Democrats in trouble??

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Tominator
The middle class HAS been shrinking, but not because they are joining the ranks of the poor! They are, and in increasing numbers, joining the ranks of the so-called rich.

Opportunity abounds!

Class warfare failed the Democrats in this election and as more voters take advantage of our system and pull themselves up the ladder there will be MORE Republicans. The old 'tax cuts for the rich' argument became stale and fell on deaf ears that knew the truth.

The poor are stuck where they are because of Democrats telling them that without government they cannot make it. There are success stories of poor people finally succeeding in your newspaper everyday. A hand up, not a handout!

Democrat leadership has failed to promote an agenda. The public perceives the President as honest and down to earth and unlike Clinton/Gore is getting things done that they can identify with. The Democrat faithful stayed home because they were hesitant to vote against Bush and what he stands for at least in part.

The Democrats offered nothing to vote for.

Moving left will hurt them in the national elections even more imho.

Is that true, that the Middle Class is Shrinking because vast numbers of them are becoming rich? Can you back that statement up with some proof? That would be very interesting to me if it were true.

There are some stats at the heritage foundation that during the 80's the bottom 1/5 was more likely to join the ranks of the top 1/5, than to stay in the bottom 1/5.

I do not know of anything more current.

So what they are saying is that more of those born in poverty are likely to become rich than stay in poverty? Sounds little far fetched..if I'm understanding that statement correctly

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: charrison

So you are content to beleive that this election was only about 9/11. How do manage to forget the fact that the DNC has been slipping in power in state/local elections for the past 15 years?

The Georgia legislature just fell to republican hands due to defections. This may become a popular trend if the swing to the left is too hard.

DNC hasn't been slipping around here. We still have a Democrat Governor. 2 years ago, a Democrat took a Senate seat from a good ol boy Republican. Liddy Dole beat Bowles in a close race, most likely because of her immense name recognition.

As for losing power in state elections, maybe I was watching the wrong news, but the Democrats picked up Governor spots in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Illinios, 3 of the most populous states.

Defections often happen when one group is more powerful than the other.

The Republicans gained power in 94. They lost some of it gradually until this year. There is no great push to the left. Should the Democrats move more to the middle to appeal more to normal people? Both parties have been and will continue to.

 

[Kilgor]

So what they are saying is that more of those born in poverty are likely to become rich than stay in poverty? Sounds little far fetched..if I'm understanding that statement correctly

I would think there might be more people in poverty going middle class than getting rich and more of the middle class getting rich. But then it all depends on what you consider rich and poor. If you go by the DNC standards if you make over $15.000 a year you?ve got more than you need and it should be redistributed to more deserving people.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
...I see politics mostly as a struggle over crumbs, how much the rich can extract from the middle class in terms of avoiding shouldering their fair share of responsibility...

We've still got a graduated tax instead of flat. Not good enough? Actually, the only "fair" tax, would be a flat tax. How would that sit with you? Isn't it a pisser that a guy in a Rolls Royce can pull up to a gas pump, and not pay any more tax on that fuel than the guy in the Civic? Why don't the Dems ever bitch about that? Tax on gasoline doesn't even allow deductions or exemptions for the poor, let alone a graduated rate!

My personal take is that those fighting over the pie have, in other words, no interest in sharing the pie and are so focused on getting more than their share of it that they have no time to think about how to grow it.

Sheesh, people don't think about "growing the pie", it just grows as a matter of course! The more entrepreneurs start businesses, the better off we ALL are. God forbid these business owners pull down more than the grunts working for them. Same for the shareholders risking big bucks to keep these guys afloat. Who bails them out when the company goes south? I don't see any tears for them!

If so than what our society will produce is an ever shrinking percent of people with more and more wealth.

IMO, it will produce more and more successful businesses. More jobs, productivity and security. That's all we should expect from the government in the first place.

BTW, anybody got a suggestion or two for a Democrat's "Contract With America"? Otherwise, what is the Democrat's current platform anyway?

 

[olouie]

Originally posted by: mithrandir2001
Hardly. They just lack leadership.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: charrison


As for losing power in state elections, maybe I was watching the wrong news, but the Democrats picked up Governor spots in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Illinios, 3 of the most populous states.

Over the past 10 years the DNC has lost over a 1000 of state seats to the GOP. This country pendulum has been swinging back to the right. You can ignore this fact at your own risk.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Ornery

BTW, anybody got a suggestion or two for a Democrat's "Contract With America"? Otherwise, what is the Democrat's current platform anyway?

The were running on fixing social security and a better prescritiption plan. The Republicans didn't have a drug plan until they figured out they would lose without one.

Lot of Senate candidates were running on repealing the extended patenting of drugs, but Bush did a 180 on policy and got rid of those 2 weeks before the election.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Tominator
The middle class HAS been shrinking, but not because they are joining the ranks of the poor! They are, and in increasing numbers, joining the ranks of the so-called rich.

Opportunity abounds!

Class warfare failed the Democrats in this election and as more voters take advantage of our system and pull themselves up the ladder there will be MORE Republicans. The old 'tax cuts for the rich' argument became stale and fell on deaf ears that knew the truth.

The poor are stuck where they are because of Democrats telling them that without government they cannot make it. There are success stories of poor people finally succeeding in your newspaper everyday. A hand up, not a handout!

Democrat leadership has failed to promote an agenda. The public perceives the President as honest and down to earth and unlike Clinton/Gore is getting things done that they can identify with. The Democrat faithful stayed home because they were hesitant to vote against Bush and what he stands for at least in part.

