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Democrat plan to raise taxes to fight climate change

ProfJohn

Lifer
Dingell seems to have become confused as to what is more important to the Democrats, helping the poor or fighting global warming.

A 50 cent increase in the gas tax and an increase in energy costs via a ?carbon tax? will hurt the poor while having very little impact on the wealthy.

This whole things looks like some convoluted effect to appear to take action, but not really doing anything of value.

They are going to increase gas taxes and then use it to build more highways; that will really drive consumption down.

I hope more Democrats suggest plans like this. Will help to reeducate the American people as to why they voted the Democrats out of office in 1994.
WaPo article
Dealing with global warming will be painful, says one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress. To back up his claim he is proposing a recipe many people won't like _ a 50-cent gasoline tax, a carbon tax and scaling back tax breaks for some home owners.

"I'm trying to have everybody understand that this is going to cost and that it's going to have a measure of pain that you're not going to like," Rep. John Dingell, who is marking his 52nd year in Congress, said Wednesday in an interview with The Associated Press.

Dingell will offer a "discussion draft" outlining his tax proposals on Thursday, the same day that President Bush holds a two-day conference to discuss voluntary efforts to combat climate change.

But Dingell, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee that will craft climate legislation, is making it clear that he believes tackling global warming will require a lot more if it is to be taken seriously.

"This is going to cause pain," he said, adding that he wants to make certain "the pain is shared in a way that is fair, proper, acceptable and accomplishes the basic purpose" of reducing greenhouse gases, mainly carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels.

Dingell said he's not sure what the final climate package will include when the House takes it up for a vote. The taxes measures he's proposing, in fact, will be taken up by another House committee. And the Senate is considering a market-based system that would set an economy-wide ceiling on the amount of carbon dioxide that would be allowed to be released.

Dingell says he hasn't rule out such a so-called "cap-and-trade" system, either, but that at least for now he wants to float what he believes is a better idea. He will propose for discussion:

_A 50-cent-a-gallon tax on gasoline and jet fuel, phased in over five years, on top of existing taxes.

_A tax on carbon, at $50 a ton, released from burning coal, petroleum or natural gas.

_Phaseout of the interest tax deduction on home mortgages for homes over 3,000 square feet. Owners would keep most of the deduction for homes at the lower end of the scale, but it would be eliminated entirely for homes of 4,200 feet or more.

He estimates that would affect 10 percent of homeowners. He says "it's only fair" to tax those who buy large suburban houses and create urban sprawl. Historic and farm houses would be exempted.

Some of the revenue would be used to reduce payroll taxes, but most would go elsewhere including for highway construction, mass transit, paying for Social Security and health programs and to help the poor pay energy bills.

In the interview Wednesday, Dingell acknowledged he's tackling some of the most sacred of political cows. He's not sure if they will end up in the climate legislation, but he wants to open them for discussion.

"All my friends tell me you can't do this, it's going to be political poison," said Dingell, 81, who has served longer in the House than any of his colleagues and heads one of the chamber's most powerful committees.

Widely known for protecting the automakers who are so prominent in his state, the Michigan Democrat first raised the tax ideas this summer. Some people immediately suggested he was offering proposals he knows won't pass to sidestep other issues such as automobile fuel economy increases.

Dingell rejects such criticism and said he wants to trigger "an intelligent discussion of the whole question."

Many economists have long maintained that a carbon tax is a more-efficient, less-bureaucratic way to reduce the emissions of carbon dioxide than a cap-and-trade system, which could be difficult to administer.

A carbon tax would impact everything from the cost of electricity to winter heating and add to the cost of gasoline and other motor fuels. But economists say a cap on carbon also would raise these costs as burning fossil fuels becomes more expensive.

Such tax proposals have gained little traction.

Rep. Pete Starke, D-Calif., has been trying unsuccessfully to get a carbon tax for 16 years. In the early 1990s the House passed a modest "BTU" tax on the heat content of fuels, only to have it die in the Senate. Dingell acknowledged that there are still people who blame the Democrats' loss of Congress in 1994 on the ill-fated tax.

