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Democratic Party - Clueless & Feckless - is the D party done?

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imported_tajmahal said:
But, but, but, President Biden is as sharp as a tack! How can you say he was a senile old man not capable of running for another term!
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Playing with yourself in public? Looks like at least pcgeek is entertained. Good for you guys.

Not knowing there is a HUGE chasm between "sharp as a tack" and "senile old man" is why conservative "humor" falls so flat. It's all black and white with you rubes. Zero capacity for nuance.
 
DisarmedDespot said:
The Dems can offer progressive economics, stronger unions, increased paternity leave and improved mental health access. I'm not sure what else can be offered, really.
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They've largely campaigned on this and pushed for these things. Perhaps voters aren't actually secretly progressive at all.
 
Brainonska511 said:
They've largely campaigned on this and pushed for these things. Perhaps voters aren't actually secretly progressive at all.
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I've long characterized the American electorate as center-right (or more accurately, just right of center). IMO this hasn't changed a whole lot since the Clinton presidency and the 2024 elections seemingly showed that the majority DGAF about progressive issues. Who wants progress when wealth trickles up, while golden showers trickle down?

Although I feel Harris could have done a better job at communicating to the disgruntled masses*, the fact that they'll vote against self-interests decade after decade defies any simple solution.

* When polls show a very strong anti-incumbent vibe, you cannot say you wouldn't have changed a thing from the past 4 years. I value loyalty, but Joe Biden is retiring anyway so who cares if you ruffle his feathers a bit.
 
Yea, I was just looking over the final results again. If Harris had won the blue wall states, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, she would have had exactly 270 EV, and would have won. It would have taken only about 200,000 votes combined from those 3 states to have flipped them blue. So Harris could have pulled off the traditional Rep way of winning: winning the EC but losing the popular vote. Wouldn't that have been sweet???

One always will have to wonder had Biden dropped out sooner whether the Dems could have found a better candidate (less closely tied to Biden), or at least given Harris more time and a stronger endorsement overall. The war in Gaza was also very damaging politically, as there is a large Muslim population in Michigan (Detroit at least), and it also pretty much eliminated Shapiro as a VP candidate, which would have been the obvious choice to gain support in Pennsylvania.
 
ondma said:
Yea, I was just looking over the final results again. If Harris had won the blue wall states, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, she would have had exactly 270 EV, and would have won. It would have taken only about 200,000 votes combined from those 3 states to have flipped them blue. So Harris could have pulled off the traditional Rep way of winning: winning the EC but losing the popular vote. Wouldn't that have been sweet???

One always will have to wonder had Biden dropped out sooner whether the Dems could have found a better candidate (less closely tied to Biden), or at least given Harris more time and a stronger endorsement overall. The war in Gaza was also very damaging politically, as there is a large Muslim population in Michigan (Detroit at least), and it also pretty much eliminated Shapiro as a VP candidate, which would have been the obvious choice to gain support in Pennsylvania.
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Good let’s see how that Muslim population likes Trump.
Elections have consequences.
 
ondma said:
Yea, I was just looking over the final results again. If Harris had won the blue wall states, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, she would have had exactly 270 EV, and would have won. It would have taken only about 200,000 votes combined from those 3 states to have flipped them blue. So Harris could have pulled off the traditional Rep way of winning: winning the EC but losing the popular vote. Wouldn't that have been sweet???

One always will have to wonder had Biden dropped out sooner whether the Dems could have found a better candidate (less closely tied to Biden), or at least given Harris more time and a stronger endorsement overall. The war in Gaza was also very damaging politically, as there is a large Muslim population in Michigan (Detroit at least), and it also pretty much eliminated Shapiro as a VP candidate, which would have been the obvious choice to gain support in Pennsylvania.
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If we had contested primaries, Harris isn't the nominee. I don't know who would be but presumably someone who doesn't lose the national PV to a felon.

Harris went 0/7 in the battlegrounds. Maybe Shapiro for VP wins us PA, but there's not much to suggest we actually flip all three: PA/MI/WI. Not impossible but unlikely IMHO.

Finally, recall that the peak of the Harris campaign was after the only debate. Some folks here were absolutely giddy in late September that she had about a 3 point polling lead. Others predicted heavy blue turnout and a perhaps even a wave election for Dems. Obviously it's unknowable but who's to say more time even helps Harris? It seems like undecided voters just drifted away from her after late September.

We kinda know why, but the outcome shouldn't be all that surprising. Racism and misogyny were undoubtedly huge factors.
 
manly said:
If we had contested primaries, Harris isn't the nominee. I don't know who would be but presumably someone who doesn't lose the national PV to a felon.

Harris went 0/7 in the battlegrounds. Maybe Shapiro for VP wins us PA, but there's not much to suggest we actually flip all three: PA/MI/WI. Not impossible but unlikely IMHO.

Finally, recall that the peak of the Harris campaign was after the only debate. Some folks here were absolutely giddy in late September that she had about a 3 point polling lead. Others predicted heavy blue turnout and a perhaps even a wave election for Dems. Obviously it's unknowable but who's to say more time even helps Harris? It seems like undecided voters just drifted away from her after late September.

