures.
 
Moonbeam said:
Thanks Paratus and JEDIYoda. I really don't like my negative attitude here. See moral cowardliness and that would imply it very well could be intuition or projection, the latter being quite worrying. I don't much care for negativity but think it's out there.
Click to expand...

Your attitude reflects experience based on reality. Moral cowardice would to NOT be skeptical and turning your back on events and history, adopting hope blindly. No, you are IMO spot on.

Looking at the article I wonder what this "new due process" is about. I read what is written, but what is the true intent here?
 
SlowSpyder said:
I'm blown away that some of you still think Trump is getting impeached.
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I'm not blown away by anything, least of all your statement. Right now I've tossed a coin and am waiting for it to land. You pretend to know the future. From what I see here there's little "will impeach", but a discussion of the process as it happens towards an uncertain end.

Only a fool would make a categorical statement either way.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
I'm not blown away by anything, least of all your statement. Right now I've tossed a coin and am waiting for it to land. You pretend to know the future. From what I see here there's little "will impeach", but a discussion of the process as it happens towards an uncertain end.

Only a fool would make a categorical statement either way.
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I'm making an educated decision based on the evidence at hand. The Mueller investigation is over and it didn't happen. Kind of hard to make it happen suddenly now, especially when no wrong doing was found. As another poster stated, I think the Democrats only option here is to keep it alive and hope it hurts Trump for 2020. Barring some new revelation, he's not getting impeached, the Democrats will actually have to win the election against him.
 
SlowSpyder said:
I'm making an educated decision based on the evidence at hand. The Mueller investigation is over and it didn't happen. Kind of hard to make it happen suddenly now, especially when no wrong doing was found. As another poster stated, I think the Democrats only option here is to keep it alive and hope it hurts Trump for 2020. Barring some new revelation, he's not getting impeached, the Democrats will actually have to win the election against him.
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Well the Mueller report finds wrongdoing so again that's put to bed. That put aside Trump can be impeached on grounds Franklin would have approved of, but you know that right? Perhaps you should read up on that history.

"He's not getting impeached" is a statement you can neither prove nor disprove, the same as I or anyone else on this planet unless you have some hidden divine knowledge of the matter and that would require extraordinary verifiable proof to be taken credibly.

You cannot know by all the known laws of time and space. You might say you have a basis for a supposition, but you don't answer with anything less than certainty, something no one has.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Your attitude reflects experience based on reality. Moral cowardice would to NOT be skeptical and turning your back on events and history, adopting hope blindly. No, you are IMO spot on.

Looking at the article I wonder what this "new due process" is about. I read what is written, but what is the true intent here?
Click to expand...
Well, while I am not sure how it came about that need for certainty drove me to destroy everything I once believed was sacred to the point of black hopelessness, I am pretty sure it wasn't the opinion that I already knew everything there was to know as some people who post here seem to believe. And, while I believe that self hate is near universal and suppressed deeply out of conscious awareness, I don't see it as a property of just 'some other'. It is also true of me.

Thus, while I feel I have an accurate handle on what truly motivates people, the avoidance of feelings of worthlessness, I am not sure at all what is really going on with democrats. It's not just a matter of simple self hate. There is political calculus and political strategy involved. I also don't think democrats think in lock step, one with the other, but have different opinions on whether or not to impeach. I am trying, in my small way, not to assume only the worst without also denying the possibility of callow self interest is part of it.

I am generally of the opinion, however, that politicians are cowards when it comes to taking a stand on anything they fear is unpopular. They always, no, not always but generally, have a finger in the air.
 
DrDoug said:
Word is that the Democrats are going to use the Watergate-style format where counsel will ask the questions, keeping the politicians out of the direct questioning of witnesses. If that's the case then I think they are making the right decision in how to proceed. As the old saying goes, too many cooks spoil the broth.

I hope the Democrats pick a 'chef' that will slice, dice, fillet, julienne and puree Felonious D's fat orange ass and then deep fat fry it so we can feed it to his supporters.
Click to expand...

Yeah the shit show of politicians asking questions has really derailed attempts for Congress to hold Trump and team accountable. Even on the Democrat side. With limited opportunity to ask questions, it's really hard to coordinate a damning testimony, especially when witnesses dodge questions. You either have to cut your losses to get to the next question of interest or spend all your time trying to get a real answer to something important. If counsel has unlimited time to ensure adequate answers are given for foundational questions, they can really start asking some exposing ones that should catch the attention of anyone watching.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Well the Mueller report finds wrongdoing so again that's put to bed. That put aside Trump can be impeached on grounds Franklin would have approved of, but you know that right? Perhaps you should read up on that history.

"He's not getting impeached" is a statement you can neither prove nor disprove, the same as I or anyone else on this planet unless you have some hidden divine knowledge of the matter and that would require extraordinary verifiable proof to be taken credibly.

You cannot know by all the known laws of time and space. You might say you have a basis for a supposition, but you don't answer with anything less than certainty, something no one has.
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The laws of time and space to the rationalizing conservative brain can be summed up by the word 'Piff'. It is caused by the fear of uncertainty but they can't see it. And while they have been scientifically peer reviewed shown to be more fearful than liberals, it's also to a degree universal because what we fear is loss of face, having pegged our self worth, not on our own individual uniqueness, but on herd brand name. Conservatives are struggling right now because their brand name has turned to shit as Trump destroys everything he touches, deluded psychopath that he is.
 
