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Democratic Party - Clueless & Feckless - is the D party done?

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Easy for this Kulinski guy to criticize. I agree, the Dems need to be more vocal and forceful. However, that will be ineffective if their policies do not appeal to the electorate. I am not familiar with the guy, and dont really know all his policies, but the Dems have to get past blaming people in their own party and take a hard look at their policies that so put off the voters that they would turn to an egotistical, dictatorial madman like Trump.
 
ondma said:
Easy for this Kulinski guy to criticize. I agree, the Dems need to be more vocal and forceful. However, that will be ineffective if their policies do not appeal to the electorate. I am not familiar with the guy, and dont really know all his policies, but the Dems have to get past blaming people in their own party and take a hard look at their policies that so put off the voters that they would turn to an egotistical, dictatorial madman like Trump.
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The issue has forever been that Democrats are focused on getting re-elected and it takes money to do it. They depend on liberal voters and conservative business money and it's the latter their most concerned about pleasing. It's getting attention because they lose. I voted for a Republican senator way back when for this reason instead of Dianne Feinstein. Why not vote for the one who says they're Republican over one who votes that way. Politics is the art of the possible and the possible politicians look for is the possibility of getting reelected.
 
ondma said:
Easy for this Kulinski guy to criticize. I agree, the Dems need to be more vocal and forceful. However, that will be ineffective if their policies do not appeal to the electorate. I am not familiar with the guy, and dont really know all his policies, but the Dems have to get past blaming people in their own party and take a hard look at their policies that so put off the voters that they would turn to an egotistical, dictatorial madman like Trump.
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so we are allowed to look inward at policy but nothing else. That's amazing logic.

Also, btw, overall, Dem policies are more popular. Minus probably trans rights and a couple others. But overall Dem policies are favored more than not.

So literally the single place you want to allow the Dem party to self-examine itself is the one where they are probably doing the best at so far.
 
ondma said:
Easy for this Kulinski guy to criticize. I agree, the Dems need to be more vocal and forceful. However, that will be ineffective if their policies do not appeal to the electorate. I am not familiar with the guy, and dont really know all his policies, but the Dems have to get past blaming people in their own party and take a hard look at their policies that so put off the voters that they would turn to an egotistical, dictatorial madman like Trump.
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You think the median voter has a clue about policy? lol
They are vibes voters, for now anyway. They really don't think that elections mean a lot to them but R austerity is probably going to be a wake up call for a fair number.

When polled Dem policies typically enjoy wide approval.
 
K1052 said:
When polled Dem policies typically enjoy wide approval.
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And yet the voters seem to be absolutely mystified as to how we would obtain Dem policies. They elected a fossil with no Congress. Gee, why didn't that fix everything over night. Quick, let's pull the rug out from the most feeble and meager of attempts at getting the policy we want. I know, let's just sit home and let MAGA run amok, what's the worst that could happen? Ha... ha... ha....

I dunno man, maybe the American people are just cooked.
They have been utterly incapable of opposing the fascist Nazi takeover.
 
K1052 said:
You think the median voter has a clue about policy? lol
They are vibes voters, for now anyway. They really don't think that elections mean a lot to them but R austerity is probably going to be a wake up call for a fair number.

When polled Dem policies typically enjoy wide approval.
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Well, I would argue that this wasn't a typical election. The border/immigration was a huge issue (which the Dems bungled), and people were fed up with an over-emphasis on DEI/gender issues. In addition, there was just a general feeling of malaise, apprehension and fear that somehow the world was out of control. The voter wanted change. Well, they got it in spades, and our country is in deep, deep trouble.
 
ondma said:
Well, I would argue that this wasn't a typical election. The border/immigration was a huge issue (which the Dems bungled), and people were fed up with an over-emphasis on DEI/gender issues. In addition, there was just a general feeling of malaise, apprehension and fear that somehow the world was out of control. The voter wanted change. Well, they got it in spades, and our country is in deep, deep trouble.
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People were fed up with what effectively was a mass hallucination event.
 
K1052 said:
You think the median voter has a clue about policy? lol
They are vibes voters, for now anyway. They really don't think that elections mean a lot to them but R austerity is probably going to be a wake up call for a fair number.

