Right. Anyone with a brain can see the constant flow of pro-Hillary propaganda across the mainstream media. It's been consistent and heavy. The reason you're seeing more negative stories now and questions being asked is that - after last night's performance - they can't keep her under wraps anymore. The sheep are starting to ask questions...
I disagree, and I'd add that, even if that were true, it would still be preferable to a party that has been smearing America for decades.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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Now Nebor goes delusional with---This isn't going to be the landslide victory you're making it out to be. Have you checked the Iowa Electronic Markets lately? There's less than a 10% gap between Republicans and Democrats to win the Presidency.
Iowa is basically a red State with not many votes. All the dems have to do is hold their blue state base and get a few red states and its game set and match in 08. You need to look at populous Red States when reading the tea leaves. There is the old saying, as Ohio goes so goes the nation, no one ever said as Iowa goes so goes the nation.
In 2000, Florida was the deciding state for the electoral college, in 04 it was Ohio. In 08, Virginia, Ohio, and Florida will all be in play and leaning democratic. And if Iowa goes democratic, its a republican death nell.
Iowa is basically a red State with not many votes. All the dems have to do is hold their blue state base and get a few red states and its game set and match in 08. You need to look at populous Red States when reading the tea leaves. There is the old saying, as Ohio goes so goes the nation, no one ever said as Iowa goes so goes the nation.
In 2000, Florida was the deciding state for the electoral college, in 04 it was Ohio. In 08, Virginia, Ohio, and Florida will all be in play and leaning democratic. And if Iowa goes democratic, its a republican death nell.
- Sep 30, 2003
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I don't Matthews cares for either Clinton that much. I don't see him as an HRC fan at all.
I've been thinking there's that New Dem v. Traditional Dem thing at work here.
Matthews is a Tip O'Neil kinda (old) Dem.
I saw him compare HRC's Iraq policy to that of GWB and said the Dems outta quit complaining about GWB's war policy if they like HRC's cuz there just isn't any difference.
Seemed pretty harsh to me, and I doubt the HRC campaign apreciated it. I suspect he's on the "outs" with them.
Fern
Now you're being delusional, as usual, Lemon.
"Iowa is basically a red State" ... oh, really? Last I checked, with the exception of Bush in 2004, Iowa hadn't been a "Red State" for 20 years.
You are right that Iowa isn't a critical state electoral vote-wise. Which is why the founders created the Electoral College, to prevent the populous states from shutting out the smaller ones. Iowa may not make or break an election, but it can (and has) made (or broken) candidates running for President.
First
Lifer
- Jun 3, 2002
- 10,518
- 271
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These conspiracy theories about Clinton make you look worse than UFO nuts that claim we're talking to aliens on earth. Clinton has been criticized consistently in the media, particularly the opinion shows on CNN and MSNBC. You just don't watch them so you're not aware of what's going on.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
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Pabster still does not get it when saying-------You are right that Iowa isn't a critical state electoral vote-wise. Which is why the founders created the Electoral College, to prevent the populous states from shutting out the smaller ones. Iowa may not make or break an election, but it can (and has) made (or broken) candidates running for President.
I agree that the 1/3/08 Iowa Caucasus may make or break various candidacies and possibly thin the respective democratic and republican fields, but the dems have a plethora of candidates that will appeal to their base for the general election. And when you want to talk the strongest Republican candidate in Giuliani, its very very doubtful he will even carry his home state of New York in the general election. And if Giuliani fails to win the New York GOP primary, conventional political wisdom is that his candidacy is doomed. And without Giuliani, the Repubs are stuck with running from the far righting in general election.
I agree that the 1/3/08 Iowa Caucasus may make or break various candidacies and possibly thin the respective democratic and republican fields, but the dems have a plethora of candidates that will appeal to their base for the general election. And when you want to talk the strongest Republican candidate in Giuliani, its very very doubtful he will even carry his home state of New York in the general election. And if Giuliani fails to win the New York GOP primary, conventional political wisdom is that his candidacy is doomed. And without Giuliani, the Repubs are stuck with running from the far righting in general election.
Except CNN and MSNBC are cable channels. I'm talking about CBS, ABC, NBC, et al. which anyone can get - free. You'd be surprised how many people get (ALL) their "news" from these sources.
So it'll be far-right against far-left. Most Americans are in the Center. So how does that give your heroes a better shot?
And, just a day later, Hillary Embraces Spitzer's Illegal Immigrant License Plans
PS the pic of her with boxing gloves on is priceless. Bill better watch out :laugh:
PS the pic of her with boxing gloves on is priceless. Bill better watch out :laugh:
Nebor
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2003
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Read before you speak. You clearly have no idea what the Iowa Electronic Market is (hint: it's not limited to Iowa, just based there.) It has predicted the outcome of every election since it's inception with a 100% accuracy rate.
Maybe you should learn a thing or two about politics before you start arguing them.
You must mean the party that's responsible for smearing the blood and guts of 3,842 American troops into the ground in Iraq for their LIES as of 10/30/07 8:33 pm EDT.
:rose
Nebor
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2003
- 29,582
- 12
- 76
Originally posted by: Harvey
You must mean the party that, as of 10/30/07 8:33 pm EDT, has smeared the blood of 3,842 American troops blood and guts into the ground in Iraq for their LIES.
COMMANDER IN THIEF! WAR OF LIES! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN?! THE BABY SEALS ARE DYING!!!
Could we get some more irrational emotional appeals in here? Please?
:lips: my (_|_)
Absolutely nothing has been more disastrous for this nation than the TREASON and MURDER committed by the TRAITOR IN CHIEF, his criminal cabal. Anyone who votes for any candidate who still supports them is as guilty of their crimes as they are.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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Your delusion is that the dems are running from the far left label you want to try to portray.
