Demigod: So much for piracy

[mindcycle]

Demigod debuts at #3 for top selling PC games at retail ? bearing in mind that that was a partial week and that the majority of units sold were digital sales which weren?t counted.

But?but?what about those hundreds of thousands of pirates? Yep. Demigod is heavily pirated. And make no mistake, piracy pisses me off. If you?re playing a pirated copy right now, if you?re one of those people on Hamachi or GameRanger playing a pirated copy and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you?re a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way.

The reality that most PC game publishers ignore is that there are people who buy games and people who don?t buy games. The focus of a business is to increase its sales. My job, as CEO of Stardock, is not to fight worldwide piracy no matter how much it aggravates me personally. My job is to maximize the sales of my product and service and I do that by focusing on the people who pay my salary ? our customers.

Even Demigod, a game that shipped with no copy protection on the DVD, was massively pirated, and has had, to put it mildly severe launch issues with its multiplayer match-making which has had a negative impact on its Metacritic score has still managed to debut at the top of retail sales charts (not counting our digital sales).

Why is that? At that point I can only speculate but the first reason is pretty straight forward: Demigod is an awesome game. Second, while the multiplayer matchmaking that comes with the game currently sucks, our customers know it will get fixed. Part of that is the demographic of Stardock customers. They?re more experienced, they know that some of the issues with the MP matchmaking aren?t due to rushing the game out or negligence but rather the fact that complicated systems sometimes don?t scale well and there is no substitute for time when it comes to fix them.

When the focus of energy is put on customers rather than fighting pirates, you end up with more sales. It seems common sense to me but then again, I?m just an engineer.

Read the whole post here: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/349758

 

[Bob Ghengis Khan]

When the focus of energy is put on customers rather than fighting pirates, you end up with more sales. It seems common sense to me but then again, I?m just an engineer.

When a company contracts out DRM from another company like Starforce, its not like theyre spending energy that would otherwise be used to make a better game. It's another company that has nothing to do with the game programmers. It's not really a tradeoff, like what can I have, gameplay or copy protection.

Not that I enjoy being limited to 3 activations, or whatever else. But just saying.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Considering the rest of the week's list.....well, 3rd ain't so impressive. This isn't a high competition week. And they still got beat out by a Sims expansion and a WoW expansion.

Well, good luck to them anyway. I'll never buy another Stardock game, for the very simple reason that I've bought 2, and they both kind of sucked.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Considering the rest of the week's list.....well, 3rd ain't so impressive. This isn't a high competition week. And they still got beat out by a Sims expansion and a WoW expansion.

Well, good luck to them anyway. I'll never buy another Stardock game, for the very simple reason that I've bought 2, and they both kind of sucked.

Which are both part of two of the best selling games series in PC history?


Also, Sins of a Solar and Empire and Demigod are two of the best games I've ever played, so, wtf?

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

You must've played a different version of Sins then I got.
I got the version where, ironically, Pirates were the most powerful force in the entire universe.

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Considering the rest of the week's list.....well, 3rd ain't so impressive. This isn't a high competition week. And they still got beat out by a Sims expansion and a WoW expansion.

Well, good luck to them anyway. I'll never buy another Stardock game, for the very simple reason that I've bought 2, and they both kind of sucked.

Which are both part of two of the best selling games series in PC history?


Also, Sins of a Solar and Empire and Demigod are two of the best games I've ever played, so, wtf?

You're serious? Demigod is such a bad game... It tries to be DOTA and fails miserably. Too few items, too few characters and too few maps. It also runs pretty bad and doesn't look great for such a taxing game.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Bob Ghengis Khan
When a company contracts out DRM from another company like Starforce, its not like theyre spending energy that would otherwise be used to make a better game. It's not really a tradeoff, like what can I have, gameplay or copy protection.

Actually, it is a trade off for smaller devs. They're not necessarily spending energy (you're right), but they are spending money which could be spent in other ways. Like more beta testing, hiring another employee, licensing technology, etc..

Plus, why waste money on something that doesn't work?

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Bob Ghengis Khan
When a company contracts out DRM from another company like Starforce, its not like theyre spending energy that would otherwise be used to make a better game. It's not really a tradeoff, like what can I have, gameplay or copy protection.