When polled Dem policies typically enjoy wide approval.
Click to expand...
So do social democratic policies like Medicare for all that are way to the left of the right wing democrat party. I don't get this idea that people won't vote for good policy. The Democrats didn't run on policy, they ran on a normalcy that people don't like (surprise, neoliberalism isn't popular) and on Trump being a piece of shit. They should have been screaming from the rooftops about the $2000 out of pocket cap they successfully put on Medicare Part D. Grandma doesn't go bankrupt if she needs chemo is a pretty easy idea to run on.
 
To answer @MrSquished 's preposition in the title, yes, Dems are out in the desert at this point. The party isn't even a shambolic wreck, it's fucking AWOL.

I think the biggest issue Dems are going to run into is that it's going to be hard to tie Trump's actions with the negative effects on the ground, because the people that are going to be the most hurt are already the most invisible. If poeple don't personally feel pain, the people won't care. We're not dealing with "The Greatest Generation" here, who saw poverty and injustice and fought to right them. It's slacktivists top to to bottom.

Right now Trump is actually popular, with some polls actually putting him at a positive approval rating. It's basically a full-throated rejection of the last 80 years of America. How do Dems message against that? They can't. Every time I see someone try it's laughable, like some basement dwelling nerd shouting about how his D&D barbarian is cooler with the ladies than the Team Captain who is drowning in cheerleader pussy.

The best case for the Dems is unfortunately the worst case for the rest of us: between an absence of migrant labor, tariffs, dogshit foreign policy, and plutocratic wealth hording, we see the floor fall out from under the precariously perched economy and everyone takes it in the pipe. That is a clean and easy message any pol knows how to run on because everyone feels it right in the wallet.

IMO Dems are potentially doing the tactically right thing here (as slimy as it feels). Until Americans actually feel bad as a result of Trump's policies, it's all just going to be yelling at a wall. In fact, the quieter Dems are, the harder it is to pin Trump's failures on them. Make sure Trump is front and center, hard to say there is some coalition or resistance that is preventing him from accomplishing his goals or undermining his policy agenda when... there really isn't one.
 
ondma said:
Well, I would argue that this wasn't a typical election. The border/immigration was a huge issue (which the Dems bungled), and people were fed up with an over-emphasis on DEI/gender issues. In addition, there was just a general feeling of malaise, apprehension and fear that somehow the world was out of control. The voter wanted change. Well, they got it in spades, and our country is in deep, deep trouble.
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As we forget Trump completely pulled the legs out from an agreed to immigration legislation, but continue with the hatred of the only party that's going to help you.
 
K1052 said:
You think the median voter has a clue about policy? lol
They are vibes voters, for now anyway. They really don't think that elections mean a lot to them but R austerity is probably going to be a wake up call for a fair number.

When polled Dem policies typically enjoy wide approval.
Click to expand...

It won't be. You guys are delusional.

Much like the OP and his "the Dems are to blame for Republicans!" dipshittery that just leads to him constantly undermining attempts to build a coalition to stop white supremacists taking over the government. He suffers from all the shit he projects and is as delusional as Republican voters are now. Its sad seeing how ignorant, and how delusional, you guys are, never more than the fact that you seem to genuinely believe you're less delusional than conservatives.
 
Franz316 said:
I couldn't believe he took such a defeatist attitude. If that's the mindset of the party then the Dems provide no hope for things to change.
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Look at this board. People are posting shit like "welp, I'm just gonna sit by and let this happen". The Democrats follow America.

Its not like any of you assholes put skin in the game and then you're surprised Democrats didn't fight for you? You're not even willing to fight for yourself, let alone others. You get what you give and welp, this is what you're getting because that's what you gave. Fucking nothing.

I've been telling the people on this forum that since I started posting in this subforum, back in like 2015 when half the guys on here were going "yeah, I know the Republicans are literally Nazi wannabes, but I don't know about the Democrats, they could be worse, I can't be bothered to just look at how they've voted on issues, what policies they've implemented or attempted to implement when voted in, so I guess I'm gonna have to vote Republican". You guys are every bit as deluded as Republicans, and neither of you are willing to look in the mirror. But you know what? They took action, you guys are just sitting here with your thumbs up your asses blaming anyone but yourselves so you can I guess pat yourselves on the back for letting this happen. At some point you guys need to take ownership of your roles in this. Or don't, and then be the Germans living right next to concentration camps, marched in all the while you go "I didn't know this was happening, I swear!" Bullshit. You knew, you did nothing.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
Look at this board. People are posting shit like "welp, I'm just gonna sit by and let this happen". The Democrats follow America.

