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Democrats criticize Obama's proposed tax cuts

winnar111

Banned
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...n_go_pr_wh/obama_taxes

WASHINGTON ? President-elect Barack Obama's proposed tax cuts ran into opposition Thursday from senators in his own party who said they wouldn't do much to stimulate the economy or create jobs. Senators from both parties agreed that Congress should do something to stimulate the economy. But Democratic senators emerging from a private meeting of the Senate Finance Committee criticized business and individual tax cuts in Obama's stimulus plan.

They were especially critical of a proposed $3,000 tax credit for companies that hire or retrain workers.

"If I'm a business person, it's unlikely if you give me a several-thousand-dollar credit that I'm going to hire people if I can't sell the products they're producing," said Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., a member of the committee.

"That to me is just misdirected," Conrad said.

Sen John Kerry, D-Mass., said, "I'd rather spend the money on the infrastructure, on direct investment, on energy conversion, on other kinds of things that much more directly, much more rapidly and much more certainly create a real job."

The cost of the economic rescue package Obama wants is expected to swell to $800 billion or more. About $300 billion of Obama's package would be for tax cuts or refunds for individuals and businesses.

One tax provision would provide a $500 tax cut for most workers and $1,000 for couples, at a cost of about $140 billion to $150 billion over two years. The individual tax cuts may be awarded through withholding less from worker paychecks, effectively making them about $10 to $20 larger each week.

Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., said he doubted that a modest tax cut would change consumers' spending habits.

"In tough times people don't respond all that well to marginal changes, such as a small amount of money added per paycheck," Wyden said.

Democratic Sen. Max Baucus of Montana, chairman of the Finance Committee, said he hopes to schedule a committee vote on the stimulus package in about two weeks, which would coincide with the week of Obama's inauguration. Many senators still hope to approve a package by mid-February.

There is "general agreement that because of the recession we've got to move, we've got to move quickly, very quickly," Baucus said.

He added that it is too early to pass judgment on any aspect of Obama's plan.

"This is an early part of this whole process. A lot of preliminary questions are going to be asked," Baucus said.



I never thought John Kerry would be right about anything, but he just might be here. He's smart enough not go give buckets of money to unproductive people. We did that with Katrina and those people blew it on booze.
 
Originally posted by: winnar111
I never thought John Kerry would be right about anything, but he just might be here. He's smart enough not go give buckets of money to unproductive people. We did that with Katrina and those people blew it on booze.

hahahahahhaa YOU ARE HILARIOUS.

I really think you're either A) joking or B) a bot. No one can actually have your opinions.

Let me get this straight. Obama moves to cut taxes - a move straight out of the republican handbook. Democrats, not surprisingly, disagree. So now you're siding with the democrats - and against all standard conservative logic - just so you can disagree with Obama? You....you can't possibly be serious.
 
Man, Obama is in for a sobering introduction to Washington politics, especially since he mostly sat on the sidelines during his short time there. Washington politicians are going to be a much tougher crowd than his supporters on the campaign trail that had him right up there with Jesus and Steve Jobs. His Jedi mind powers wont work on them.
 
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: winnar111
I never thought John Kerry would be right about anything, but he just might be here. He's smart enough not go give buckets of money to unproductive people. We did that with Katrina and those people blew it on booze.

hahahahahhaa YOU ARE HILARIOUS.

I really think you're either A) joking or B) a bot. No one can actually have your opinions.

Let me get this straight. Obama moves to cut taxes - a move straight out of the republican handbook. Democrats, not surprisingly, disagree. So now you're siding with the democrats - and against all standard conservative logic - just so you can disagree with Obama? You....you can't possibly be serious.


I just saw at Fox that Obama has a 39% disaproval rating. yet he is not even Prez yet. 😕
 
Attack the poster instead of commenting on the story?

I can see where the next 4 years are headed....
 
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Attack the poster instead of commenting on the story?

I can see where the next 4 years are headed....

Yes - 4 years of people blindly attacking Obama, even when he makes moves that fit their own ideology. 4 years of that poster's buddies coming in with weak defenses, simply because they are united by their blind hatred.

For the record, my post did comment on the story, as well as the absurdity that the OP would have said commentary.
 
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Attack the poster instead of commenting on the story?

I can see where the next 4 years are headed....

winnar is a well-known conservative pundit around here. People aren't attacking him, they're pointing out the irony of a conservative attacking Obama for supporting a very conservative policy.
 