Moonbeam said:
Well, while I am not sure how it came about that need for certainty drove me to destroy everything I once believed was sacred to the point of black hopelessness, I am pretty sure it wasn't the opinion that I already knew everything there was to know as some people who post here seem to believe. And, while I believe that self hate is near universal and suppressed deeply out of conscious awareness, I don't see it as a property of just 'some other'. It is also true of me.

Thus, while I feel I have an accurate handle on what truly motivates people, the avoidance of feelings of worthlessness, I am not sure at all what is really going on with democrats. It's not just a matter of simple self hate. There is political calculus and political strategy involved. I also don't think democrats think in lock step, one with the other, but have different opinions on whether or not to impeach. I am trying, in my small way, not to assume only the worst without also denying the possibility of callow self interest is part of it.

I am generally of the opinion, however, that politicians are cowards when it comes to taking a stand on anything they fear is unpopular. They always, no, not always but generally, have a finger in the air.
Click to expand...


On the last, politicians are like others in that they are "brave" in doing things in their self-interests and that means supporting wrongs to protect their parties. There are the occasional rebels which we need as much as ever, the "founders" if you will of change, but that isn't here at this time. So while I comprehend their mentality I too feel their loyalty to party over all things is moral cowardice. Sometimes one has to choose between what is "right" and "the law", in this case, the political law of partisanship.

Perhaps you should recalibrate which is within your power and embrace uncertainty over what you cannot know. That does not mean loose passion nor accept what cannot stand, but realize that a basis for hope is in our lacking omniscience, the possibility of a positive outcome being there and logically that can't be denied. Remember a complete person is the reconciliation of emotion and logic, and being guided by a mastery of both. It is reasonable when some things are undeniable on the face of things, in this case our not being able to know what will happen with impeachment.

Doubt is a realistic emotion, something for which there is a basis, but hope exists as we can't know our doubts may be false.

I don't know if this makes sense, but look outside yourself and see what exists and embrace it to find a reason for inspired hope.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Your attitude reflects experience based on reality. Moral cowardice would to NOT be skeptical and turning your back on events and history, adopting hope blindly. No, you are IMO spot on.

Looking at the article I wonder what this "new due process" is about. I read what is written, but what is the true intent here?
Click to expand...
It sounds as if Trumps people are going to have access to all information as it comes to light, not have to wait for a final report. This works for the DNC because it allows them to do precision strikes against Trump, they can control the timing of the entire event.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Well the Mueller report finds wrongdoing so again that's put to bed. That put aside Trump can be impeached on grounds Franklin would have approved of, but you know that right? Perhaps you should read up on that history.

"He's not getting impeached" is a statement you can neither prove nor disprove, the same as I or anyone else on this planet unless you have some hidden divine knowledge of the matter and that would require extraordinary verifiable proof to be taken credibly.

You cannot know by all the known laws of time and space. You might say you have a basis for a supposition, but you don't answer with anything less than certainty, something no one has.
Click to expand...

This lie that the Mueller Report didn't find any wrongdoing when it found the exact opposite is getting really tiresome.
 
Greenman said:
It sounds as if Trumps people are going to have access to all information as it comes to light, not have to wait for a final report. This works for the DNC because it allows them to do precision strikes against Trump, they can control the timing of the entire event.
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It seems to me like giving the defense the prosecutions entire case and ability to formulate and spin the entire process before it officially begins.

Any public defender would shit golden twinkies if given that opportunity and like as not win far more often.
 
Greenman said:
It sounds as if Trumps people are going to have access to all information as it comes to light, not have to wait for a final report. This works for the DNC because it allows them to do precision strikes against Trump, they can control the timing of the entire event.
Click to expand...
How something sounds is subjective when rationalization can be taking place. Since your suspicions run contrary to mine in many cases, I wonder how often you consider the possibility that had the democrats suggested a different format, you would have suspected it too in a negative way. People seem well versed in seeing what they believe.
 
The Democrats should absolutely hold formal impeachment inquiry. Anyone who isn't mentally ill already knows Trump has committed more than enough acts to warrant a vote to impeach. They need to force Moscow Mitch to try to defend Trump's criminality in a formal hearing.
 
thraashman said:
The Democrats should absolutely hold formal impeachment inquiry. Anyone who isn't mentally ill already knows Trump has committed more than enough acts to warrant a vote to impeach. They need to force Moscow Mitch to try to defend Trump's criminality in a formal hearing.
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Don't know if it will ever happen, yet seeing Moscow Mitch the Putin Bitch squirm like a worm trying to defend Trump's malfeasance would be so fun to watch. He'd need to perform a quadruple academy award performance just to keep from having to cry himself to sleep every night.

Personally, I think Moscow Mitch hates Trump with a white hot seething passion that's exacerbated by the fact that he has to defend Trump to get what he wants out of him.

So funny that Mitch is laying low at the moment, ducking those whistling rounds overhead that Trump and Pelosi are firing at each other. Methinks the Dems should keep Mitch in the news, especially about investigating his aluminium deal with Deripaska.
 
Moonbeam said:
How something sounds is subjective when rationalization can be taking place. Since your suspicions run contrary to mine in many cases, I wonder how often you consider the possibility that had the democrats suggested a different format, you would have suspected it too in a negative way. People seem well versed in seeing what they believe.
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I don't think what they're doing is wrong at all. They're involving Trumps team in the process, that's a good thing. Controlling the timing is simply politics, I would be surprised if either side didn't try to exploit that advantage.

The issue I have with most here is the assumption that I'm a Trump supporter. I'm not, but I do approve of a couple of things he's done. More to the point, I'm not emotional about it, I don't hate. Trump is an ass and often an embarrassment, that's not against the law, it's just annoying. I fully expect he'll be one (or less) term president, and I'm good with that.
 
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