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Democratic Party - Clueless & Feckless - is the D party done?

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Indus said:
Yeah I'm beginning to agree.. I don't want to be part of this experiment anymore.

I want a reset. Hell I'd happily pay 40% taxes and have universal healthcare like Canada.

P.S. Canada can you please annex New York? We'd love to sing O Canada!
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Maybe as a territory like Guam or Puerto Rico with no voting rights, i don't think Canadians would want to go further to the right (Democrats are mostly to the right of the conservatives in Canada)
 
KMFJD said:
Maybe as a territory like Guam or Puerto Rico with no voting rights, i don't think Canadians would want to go further to the right (Democrats are mostly to the right of the conservatives in Canada)
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I don't know where people get this idea from, but the median Democrat is not to the right of conservative parties in other countries.
 
K1052 said:
Some reports emerging that there are not 60 votes for cloture on the CR. Meaning the Rs can't find enough D votes.

Senate Dems plan to press for truly clean 30 day CR.
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My understanding is that at this point the House has adjourned and most have left DC. I don't know if the House can get a new CR passed before Friday night.
The whole thing was intentional to force the Senate to pass the House's version of the CR.
 
SMOGZINN said:
My understanding is that at this point the House has adjourned and most have left DC. I don't know if the House can get a new CR passed before Friday night.
The whole thing was intentional to force the Senate to pass the House's version of the CR.
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I'm sure the idea was to jam the Senate Ds so that they would vote even though it sucks. So far that does not appear to be working out. From the Senate R side there is some concern about the Ds jamming up the floor procedurally if they try to get on the bill.
 
SMOGZINN said:
My understanding is that at this point the House has adjourned and most have left DC. I don't know if the House can get a new CR passed before Friday night.
The whole thing was intentional to force the Senate to pass the House's version of the CR.
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Force the house to pass the clean one by unanimous consent. Doesn't need everyone present
 
Brainonska511 said:
So the Democrats in the Senate are not going to go along with cloture on the shitty CR, and say they'll only go with the 1-month, genuinely clean one proposed by House Democrats.

A lot of Internet rage generated today by a rando who claimed Schumer was whipping for "yes" on cloture.
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- So long as Dems can keep their messaging clean as well, I support it.

Time to turn all the Republican messaging around "If you don't have the votes to go it alone, you have to compromise with the minority party" etc etc etc.
 
GodisanAtheist said:
- So long as Dems can keep their messaging clean as well, I support it.

Time to turn all the Republican messaging around "If you don't have the votes to go it alone, you have to compromise with the minority party" etc etc etc.
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Yes. I think they have the messaging here. They have a clean CR proposed to cover them on "wanting a shutdown", and they can push the current CR into Republicans as a partisan gambit.

And from there, people should help socialize the messages that seem to resonate. Find the people that seem to be the better communicators, and boost them.

As much as we might want to gripe about intraparty issues (and there will be plenty of time for primaries), there is a larger battle for public opinion. Public opinion takes time to turn, so helping to get the message out, letting people see Trump's policies for what they are, helps to build the public support needed for Democrats and could undercut some of the more weak-kneed Republicans.

The long run, it's worth stating publicly that most Democrats are fighting for the public's interest. There were definitely strategic mistakes with some nominees early on, and you can't blame all Democrats for the nonsense of Fetterman.

We want and need the public to hate Republicans and those policies, not throw their hands up and scream "a pox on both houses."
 
Brainonska511 said:
So the Democrats in the Senate are not going to go along with cloture on the shitty CR, and say they'll only go with the 1-month, genuinely clean one proposed by House Democrats.

A lot of Internet rage generated today by a rando who claimed Schumer was whipping for "yes" on cloture.
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You do realize that AOC literally posted earlier today that the Senate was starting to head towards helping it pass.

You do know these reports are often based on sources as well. But she also literally posted it. Are you saying AOC just made it all up? And everyone else?

I mean it's not like they're saying anything out of character for the absolutely feckless and pathetic leadership we've been seeing lately. Seems like a solid story to me
 
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MrSquished said:
You do realize that AOC literally posted earlier today that the Senate was starting to head towards helping it pass.

You do know these reports are often based on sources as well. But she also literally posted it. Are you saying AOC just made it all up? And everyone else?

I mean it's not like they're saying anything out of character for the absolutely feckless and pathetic leadership we've been seeing lately. Seems like a solid story to me
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She said some appeared to be wavering, but public statements seemed pretty ambiguous in that front. The only one I saw was Fetterman being a shithead. The rest seemed to be playing more of a game of strategic ambiguity or just saying they wouldn't support the CR.

For a government shutdown, with a press that lives by Murc's law, why make the story about "Dems want to shutdown the government" before the actual showdown.

People should be calling anyway to keep the pressure up and supporting their reps to stand against Republican bullshit.

Just keep being mad at everyone though.
 
Brainonska511 said:
If that is a strategy, that's really dumb.
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It's also seemingly optimized to make the D base thermonuclear angry at them because it appears dishonest. Any incumbent D senator up next year voting for cloture is going to catch absolute hell from primary voters and any house Ds looking to move up can say "I voted no on this POS bill". This does not seem like a good plan at all, if it is the plan.
 
K1052 said:
It's also seemingly optimized to make the D base thermonuclear angry at them because it appears dishonest. Any incumbent D senator up next year voting for cloture is going to catch absolute hell from primary voters and any house Ds looking to move up can say "I voted no on this POS bill". This does not seem like a good plan at all, if it is the plan.
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It sounds like we're not getting the whole story behind the current internal discussions or strategy, and fractured, hypothetical floated scenarios delivered by social media seems only useful for unnecessarily raising everyone's blood pressure.
 
Brainonska511 said:
It sounds like we're not getting the whole story behind the current internal discussions or strategy, and fractured, hypothetical floated scenarios delivered by social media seems only useful for unnecessarily raising everyone's blood pressure.
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Yes, I think the scant reportage on internal D deliberations is being taken advantage of by perhaps some people to whip up opposition to the CR. I am not particularly upset about it because this is politics baby and fighting fair while tut tutting about decorum or whatever is something I'm long past now.
 
Brainonska511 said:
She said some appeared to be wavering, but public statements seemed pretty ambiguous in that front. The only one I saw was Fetterman being a shithead. The rest seemed to be playing more of a game of strategic ambiguity or just saying they wouldn't support the CR.

For a government shutdown, with a press that lives by Murc's law, why make the story about "Dems want to shutdown the government" before the actual showdown.

People should be calling anyway to keep the pressure up and supporting their reps to stand against Republican bullshit.

Just keep being mad at everyone though.
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I trust AOC a hell of a lot more than I trust the Democratic leadership which has shown me nothing at all, no reason to have any faith in them. It's only been a relative handful of Dems that have shown any sense in them.

Right now the Democratic leadership deserves absolutely no leeway and absolutely no expectation that oh they're going to do the right thing. Like zero
 
MrSquished said:
I trust AOC a hell of a lot more than I trust the Democratic leadership which has shown me nothing at all, no reason to have any faith in them. It's only been a relative handful of Dems that have shown any sense in them.

Right now the Democratic leadership deserves absolutely no leeway and absolutely no expectation that oh they're going to do the right thing. Like zero
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House Dem leadership kept everybody in line except for Golden (not a huge shock). Also delivered every single D vote against the R budget resolution. Jeffries is much better at counting votes than he is at the performative politics end of his job where he manages to constantly enrage the party's base by yapping ineffectually.

As for the Senate...we'll see.
 
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