Democrats fail again

[Elias824]

The deceased aren't people

What if they rise back up and want their shit back, then well be in trouble.

 

[kranky]

If the estate tax is re-instated, it will likely mean my inlaws' business will be shut down and 40 people put out of work.

My father-in-law is 87 and in not-very-good health, and is the owner of the business. He has enough assets to be subject to the tax, but there is no cash. If he dies while the estate tax is in effect, the assets of the business will have to be sold to pay the tax. The business operates at break-even (which doesn't bother him) and there is no interest from anyone wanting to buy it except to dismantle it for the assets.

If the business is dismantled, the jobs are lost.

Many, many people who would be subject to the tax do not have cash in the estate for the heirs to use to pay it. This is a particular problem for family farms. It just seems wrong that the same family could own a farm for 4 generations and have to sell it to pay estate tax.

 

[sandorski]

What if they rise back up and want their shit back, then well be in trouble.

Shoot them in the head.

 

[Jhhnn]

What if they rise back up and want their shit back, then well be in trouble.

Zombie repo men? I'll take my chances.

Family farms, kranky? Don't repeat that sad old meme- family farms are largely exempt from estate taxes, have been for a very long time.

The most casual google reveals that-

http://factcheck.org/article328.html

 

[Craig234]

Another post lost because I got a call before finishing it and was auto logged out. I'm sick of the way that works here. It should not log people out that way if they don't want it.

 

[sandorski]

Another post lost because I got a call before finishing it and was auto logged out. I'm sick of the way that works here. It should not log people out that way if they don't want it.

I never get Logged out. :\

 

[Darwin333]

Obama was President 3 yrs ago?

Lying won't make it true.

No, 3 years ago the guy you voted for twice was still in office. Whats that got to do with Congress?

 

[Darwin333]

Another post lost because I got a call before finishing it and was auto logged out. I'm sick of the way that works here. It should not log people out that way if they don't want it.

For long posts I highlight the entire thing, ctrl-c and then post just in case I get logged out.

If the post gets "eaten" then just login, hit quote/reply and ctrl-v

 

[Fear No Evil]

This thread makes me absolutely sick. Its amazing what the progressives will do under the veil of social justice. Ask a person in AZ for proof of citizenship and you SCREAM and froth at the mouth screaming racism and civil liberties. A terrorist who tried to kill our soldiers gets a black eye and you SCREAM and froth at the mouth for justice. But a hard working American citizen who built a business from the ground up or saved a bunch of money and made wise decisions during their life? FUCK 'EM! TAKE IT ALL! They don't deserve it. Lets take the money and give it to the illegals in New York to go to school. Lets give it to ACORN in the name of social justice! YEAH! That's the RIGHT thing to do.

Really? Is there any doubt progressives hate America? Or at least what it stands for? This thread pretty much spells it out. Once they gain enough power to steal your money after you die, they'll begin to steal it even more when your are alive. Why not cap the amount a person can earn a year? Surely Bill Gates doesn't deserve what he earned? We should limit him to maybe $100k a year. Who can't live on that? Think of how much better the government could spend his money.

For that matter, why even allow him to control Microsoft? The government would be much better suited to make business decisions for such a large company. Since we've already taken over GM, we should probably do it with highly successful companies as well since they are just stealing it from the poor anyway.

I wonder what some of you would do if your parents died and the community went walking through your parents home deciding what you deserved to keep and what you did not. You parent's wedding rings? Melt them down, YOU didn't earn the money for those. Your Dad's vintage 1950's car that he bought after he got home from WWII and kept it in pristine condition for 60 years? He's DEAD.. he doesn't deserve it any more, and either do YOU! Sell it for scrap, its killing the environment anyway. The silver and china set your parents got as a marriage gift from their great grand parents? That would definitely be better off in the hands of a poor person who can't afford a nice set of dishes.