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Attack the poster instead of commenting on the story?

I can see where the next 4 years are headed....

winnar is a well-known conservative pundit around here. People aren't attacking him, they're pointing out the irony of a conservative attacking Obama for supporting a very conservative policy.

ocguy knows that, he is one of winnars followers.
 
Originally posted by: winnar111
I never thought John Kerry would be right about anything, but he just might be here. He's smart enough not go give buckets of money to unproductive people. We did that with Katrina and those people blew it on booze.
You think Kerry is right?!? Seriously?

Sen John Kerry, D-Mass., said, "I'd rather spend the money on the infrastructure, on direct investment, on energy conversion, on other kinds of things that much more directly, much more rapidly and much more certainly create a real job."

What a stupid statement. Of course Obama is going to invest money in infrastructure, on alternate energy, on all sorts of things as part of his plan to create 3mil jobs. Leave it to Kerry, and his biggest fan, Winnar!1121212one! to not know this!

It's not an either-or proposition you dolts!

:roll:

 
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: winnar111
I never thought John Kerry would be right about anything, but he just might be here. He's smart enough not go give buckets of money to unproductive people. We did that with Katrina and those people blew it on booze.

hahahahahhaa YOU ARE HILARIOUS.

I really think you're either A) joking or B) a bot. No one can actually have your opinions.

Let me get this straight. Obama moves to cut taxes - a move straight out of the republican handbook. Democrats, not surprisingly, disagree. So now you're siding with the democrats - and against all standard conservative logic - just so you can disagree with Obama? You....you can't possibly be serious.

Oh, these won't be tax cuts to successful working Americans. They're handouts for deadbeats.

If Obama wants to cut taxes, he can make the 2001 cuts permanent.
 
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: winnar111
I never thought John Kerry would be right about anything, but he just might be here. He's smart enough not go give buckets of money to unproductive people. We did that with Katrina and those people blew it on booze.

hahahahahhaa YOU ARE HILARIOUS.

I really think you're either A) joking or B) a bot. No one can actually have your opinions.

Let me get this straight. Obama moves to cut taxes - a move straight out of the republican handbook. Democrats, not surprisingly, disagree. So now you're siding with the democrats - and against all standard conservative logic - just so you can disagree with Obama? You....you can't possibly be serious.
That's exactly how I interpreted it, too. Winnar is completely ridiculous. I'm sure he said Obama would raise taxes before the election and now chastizes for cutting them. He's possibly the most biased hack here.

 
All tempting urges to bash winnar aside, I would like to see an economic explanation of how having $500 less deducted from our paychecks over a long period of time is going to stimulate the economy. Obama has some of the brightest economic minds of our time at his disposal - surely there's a good explanation. Otherwise my gut reaction is with my senator Wyden.
 
Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
All tempting urges to bash winnar aside, I would like to see an economic explanation of how having $500 less deducted from our paychecks over a long period of time is going to stimulate the economy. Obama has some of the brightest economic minds of our time at his disposal - surely there's a good explanation. Otherwise my gut reaction is with my senator Wyden.
There is no good explanation, certainly not a convincing one.

I have found that staying close to this news makes me depressed so I'm distancing myself, but it seems like Obama is going to take the worst of Republican fiscal execution and magnify it in all directions, deficit spend and cut taxes. However, since I know he is a smart guy and has good advisors I'm somewhat inclined to give him a break and see how it works out.

 
Originally posted by: winnar111

Oh, these won't be tax cuts to successful working Americans. They're handouts for deadbeats.

You should be more excited to be getting such a massive tax cut then.
 
I don't think winner111 or any other conservative is gonna attack Obama for (real) tax cuts. What winner111 and others are having problems with is the issue of where those cuts are going and are they really "tax cuts" or something else disguised as tax cuts?

Washington DC's favorite game is coming up with deceptive labels. Only in DC can increased welfare-type payments/programs get labled as a "tax cut". If you aren't paying any income tax to begin with, you sure as heck can't get a "tax cut". Zero is zero, once you get to the point where some people are not only NOT paying tax, but starting to get money from Uncle Sam you're into the territory of wealth redistribution or welfare (gov support). It ain't a tax cut. Maybe more welfare type money is justified in hard times, but please let's call it what it really is.