Its not like any of you assholes put skin in the game and then you're surprised Democrats didn't fight for you? You're not even willing to fight for yourself, let alone others. You get what you give and welp, this is what you're getting because that's what you gave. Fucking nothing.

I've been telling the people on this forum that since I started posting in this subforum, back in like 2015 when half the guys on here were going "yeah, I know the Republicans are literally Nazi wannabes, but I don't know about the Democrats, they could be worse, I can't be bothered to just look at how they've voted on issues, what policies they've implemented or attempted to implement when voted in, so I guess I'm gonna have to vote Republican". You guys are every bit as deluded as Republicans, and neither of you are willing to look in the mirror. But you know what? They took action, you guys are just sitting here with your thumbs up your asses blaming anyone but yourselves so you can I guess pat yourselves on the back for letting this happen. At some point you guys need to take ownership of your roles in this. Or don't, and then be the Germans living right next to concentration camps, marched in all the while you go "I didn't know this was happening, I swear!" Bullshit. You knew, you did nothing.
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- Dude America knows who Donald Trump is, as well as all the people around him are, and resoundingly voted him into office.

Screaming that the dude is a fascist and a Nazi from the rooftops got him elected, might be a good time to sit back and take stock of the situation until you have something meaty and actionable to work with.
 
hal2kilo said:
As we forget Trump completely pulled the legs out from an agreed to immigration legislation, but continue with the hatred of the only party that's going to help you.
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I don't hate the Dems as much as Squished!! Actually, I dont hate the dems at all. I do think they are politically inept, have lost touch with a good portion of the electorate, and they clearly "misread the room" in the last election. Obviously, they are a far less destructive (if not particularly inspiring) alternative to Trump. That is actually the problem, come down to it. A lot of voters (justified or not) were frustrated, scared and feeling threatened in the last election. Trump was able to manipulate and exploit that, while all the Dems offered was more of the same, and "at least I'm not Trump."

Edit: as for immigration: the Dems could not possibly have handled it more ineptly. They complained that they could not take any action, because Trump torpedoed the border bill. Yet, in June 2024, Biden signed an executive order which shut down immigration after 2500 per day had crossed and making it more difficult to obtain protection as an asylum seeker, allowing for easier deportation. This did have the effect of reducing crossings. But it was a political disaster, because it simply made Biden look like a liar for claiming that they could do nothing without a border bill. Turns out they could do something, but they didn't do until it was obvious they were getting killed politically on the issue.
 
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ondma said:
I don't hate the Dems as much as Squished!! Actually, I dont hate the dems at all. I do think they are politically inept, have lost touch with a good portion of the electorate, and they clearly "misread the room" in the last election. Obviously, they are a far less destructive (if not particularly inspiring) alternative to Trump. That is actually the problem, come down to it. A lot of voters (justified or not) were frustrated, scared and feeling threatened in the last election. Trump was able to manipulate and exploit that, while all the Dems offered was more of the same, and "at least I'm not Trump."

Edit: as for immigration: the Dems could not possibly have handled it more ineptly. They complained that they could not take any action, because Trump torpedoed the border bill. Yet, in June 2024, Biden signed an executive order which shut down immigration after 2500 per day had crossed and making it more difficult to obtain protection as an asylum seeker, allowing for easier deportation. This did have the effect of reducing crossings. But it was a political disaster, because it simply made Biden look like a liar for claiming that they could do nothing without a border bill. Turns out they could do something, but they didn't do until it was obvious they were getting killed politically on the issue.
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If you think that level of knowledge is something the average American voter had…well…you are going to be severely disappointed when Dems get better massaging and end up with the same results.

Most Americans aren’t even aware of border bills brought up in Congress let alone know what the issue with the border is and you think one of Biden’s fatal flaws was how he played politics with the border? Lol
 
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