Oh, but wait. This will only happen to those evil RICH people. Its OK then! Like this evil woman:

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/american-heart-secret-millionaire-helps-hometown-grave/story?id=10870876

That old bag just THRIVED off stealing from the poor her whole life. She lived life excessively and bought gold plated toilets to shit in. That EVIL woman! Why should she be allowed to give her money to her home town when there are other towns suffering? A community pool? That greedy bitch! The Feds should have stripped her of all that cash the moment she died and determined a better way to spend the money. I wonder if that pool was built with union labor? I wonder if minorities were given a chance to bid on it? Check out the homepage for the city she gave her money to:

http://www.longbeachwa.gov/

Not a single minority on that page. Check out Wikipedia's link on that city:

As of the census[2] of 2000, there were 1,283 people, 660 households, and 314 families residing in the city. The population density was 1,018.7 people per square mile (393.2/km&#178. There were 1,155 housing units at an average density of 917.1/sq mi (353.9/km&#178. The racial makeup of the city was 89.87% White, 0.08% African American, 1.09% Native American, 1.40% Asian, 1.56% from other races, and 6.00% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.83% of the population. 19.6% were of German, 11.5% Irish, 10.3% English, 6.3% American and 5.7% Norwegian ancestry according to Census 2000.

90% white? 0.08% black? Was this woman buried in her klan uniform? My god. Think of what her 4.5 million could have done for the starving people of Detroit had this racist old bag not decided to keep it in her racist home town.

 

[glenn1]

Here's a billionaire whose estate will pass to his heirs tax free. Congrats to you all for avoiding the greedy grasping hands of the progressive vampire squid government apologists.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jun/13/bz-billionaire-gets-death-no-taxes/

 

[Argo]

The deceased aren't people, and the notion of entitlement wrt inheritance dates from the ancien regime, the idea that royalty was somehow superior via accident of birth. It runs entirely against the grain of the whole "personal responsibility" schtick espoused by modern Righties. Not that they'd notice, even when they get their faces rubbed in it.

In the process of estate tax collections, assets are sold to people who actually earned the money to buy them, assets that would otherwise be locked up in the hands of inheritors who didn't.

Who worked for what they get? Who's more likely to use those assets constructively?

It's not as if heirs are impoverished in the process, and spouses pay no estate taxes, either...

I'm not sure what inheritance has to do with royalty. Royalty was all about ruling people just because you were born into it. Royalty was all about denying people freedom.

Inheritance on the other hand is all about my ability to pass what I earned to my kids. They may end up multiplying my estate, or losing it all, but why should the efforts of my life benefit somebody other than my kids?

Not to mention that any law attempting to limit inheritance will be fairly hard to impose. I'll just legally pass my entire estate to my kids when I feel the end is near.

 

[sandorski]

I'm not sure what inheritance has to do with royalty. Royalty was all about ruling people just because you were born into it. Royalty was all about denying people freedom.

Inheritance on the other hand is all about my ability to pass what I earned to my kids. They may end up multiplying my estate, or losing it all, but why should the efforts of my life benefit somebody other than my kids?

Not to mention that any law attempting to limit inheritance will be fairly hard to impose. I'll just legally pass my entire estate to my kids when I feel the end is near.

there ya go

 

[Argo]

there ya go

I don't understand what you're trying to say. If you're drawing a parallel between ruling and being rich then I'll have to disagree.

1) Ruling by birth means imposing power over people that they haven't given you. You're denying others their freedoms - freedom to chose their leader.
2) Being born into richness is just that - you have some finite amount of money. You're not denying any rights to anybody.

 

[sandorski]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. If you're drawing a parallel between ruling and being rich then I'll have to disagree.

1) Ruling by birth means imposing power over people that they haven't given you. You're denying others their freedoms - freedom to chose their leader.
2) Being born into richness is just that - you have some finite amount of money. You're not denying any rights to anybody.

It's the same thing, basically. You Inherit due to Birth and nothing else. On the subject of Wealth alone, it is common that the Wealthy hold the Power within a Society. So limiting Wealth through Inheritance prevents essentially a Monarchy type Class within your Society.