The federal 18.4-cent gasoline tax also has been a subject of discussion, but not about increasing it. As gasoline prices soared above $3 a gallon last year a chorus of lawmakers called for suspending the tax.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Magic 8 Ball sez

"This will go no where"
Do you have a special magic 8 ball? Mine doesn't have that option.
Maybe we can design special Democrat and Republican magic 8 balls?

The Democrat one will answer ?raise taxes? to every question.

The Republican one will answer ?invade them? to every question.
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Magic 8 Ball sez

"This will go no where"
Do you have a special magic 8 ball? Mine doesn't have that option.
Maybe we can design special Democrat and Republican magic 8 balls?

The Democrat one will answer ?raise taxes? to every question.

The Republican one will answer ?invade them? to every question.

No, mine doesn't care about political parties. This isn't going anywhere because it includes the infamous tax hike on homes and as you say a tax hike on gas which would hurt the Dems base. Consequently Dingell will find little support for this, and the Reps won't touch it.

Therefore "This isn't going anywhere" is one I'll stick with.
 
This wont go anywhere.

While people dont care about increasing sin taxes, they will care about raising tax on gas, and the carbon tax. Even if this managed to pass the House, the Senate would never EVER pass it.

 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Maybe they will bundle it with the cheaper 190B for the war.

Really, at least the rich would be forced to kick in some for the false war for the oil they went to secure.
 
Go, Pete, go.

LA Times Editorial

[The best approach is] a carbon tax. While cap-and-trade creates opportunities for cheating, leads to unpredictable fluctuations in energy prices and does nothing to offset high power costs for consumers, carbon taxes can be structured to sidestep all those problems while providing a more reliable market incentive to produce clean-energy technology.

There is a growing consensus among economists around the world that a carbon tax is the best way to combat global warming, and there are prominent backers across the political spectrum, from N. Gregory Mankiw, former chairman of the Bush administration's Council on Economic Advisors, and former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan to former Vice President Al Gore and Sierra Club head Carl Pope. Yet the political consensus is going in a very different direction. European leaders are pushing hard for the United States and other countries to join their failed carbon-trading scheme, and there are no fewer than five bills before Congress that would impose a federal cap-and-trade system. On the other side, there is just one lonely bill in the House, from Rep. Pete Stark (D-Fremont), to impose a carbon tax, and it's not expected to go far.

The obvious reason is that, for voters, taxes are radioactive, while carbon trading sounds like something that just affects utilities and big corporations. The many green politicians stumping for cap-and-trade seldom point out that such a system would result in higher and less predictable power bills. Ironically, even though a carbon tax could cost voters less, cap-and-trade is being sold as the more consumer-friendly approach.

A well-designed, well-monitored carbon-trading scheme could deeply reduce greenhouse gases with less economic damage than pure regulation. But it's not the best way, and it is so complex that it would probably take many years to iron out all the wrinkles. Voters might well embrace carbon taxes if political leaders were more honest about the comparative costs.

The world is under a deadline. Some scientists believe that once atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have doubled from the pre-industrial level, which may happen by mid-century if no action is taken, the damage may be irreversible.
 
yeah, not like starting an endless war to take money away from American people. And lives too!!!! I'd go with the Democrats...
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Magic 8 Ball sez

"This will go no where"

It got posted by P&N's very own Karl Rove clone

guess that makes him millions of time superior to you. Your a clone of what? What my dog dropped in the yard? Your ideas seem to be about as useful, let alone your comments.
 
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Magic 8 Ball sez

"This will go no where"

It got posted by P&N's very own Karl Rove clone

guess that makes him millions of time superior to you. Your a clone of what? What my dog dropped in the yard? Your ideas seem to be about as useful, let alone your comments.

"You're dog doodie and so are your words"

Yah, great comeback. 😀
 
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Magic 8 Ball sez

"This will go no where"

It got posted by P&N's very own Karl Rove clone

guess that makes him millions of time superior to you. Your a clone of what? What my dog dropped in the yard? Your ideas seem to be about as useful, let alone your comments.

"You're dog doodie and so are your words"

Yah, great comeback. 😀

I've asked if PJ is a Mod.
 