Actually, it is a trade off for smaller devs. They're not necessarily spending energy (you're right), but they are spending money which could be spent in other ways. Like more beta testing, hiring another employee, licensing technology, etc..

Plus, why waste money on something that doesn't work?

It works to an extent. It's just to make all the wimpy-pirates go buy the game or not play it. The real pro pirates, people who do this a ton, have real dedication to makin' it work and they would never buy the game anyway. Although if the game has serious kickass multiplayer and no LAN/TCP-IP option... Pirates might buy it. That's the biggest detour to piracy. Make kickass online gameplay that requires a non-generatorable CD Keys and give no LAN option. Seriously. Best way to combat piracy...

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Yeah.. Us chumps who would rather simply play games instead of dealing with the potential hassles of poorly designed DRM.

I'm glad that he's still talking about DRM and piracy, since it's an important topic IMO. Once all PC publishers drop draconian DRM then his position may not hold much water. But right now he is definitely gaining more fans by taking the anti-(invasive)DRM approach, and I support that approach 100%.

 

[TidusZ]

Demigod's a sick game it just has terrible connection issues. If those are fixed it will be excellent.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
It works to an extent. It's just to make all the wimpy-pirates go buy the game or not play it.

Like the average Joe Schmoe who wants to play his friends copy? I can see DRM as possibly helping in that case, but harsher DRM (like install limit SecuROM or similar) isn't anymore effective then a simple disc check or a serial number if your level of knowledge is.. "I want to pirate this game, but my burned copy won't work!"

Plus, if Joe Schmoe has the internet, chances are he can figure out how to download a game if he really wants to. So in the majority of piracy cases (the ones the industry can track and are concerned about), DRM is 100% ineffective at stopping piracy.

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
The real pro pirates, people who do this a ton, have real dedication to makin' it work and they would never buy the game anyway.

But the real pro pirates aren't going anywhere, and piracy is getting easier and easier for your average Joe Schmoe. So again I ask.. why waste money on DRM that doesn't really work? Sell your actual customers a better product so they'll continue buying from you and tell they're friends to buy from you. Don't waste money on people who aren't going to pay for your product anyway.

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555
Although if the game has serious kickass multiplayer and no LAN/TCP-IP option... Pirates might buy it. That's the biggest detour to piracy. Make kickass online gameplay that requires a non-generatorable CD Keys and give no LAN option. Seriously. Best way to combat piracy...

I agree.

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: TidusZ
Demigod's a sick game it just has terrible connection issues. If those are fixed it will be excellent.

Have you ever played Dota?

Dota>Demigod.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Yeah.. Us chumps who would rather simply play games instead of dealing with the potential hassles of poorly designed DRM.

I'm glad that he's still talking about DRM and piracy, since it's an important topic IMO. Once all PC publishers drop draconian DRM then his position may not hold much water. But right now he is definitely gaining more fans by taking the anti-(invasive)DRM approach, and I support that approach 100%.

If it were about the games, we wouldn't be celebrating it's lack of DRM. We'd be saying "No DRM, no bitching, hows the game?". But we ain't, are we? We're sitting here in another stardock "No-DRM yay" wankfest.

Yeah, yeah. Sorry, but I'm calling it like I see it, and I see a politician making talking points, not someone who actually cares. And why should he? Low budget developer doesn't need massive sales to recoup their smaller investment.

For me though, it is about the games, and Stardock has failed me one time too many.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
If it were about the games, we wouldn't be celebrating it's lack of DRM. We'd be saying "No DRM, no bitching, hows the game?". But we ain't, are we? We're sitting here in another stardock "No-DRM yay" wankfest.

Yeah, yeah. Sorry, but I'm calling it like I see it, and I see a politician making talking points, not someone who actually cares. And why should he? Low budget developer doesn't need massive sales to recoup their smaller investment.

For me though, it is about the games, and Stardock has failed me one time too many.

Alright, I see your point. I do believe that Brad actually does care about his customers experience, but it is impossible to know the exact motivation behind his stance on DRM. I'm guessing it's probably a little from both sides, but I also remember reading a statement from him where he says just that.