The Democrats offered nothing to vote for.

Moving left will hurt them in the national elections even more imho.

Is that true, that the Middle Class is Shrinking because vast numbers of them are becoming rich? Can you back that statement up with some proof? That would be very interesting to me if it were true.

There are some stats at the heritage foundation that during the 80's the bottom 1/5 was more likely to join the ranks of the top 1/5, than to stay in the bottom 1/5.

I do not know of anything more current.

So what they are saying is that more of those born in poverty are likely to become rich than stay in poverty? Sounds little far fetched..if I'm understanding that statement correctly

That is exactly what it says. And it is not farfetched at all. People maybe born poor, but they dont have to stay that way.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
...I see politics mostly as a struggle over crumbs, how much the rich can extract from the middle class in terms of avoiding shouldering their fair share of responsibility...

We've still got a graduated tax instead of flat. Not good enough? Actually, the only "fair" tax, would be a flat tax. How would that sit with you? Isn't it a pisser that a guy in a Rolls Royce can pull up to a gas pump, and not pay any more tax on that fuel than the guy in the Civic? Why don't the Dems ever bitch about that? Tax on gasoline doesn't even allow deductions or exemptions for the poor, let alone a graduated rate!

Actually the rich guy can pay more at the pump. I am willing to bet the Rolls consums a lot more gas than the civic.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: charrison

Actually the rich guy can pay more at the pump. I am willing to bet the Rolls consums a lot more gas than the civic.

How many poor people have you seen in Civics? They're usually cars for young people who are just getting started. Poop people are much more likely to drive a banged up Chevy Cavelier with a primer colored passenger door and a bondo front left quarter panel. Who knows how many MPG that thing gets.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Tominator
The middle class HAS been shrinking, but not because they are joining the ranks of the poor! They are, and in increasing numbers, joining the ranks of the so-called rich.

Opportunity abounds!

Class warfare failed the Democrats in this election and as more voters take advantage of our system and pull themselves up the ladder there will be MORE Republicans. The old 'tax cuts for the rich' argument became stale and fell on deaf ears that knew the truth.

The poor are stuck where they are because of Democrats telling them that without government they cannot make it. There are success stories of poor people finally succeeding in your newspaper everyday. A hand up, not a handout!

Democrat leadership has failed to promote an agenda. The public perceives the President as honest and down to earth and unlike Clinton/Gore is getting things done that they can identify with. The Democrat faithful stayed home because they were hesitant to vote against Bush and what he stands for at least in part.

The Democrats offered nothing to vote for.

Moving left will hurt them in the national elections even more imho.

Is that true, that the Middle Class is Shrinking because vast numbers of them are becoming rich? Can you back that statement up with some proof? That would be very interesting to me if it were true.

There are some stats at the heritage foundation that during the 80's the bottom 1/5 was more likely to join the ranks of the top 1/5, than to stay in the bottom 1/5.

I do not know of anything more current.

So what they are saying is that more of those born in poverty are likely to become rich than stay in poverty? Sounds little far fetched..if I'm understanding that statement correctly

That is exactly what it says. And it is not farfetched at all. People maybe born poor, but they dont have to stay that way.

There's no denying that with hard work anybody can free themselves from poverty but stating that more born in poverty become wealthy than that stay in poverty is unbelievable. Now if they had stated that more people born in poverty have attained Middle Class Status than remained in Poverty that would be believable. Of course if you can show me some statisitics proving the Heritage Foundation correct then I will be more than happy to shed my skepticism over their claim.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: Ornery

BTW, anybody got a suggestion or two for a Democrat's "Contract With America"? Otherwise, what is the Democrat's current platform anyway?

The were running on fixing social security and a better prescritiption plan. The Republicans didn't have a drug plan until they figured out they would lose without one.

Lot of Senate candidates were running on repealing the extended patenting of drugs, but Bush did a 180 on policy and got rid of those 2 weeks before the election.

What was their plan for fixing social security? I have yet to hear one other than dont privatize.

No legislation reguarding drug patents has been passed.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: charrison

Actually the rich guy can pay more at the pump. I am willing to bet the Rolls consums a lot more gas than the civic.

How many poor people have you seen in Civics? They're usually cars for young people who are just getting started. Poop people are much more likely to drive a banged up Chevy Cavelier with a primer colored passenger door and a bondo front left quarter panel. Who knows how many MPG that thing gets.

Chevy cavalier, about 35mpg. I just sold my 94.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn



That is exactly what it says. And it is not farfetched at all. People maybe born poor, but they dont have to stay that way.

There's no denying that with hard work anybody can free themselves from poverty but stating that more born in poverty become wealthy than that stay in poverty is unbelievable. Now if they had stated that more people born in poverty have attained Middle Class Status than remained in Poverty that would be believable. Of course if you can show me some statisitics proving the Heritage Foundation correct then I will be more than happy to shed my skepticism over their claim.[/quote]



a close link...

I cant find the exact report i am referring, but this one has some of the similary data. They are pulling these stats from US census data. Maybe i can find the other report later.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: charrison

Actually the rich guy can pay more at the pump. I am willing to bet the Rolls consums a lot more gas than the civic.

How many poor people have you seen in Civics? They're usually cars for young people who are just getting started. Poop people are much more likely to drive a banged up Chevy Cavelier with a primer colored passenger door and a bondo front left quarter panel. Who knows how many MPG that thing gets.

Chevy cavalier, about 35mpg. I just sold my 94.

Yours was probably treated properly and maintained.