I'd follow the money trail on this one, especially the carbon tax. Chances are real high this guy has recieved donations from companies or individuals highly invested in renewable resources or nuclear energy. In other words they buy this douche off to hurt their competitors who are on natural gas or coal by adding cost to the competitors bottom line via the carbon tax.

 
I just can't understand why or how the government should get more taxes to spend (fooleshly as usual) because MMGW may exist. (they are not even spending the g*d d*mn money on developing alt energy tech). I really really don't get the concept, or why so many of you (and others) discuss this as if it were somehow *normal*?

Let's solve immigration, just raise taxes and spend it on earmarks.

Let's solve crime by raising taxes etc.

let's solve healthcare by raising more taxes etc.

Reminds me of the assinine proposal to ween ourselves of oil and kill off fuel powered autos by charging a $4 (or whatever ridiculous amount) tax per gallon. Do we really need to send Washington DC billions more in revenue (to waste) in an effort to get rid of gasoline auto's? Why? Just F'ing outlaw them if you want. Of course, the polititions won't like that simple idea, doesn't raise any revenue for them to play *big Shot* with.

Disgusting.

Fern
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Magic 8 Ball sez

"This will go no where"

It got posted by P&N's very own Karl Rove clone

guess that makes him millions of time superior to you. Your a clone of what? What my dog dropped in the yard? Your ideas seem to be about as useful, let alone your comments.

"You're dog doodie and so are your words"

Yah, great comeback. 😀

I've asked if PJ is a Mod.

He's not a mod.
 
I see that a lot of people are considering themselves conservatives because they are against raising taxes, if the same people were against spending all would be good and well but they are not.

See, you don't get something for nothing, you can tax and spend or spend and let your own arse get into the pair of clippers it is in now, will the US have the gall to critizise China about it's veto regarding Burma? The answer is no because they know very well that the Chinese communist dictatorship which is a great and honorable ally in economy with the US (regardless of their daily human violations) could break US's economic back in an instant if they so wished.

Congrats, your own leadership have sold the spine of your country to a communist dictatorship to do with as they please.
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
A liberal's answer to any problem is always "raise taxes".

How many times do we have to say that raising taxes is better than raising the debt ceiling and having to raise taxes later!? We WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE IRAQ OCCUPATION EVENTUALLY!
 
Originally posted by: Pabster
A liberal's answer to any problem is always "raise taxes".

Gets really old doesnt it? It is also a simpletons answer to a problem. Imagine if I had a spending problem. Instead of cutting back on items I dont need or are wasteful I went to my boss and demanded a raise to cover my wasteful spending.

You think the boss would say sure or do you think he would laugh me out of his office?

So why do we as the bosses of the money supply for these douchebags continue to say yes?
 
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

-snip-

will the US have the gall to critizise China about it's veto regarding Burma? The answer is no because they know very well that the Chinese communist dictatorship which is a great and honorable ally in economy with the US (regardless of their daily human violations) could break US's economic back in an instant if they so wished.

-snip-

.

You're on some kinda roll today. I saw you post elsewhere that the USA's only chance is if the UN enters Iraq. But I digress...

Please do explain how China "could break the US's economic back in an instant if they wished".

TIA,

Fern
 
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

-snip-

will the US have the gall to critizise China about it's veto regarding Burma? The answer is no because they know very well that the Chinese communist dictatorship which is a great and honorable ally in economy with the US (regardless of their daily human violations) could break US's economic back in an instant if they so wished.

-snip-

.

You're on some kinda roll today. I saw you post elsewhere that the USA's only chance is if the UN enters Iraq. But I digress...

Please do explain how China "could break the US's economic back in an instant if they wished".

TIA,

Fern

I have an idea what his response will be. Lets see if he makes the mistake.
 
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: Pabster
A liberal's answer to any problem is always "raise taxes".

How many times do we have to say that raising taxes is better than raising the debt ceiling and having to raise taxes later!? We WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE IRAQ OCCUPATION EVENTUALLY!

WTF are you talking about?

THIS IS NOT AN IRAQ THREAD. It's a GW tax, read above to see where the tax money will be spent on stuff like roads etc, not reducing the deficit.

Fern
 
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