And yes, it should be all about the games. That's why I'm all about dropping draconian DRM so we can focus more on the actual games again.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: Bob Ghengis Khan

When the focus of energy is put on customers rather than fighting pirates, you end up with more sales. It seems common sense to me but then again, I?m just an engineer.

When a company contracts out DRM from another company like Starforce, its not like theyre spending energy that would otherwise be used to make a better game. It's another company that has nothing to do with the game programmers. It's not really a tradeoff, like what can I have, gameplay or copy protection.

Not that I enjoy being limited to 3 activations, or whatever else. But just saying.

Yea, Starforce gives them DRM for free so the company developing the game has more time and resources to devote towards the game. Though since I have no idea what the actual price tag is for 3rd party DRM it could range from "drop in the bucket" to "omfg, what are you guys thinking?".

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
You must've played a different version of Sins then I got.
I got the version where, ironically, Pirates were the most powerful force in the entire universe.

Now you see, pirates for me are a safe source of XP for my capitals. They are a resource, not a major threat. That statement makes you a very bad judge of this game for others. Now if you identify what aspects of the game make it not enjoyable for you to play then fine, but "it's too hard" does not apply to everyone.

Sure they can be trouble at the start, but they do not scale up worth mentioning as you build up your forces. A few turrets with a repair bay, a trading network (they love chasing the trade ships), and a small response fleet will work effectively at covering several planets from pirate attacks if they are not focusing on one planet.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Considering the rest of the week's list.....well, 3rd ain't so impressive. This isn't a high competition week. And they still got beat out by a Sims expansion and a WoW expansion.

Well, good luck to them anyway. I'll never buy another Stardock game, for the very simple reason that I've bought 2, and they both kind of sucked.

I've bought two as well.
Gal Civ 2 was interesting, but the research and combat was so utterly boring I'd rather they just left it as a diplomacy game.
Sins was actually rather fun as a multiplayer game. I've only ever played sins on a lan, and it's slow paced enough that everyone can keep up.
I passed on demigod though, doesn't look interesting at all.

BTW, Demigod seems to have been heavily pirated.
And stardock's anti DRM rants are kind of funny considering they now employ a steam style drm system that requires per computer activation for games and requires you to be logged in on an account to get updates. And stardock's games are generally so unbalanced/broken that you need the updates to make the game enjoyable.

You must've played a different version of Sins then I got.
I got the version where, ironically, Pirates were the most powerful force in the entire universe.

Pirates are actually a joke once you know what you're doing. They're free exp early on, and later on it's quite simple to wipe out their entire base. They can be a hassle though on maps with multiple nearby planets to the pirate base, you never know which planet they'll attack and it's not cost effective to place defenses at all of them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: TidusZ
Demigod's a sick game it just has terrible connection issues. If those are fixed it will be excellent.

Have you ever played Dota?

Dota>Demigod.

Dota is great if you're good at Dota. but if you're not, you're almost immediately ostracized for being a relative newb.

Demigod is a little bit slower, but just as enjoyable, IMO. the graphics are just a plus

whoever complained about the graphics is a retard. i'm running 1920x1080 on medium with a 2600XT 256mb just fine, and it's a relatively craptacular card.

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: TidusZ
Demigod's a sick game it just has terrible connection issues. If those are fixed it will be excellent.

Have you ever played Dota?

Dota>Demigod.

Dota is great if you're good at Dota. but if you're not, you're almost immediately ostracized for being a relative newb.

Demigod is a little bit slower, but just as enjoyable, IMO. the graphics are just a plus

whoever complained about the graphics is a retard. i'm running 1920x1080 on medium with a 2600XT 256mb just fine, and it's a relatively craptacular card.

I'm running at 1920x1200 with a 4850 512mb crossfire... E7200 @ 3.56Ghz... 3GB of ram... I never get sim speed 10. Game is so CPU intensive even though barely anything is going on.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: TidusZ
Demigod's a sick game it just has terrible connection issues. If those are fixed it will be excellent.

Have you ever played Dota?

Dota>Demigod.

Dota is great if you're good at Dota. but if you're not, you're almost immediately ostracized for being a relative newb.