But in the bigger picture, this debate underscores a big difference between Dems & Repubs. Repubs wanna put (or leave) the money in the hands of the people. Dems wanna increase goverment spending because they are afraid people won't spend it all, they may just pay down CC debt etc.

IMO governemt programs to stimulate the economy are a tough thing.

1. Spending on infrastruture? I've read too much to be optimistic. It's great if you're a big gov road contractor, but that ain't many of us. Plus this stuff takes a long time. New roads? GGood friggin luck, the DOT has been trying to widen the Interstate, build new roads and replace bridges around here for years. The Enviro people have until now always stopped it. Always filing new lawsuits, always demanding more-n-more impact studies etc. Ultimately we need much of this, so by all means go ahead, but I think the economic impact will be minor.

2. Doling out $500 chunks? Didn't seem to do much the last time. I doubt it will the next time.

3. A $3,000 credit for new employees? I've gotta agree with those who say good luck with that doing much. It's too small an amount to provide much motivation for new employees you weren't gonna hire anyway. And why new employees when you can't sell the products you're making now? It makes no sense.

4. Shaving a bit off the withholding tables so employees get a little more take home pay? Many don't think that'll do much either.

Me, I don't have any better ideas ATM so I think the politicians, while feeling the pressure to do something quickly, are in a pretty tough spot.

I'm afraid we're gonna blow a lot of money and have very little bang-for-the-buck to show for it - other than a much bigger deficit.

And I think Obama is finding out that platitudes are popular, but real policy is far more difficult. So far, looks to me like he's not just caving to the pressure of his party but trying to do what he honestly thinks best. I applaude that and wish him luck.

Fern
 
Fern, that's exactly the problem people have with it. Wanna cut taxes and save the economy?

1) Eliminate personal income tax for one quarter or more
2) Cut capital gains to zero
3) Cut or elminate corporate income taxes for 6 months

That's tax cuts I can believe in and their economic affects would be immediate. Giving handouts to people who don't even pay taxes is just wrong and will accomplish nothing.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Fern, that's exactly the problem people have with it. Wanna cut taxes and save the economy?

1) Eliminate personal income tax for one quarter or more
2) Cut capital gains to zero
3) Cut or elminate corporate income taxes for 6 months

That's tax cuts I can believe in and their economic affects would be immediate. Giving handouts to people who don't even pay taxes is just wrong and will accomplish nothing.

Sounds like you should have voted for Ron Paul. 😛
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Fern, that's exactly the problem people have with it. Wanna cut taxes and save the economy?

1) Eliminate personal income tax for one quarter or more
2) Cut capital gains to zero
3) Cut or elminate corporate income taxes for 6 months

That's tax cuts I can believe in and their economic affects would be immediate. Giving handouts to people who don't even pay taxes is just wrong and will accomplish nothing.

Heh I dreamt last night I was telling Obama instead of $1 trillion contractor lottery, make 2009 a grace period for personal income tax.
 
Yeh, winnar, every one of the people who received aid because of Katrina blew it on booze... every last dime.

If you believe that, you'll believe any sort of tripe offered up by the pundits of the Right Fringe.

And spidey07's contentions aren't really any better. Today's capital gains rates are the lowest they've been in the whole postwar period, and have been that way since 2001- which led us into this whole bubble mess in the first place. More of the same will merely yield more of the same, not less.

The reason that the rightwing opposes taxcuts for the middle class is that such will necessitate tax increases at the top, cut into the mega-incomes of those who formulate and promulgate rightwing economic concepts. Billionaire greed obviously knows no bounds, otherwise they wouldn't be billionaires, after all...

The problem is that what works well for them doesn't work well for the rest of us, which has become obvious, given that they've never done better even as the rest of us have to cut back. Not that their raving fanbois have the slightest chance of figuring that out- all they have to do is believe, not think.
 
Jhhnn,

That's pretty funny. Of all the analysis of the bubble never has it been mentioned that lower capital gains was in any way responsible. And of course I'm against any increases at "the top" - I'm the top according to Obama and I ain't rich. There is no single way better to fix our economic mess than "bold and swift" action, and that action is across the board cuts for all. NOT handouts.
 
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Attack the poster instead of commenting on the story?

I can see where the next 4 years are headed....

So true. When anything semi-critical of BHO or liberals it's pretty much SOP for the libs here to DUHvert to Bush, the source, or the person who dared post the information.
 
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