The only really leftist candidates the dems have is Kucinich. And Hillary, Obama, and Edwards are main stream moderates. And add Dodd, Richardson, and Biden as well.
In contrast, with the exception of Giuliani and Paul, the rest of the Republican field are running to the far right. They appeal to the maybe 15% of the population far right republican base, and almost no one else.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Must be exciting living so far from the center that you have no concept of the middle.
In fact, judging by Present standards, someone like Nixon would be a flaming liberal. America has been drifting rightward politically, the dismantling of liberal reforms can only prompt a left wards drift as income disparities leave more and more behind.
Republican far right policies are flat out not working. Look at present gas prices and public debt, savings rates, and housing problems. Real wages have been falling for some time now.
Rhetoric can only go so far in fooling most of the American public. GWB has been an economic disaster financed by 3 trillion of added public debt. Now the dollar is falling like a stone against other major currencies and the days of cheap imports will be ending.
At one point, Hillary became very forceful and I realized she DOES have what it takes to do the job. And she made her point, and she was right, and stern but not Al Gore cocky.
I was impressed to see her make a point she knew she was right about, very forceful and stern, yet very professional.
Edwards is a lawyer, Hillary is a lawyer too (or once was). It looked like, lawyer to lawyer, Edwards met his match and then some. I'd love to see them in court going against each other.
I'm looking closely to see which one she might pick as a running mate. Obama may be shooting himself in the foot to keep harping on her, at this point.
The whole debate was like a gang bang against Hillary. And to me it just shows there are people that simple think being President is still a "man only" job.
There attacks and anger had no reasoning beyond that.
And then theres that alien space ship guy... What was THAT all about???
It is the press even asking questions like that, that shows the press has lost their direction.
Might as well call themselves "NBC, Nightly Tabloid News".
Looks like our media is gearing up to make the 2008 race a circus. Who cares about issues.
I was impressed to see her make a point she knew she was right about, very forceful and stern, yet very professional.
Edwards is a lawyer, Hillary is a lawyer too (or once was). It looked like, lawyer to lawyer, Edwards met his match and then some. I'd love to see them in court going against each other.
I'm looking closely to see which one she might pick as a running mate. Obama may be shooting himself in the foot to keep harping on her, at this point.
The whole debate was like a gang bang against Hillary. And to me it just shows there are people that simple think being President is still a "man only" job.
There attacks and anger had no reasoning beyond that.
And then theres that alien space ship guy... What was THAT all about???
It is the press even asking questions like that, that shows the press has lost their direction.
Might as well call themselves "NBC, Nightly Tabloid News".
Looks like our media is gearing up to make the 2008 race a circus. Who cares about issues.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
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Factcheck does all the legwork including verifying claims with campaign staff and examining studies and figures quoted by candidates. Cited statistical analysis sources are gibberish to me and I suspect to most people.
Factcheck's independent take on Clinton's debate claims:
Hillary's High-Stepping
October 31, 2007
The Democratic front-runner bobs and weaves at a candidate debate in Philadelphia.
Summary
At a Democratic debate in Philadelphia, Sen. Hillary Clinton ducked some questions and gave misleading answers to others.
1. She falsely implied that the reason White House documents about her communications with her husband haven't been released is due to bureaucratic delays, and she avoided saying whether she would ask Bill Clinton to clear their release from the National Archives.
2. She avoided a yes-or-no answer to whether she supports giving New York driver's licenses to illegal immigrants and at one point denied saying the idea made sense, when in fact she said less than two weeks earlier that it "makes a lot of sense."
3. She avoided saying what, if anything, she would do about Social Security taxes or benefits, saying a commission should study the system "if" it has problems, and saying that acting as though the troubled system is in "crisis" is "a Republican trap."
Full article here: http://www.factcheck.org/elect...rys_high-stepping.html
The Daily Show also did a bit the other night about how she was on the fence on each answer. I think as the front runner she's trying to play it safe, but I think she's playing it TOO safe. I doubt this will hurt her very much, but it still doesn't look good to not articulate a clear position on a host of issues.
Factcheck's independent take on Clinton's debate claims:
Hillary's High-Stepping
October 31, 2007
The Democratic front-runner bobs and weaves at a candidate debate in Philadelphia.
Summary
At a Democratic debate in Philadelphia, Sen. Hillary Clinton ducked some questions and gave misleading answers to others.
1. She falsely implied that the reason White House documents about her communications with her husband haven't been released is due to bureaucratic delays, and she avoided saying whether she would ask Bill Clinton to clear their release from the National Archives.
2. She avoided a yes-or-no answer to whether she supports giving New York driver's licenses to illegal immigrants and at one point denied saying the idea made sense, when in fact she said less than two weeks earlier that it "makes a lot of sense."
3. She avoided saying what, if anything, she would do about Social Security taxes or benefits, saying a commission should study the system "if" it has problems, and saying that acting as though the troubled system is in "crisis" is "a Republican trap."
Full article here: http://www.factcheck.org/elect...rys_high-stepping.html
The Daily Show also did a bit the other night about how she was on the fence on each answer. I think as the front runner she's trying to play it safe, but I think she's playing it TOO safe. I doubt this will hurt her very much, but it still doesn't look good to not articulate a clear position on a host of issues.
Originally posted by: Nebor
Read before you speak. You clearly have no idea what the Iowa Electronic Market is (hint: it's not limited to Iowa, just based there.) It has predicted the outcome of every election since it's inception with a 100% accuracy rate.
Maybe you should learn a thing or two about politics before you start arguing them.
It was wrong once or twice, not 100% but close.
Now that Colbert has officially registered to run, will he be invited to the debates? I would really like to see him debate against/make a mockery of the other candidates. Yes, I'm completely serious.
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