 

[Fear No Evil]

It's the same thing, basically. You Inherit due to Birth and nothing else. On the subject of Wealth alone, it is common that the Wealthy hold the Power within a Society. So limiting Wealth through Inheritance prevents essentially a Monarchy type Class within your Society.

So we should probably start taking the income NOW of rich people. You know, like George Soros, Warrent Buffet, etc? If wealth is the problem, why wait until death to take it?

 

[Argo]

It's the same thing, basically. You Inherit due to Birth and nothing else. On the subject of Wealth alone, it is common that the Wealthy hold the Power within a Society. So limiting Wealth through Inheritance prevents essentially a Monarchy type Class within your Society.

There a HUGE difference. On one side you inherit something that was not your parents' to begin with. Not to mention that serfdom (which is all royalty is about) is morally and legally wrong to begin with.

On the other side you inherit a physical object or objects which your parents earned legally.

As a follow up argument - you're mixing concepts. Royalty is illegal under our constitution. Regardless of how it was obtained. Wealth is totally legal.

 

[CycloWizard]

Heh. Except that today, we turn it around, tax the estates of the new nobility, the financial elite. It's not like the dead "suffer" from taxation, or that inheritors "earn" whatever they get, anyway... How does the inheritance of vast wealth square with the usual raving about "personal responsibility", anyway?

So what did you do to earn the money of a dying stranger? The same thing you did to earn the money I earned last year: you voted for someone who is as big an asshole as you are, someone with morals as bankrupt as yours, who agrees with your overwhelming sense of entitlement to everything someone else worked for. If you want to keep funding your precious social programs, be my guest.

 

[sandorski]

There a HUGE difference. On one side you inherit something that was not your parents' to begin with. Not to mention that serfdom (which is all royalty is about) is morally and legally wrong to begin with.

On the other side you inherit a physical object or objects which your parents earned legally.

As a follow up argument - you're mixing concepts. Royalty is illegal under our constitution. Regardless of how it was obtained. Wealth is totally legal.

Nevertheless, they are similar and have similar Ends.

 

[sandorski]

So we should probably start taking the income NOW of rich people. You know, like George Soros, Warrent Buffet, etc? If wealth is the problem, why wait until death to take it?

Fail.

 

[Argo]

Nevertheless, they are similar and have similar Ends.

Care to provide how they are similar? You're not putting up much of an argment.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Fail.

Fail how? Why is wealth evil if inherited but not while you are alive? Why wait until someone dies to steal their money? Buffett and Soros can't possibly spend all they have while alive. Take it now.

 

[sandorski]

Care to provide how they are similar? You're not putting up much of an argment.

I've already provided the argument. Just look at politics and see how Money controls it. How much Proof do you need?

 

[sandorski]

Fail how? Why is wealth evil if inherited but not while you are alive? Why wait until someone dies to steal their money? Buffett and Soros can't possibly spend all they have while alive. Take it now.

Fail, just Fail.

 

[Argo]

I've already provided the argument. Just look at politics and see how Money controls it. How much Proof do you need?

You are stating that royalty (something that is illegal under our constitution) is similar to wealth inheritance (something that is legal under our constitution).

If you still don't see the absurdity of that argument then you sir have a different perspective of reality than the rest of us.

 

[Elias824]

Fail how? Why is wealth evil if inherited but not while you are alive? Why wait until someone dies to steal their money? Buffett and Soros can't possibly spend all they have while alive. Take it now.

The idea is that someone with lots of money while they are alive will invest it, create businesses, or do other things that make a big impact on the ecnonemy. They cannot do this when they are dead, unless their kids have some kind of right to the money because they have some of the genetics. When it comes down to it the fed needs money and you can get some of it either by taxing peoples estates after they die, or taxing then while they are alive. Perhaps we should just disband medicare, medicare, social security, and the military and we wouldnt really have to pay taxes. Wouldn't that be awesome?