Demigod is a little bit slower, but just as enjoyable, IMO. the graphics are just a plus

whoever complained about the graphics is a retard. i'm running 1920x1080 on medium with a 2600XT 256mb just fine, and it's a relatively craptacular card.

I'm running at 1920x1200 with a 4850 512mb crossfire... E7200 @ 3.56Ghz... 3GB of ram... I never get sim speed 10. Game is so CPU intensive even though barely anything is going on.

it wouldn't surprise me if crossfire was the source of your problems.

i have an E4300 stock, 2gigs of DDR2 667, and the 2600xt.

 

[lupi]

if he goes through with being able to pull your CDkey from games you register at stardock then i'll believe him more.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Bob Ghengis Khan
When a company contracts out DRM from another company like Starforce, its not like theyre spending energy that would otherwise be used to make a better game. It's not really a tradeoff, like what can I have, gameplay or copy protection.

Actually, it is a trade off for smaller devs. They're not necessarily spending energy (you're right), but they are spending money which could be spent in other ways. Like more beta testing, hiring another employee, licensing technology, etc..

Plus, why waste money on something that doesn't work?

Developers don't pick (or pay for) DRM, publishers do. Very very few developers can afford to self-publish.

 

[TidusZ]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: TidusZ
Demigod's a sick game it just has terrible connection issues. If those are fixed it will be excellent.

Have you ever played Dota?

Dota>Demigod.

I've played DoTA since 2004 - A LOT. I think if DoTA had 1920x1200, improved macros for items (do not reply to this with anything having to do with dotakeys, tyvm), and 0 delay in all games (rather than just when hosting) it would be a better game. As it stands those three things, and mostly the last, have killed the game for me. When I host my cs/deny is easily 5x higher than when I don't. I can't compete in leagues or any organized high level play when I can only play my best if I host. Most of the time you aren't allowed to host, so it was fine for just noobstomping with friends. Some people can adapt their timing or they don't really notice .5-1sec delays on a good host, but for me I almost always have the highest cs, its my strength, and I lose that perfect timing if I'm not the host. It's a game breaker.

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
You must've played a different version of Sins then I got.
I got the version where, ironically, Pirates were the most powerful force in the entire universe.

Now you see, pirates for me are a safe source of XP for my capitals. They are a resource, not a major threat. That statement makes you a very bad judge of this game for others. Now if you identify what aspects of the game make it not enjoyable for you to play then fine, but "it's too hard" does not apply to everyone.

Sure they can be trouble at the start, but they do not scale up worth mentioning as you build up your forces. A few turrets with a repair bay, a trading network (they love chasing the trade ships), and a small response fleet will work effectively at covering several planets from pirate attacks if they are not focusing on one planet.

Dear Sir:

The 'universe' in question was a straight line with me at one end and the computer at the other, with the pirates dead smack in the middle camped on the only route.

Since any ships that get away in one of their attacks proceeds back to their homeworld and hung around, by the time I had enough ships to even consider an actual attack, I sauntered into their system and saw what can only be described as a battle of endor worthy fleet.

It didn't leave to attack, ever - once they return home, they stay there - and it had more ships then I could hope to build. Step into the system, 80 ships swarm the second I jump in, with the slower armada behind them.

Wasn't fun. Shouldn't have been able to happen, period. Poor design. Uninstalled.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Oh look, Stardock is anti-DRM whoring again. Nothing like a marketing department playing to the chumps.

Considering the rest of the week's list.....well, 3rd ain't so impressive. This isn't a high competition week. And they still got beat out by a Sims expansion and a WoW expansion.

Well, good luck to them anyway. I'll never buy another Stardock game, for the very simple reason that I've bought 2, and they both kind of sucked.

Which are both part of two of the best selling games series in PC history?


Also, Sins of a Solar and Empire and Demigod are two of the best games I've ever played, so, wtf?

You're serious? Demigod is such a bad game... It tries to be DOTA and fails miserably. Too few items, too few characters and too few maps. It also runs pretty bad and doesn't look great for such a taxing game.

Taxing? It was chugging on my friends 6200 integrated chip, but it ran. Hardly taxing. I cruise at a solid 60 fps (locked with vsync) max settings with my rig. (Literally 0 dips)