We kinda know why, but the outcome shouldn't be all that surprising. Racism and misogyny were undoubtedly huge factors.
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National PV doesn't mean a win in the electoral college. You can win EC with as little as 20% PV in the right places
 
Fenixgoon said:
National PV doesn't mean a win in the electoral college. You can win EC with as little as 20% PV in the right places
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I know how the EC works and theoretical anomalies as I've bolded are completely irrelevant. Very few people had predicted Trump would win the PV.

My main point was that Harris (in hindsight) had a severe uphill battle, it was somewhat difficult to see this 7 weeks ago, and while it was kinda close in a few states, it wasn't drawn out like 2020. The expectation was that PA would take a few days to call, but by Wednesday morning, we already knew Donny was the President-Elect.

In the context of a close election, it was a decisive loss for us (esp. when you also throw in the Senate flips).
 
Fanatical Meat said:
Good let’s see how that Muslim population likes Trump.
Elections have consequences.
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Of course I agree. I never did get the Muslim, and for the matter the far left Dem, backlash against Biden/Harris over GAZA. They may not like what is happening, but it was a binary choice, and Trump will be far worse.
 
manly said:
I know how the EC works and theoretical anomalies as I've bolded are completely irrelevant. Very few people had predicted Trump would win the PV.

My main point was that Harris (in hindsight) had a severe uphill battle, it was somewhat difficult to see this 7 weeks ago, and while it was kinda close in a few states, it wasn't drawn out like 2020. The expectation was that PA would take a few days to call, but by Wednesday morning, we already knew Donny was the President-Elect.

In the context of a close election, it was a decisive loss for us (esp. when you also throw in the Senate flips).
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Probably good to note the Republicans did not have a clue to the overall environment either since they left a number of their own for dead in terms of funding. So it was more "voters were crankier than expected" than the GOP ran a masterful election strategy.

The only senate flip that was a surprise was PA and due to the low electoral efficiency of votes the Rs received they're going to have an even slimmer house margin. Could have been way worse if Biden was still the candidate.
 
dank69 said:
Playing with yourself in public? Looks like at least pcgeek is entertained. Good for you guys.

Not knowing there is a HUGE chasm between "sharp as a tack" and "senile old man" is why conservative "humor" falls so flat. It's all black and white with you rubes. Zero capacity for nuance.
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Conservatives more than liberals are motivated by fear, they are sensitive to anything that would reflect negatively on their ego. This is why they gravitate toward black and white thinking. Nuance is the equivalent to uncertainty and black and white is easy and safe. People are motivated to avoid anything suggesting emotional pain and particularly that something might be wrong with them. That's a can of worms so deep even liberals won't go very far there. That's for the odd ball here and there who is driven by the sense that something of off in life and want to know why they have that feeling.

Here and there one can be exposed to deep feeling people perhaps through their need to express themselves artistically. Owing to the film The Day the Earth Stood Still that I saw as a child of seven or eight, I have sense known that humanity is insane. I think that opened lots of doors and raised lots of questions.
 
Hearing that Rahm Emmanuel wants to make a run for DNC chair.

Exactly what the Dems need - a has been/never was from a bygone Obama era that they keep thinking will come back.

These idiots are not our friends. What a shit, useless party.
 
gothuevos said:
Hearing that Rahm Emmanuel wants to make a run for DNC chair.

Exactly what the Dems need - a has been/never was from a bygone Obama era that they keep thinking will come back.

These idiots are not our friends. What a shit, useless party.
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A bit harsh there??? I actually don't think Emmanuel is that bad; at least he has name recognition. I had to actually look up who is the current chairman of the DNC, so he hasnt really made much of an impression either, and the results of the last election speak for themselves. The Dems try, and their intentions are generally good, but they certainly need to improve the platform/message to middle class working people and rural voters.
 
gothuevos said:
Hearing that Rahm Emmanuel wants to make a run for DNC chair.

Exactly what the Dems need - a has been/never was from a bygone Obama era that they keep thinking will come back.

These idiots are not our friends. What a shit, useless party.
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The party is full of people who think like you, who blame everything under the sun but themselves and I think I'm going to blame you for that.
 
ondma said:
A bit harsh there??? I actually don't think Emmanuel is that bad; at least he has name recognition. I had to actually look up who is the current chairman of the DNC, so he hasnt really made much of an impression either, and the results of the last election speak for themselves. The Dems try, and their intentions are generally good, but they certainly need to improve the platform/message to middle class working people and rural voters.
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Haha see above
 
gothuevos said:
Hearing that Rahm Emmanuel wants to make a run for DNC chair.

Exactly what the Dems need - a has been/never was from a bygone Obama era that they keep thinking will come back.

These idiots are not our friends. What a shit, useless party.
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I'm thinking the Dem party is complicit and would rather have fascism than Bernie Sanders.

And if you think Hochul and Adams are going to oppose Trump.. they're silently green lighting the deportations of migrants that've turned New York in a purple state!
 
Indus said:
I'm thinking the Dem party is complicit and would rather have fascism than Bernie Sanders.

And if you think Hochul and Adams are going to oppose Trump.. they're silently green lighting the deportations of migrants that've turned New York in a purple state!
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I have nothing against Hochul, but Adams was on The View yesterday. What a devious, slimy piece of crap.
 
Indus said:
I'm thinking the Dem party is complicit and would rather have fascism than Bernie Sanders.

And if you think Hochul and Adams are going to oppose Trump.. they're silently green lighting the deportations of migrants that've turned New York in a purple state!
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You drinking today?
 
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