Dem Congressman: Obama Confused About Power to Reschedule Pot

[rudeguy]

Calling him Dear Leader makes you look like a fool.

Which is disappointing. Usually I like your posts in OT.

have you not seen how people treat him in this forum. Its scary how similar it is to how N Koreans treat Kim Dumb Ass. You can choose to ignore it, I choose to point it out. To each his own.

 

[fskimospy]

have you not seen how people treat him in this forum. Its scary how similar it is to how N Koreans treat Kim Dumb Ass. You can choose to ignore it, I choose to point it out. To each his own.

If you actually think it is anything even remotely close to that you have almost no knowledge of North Korea or the US.

He is right, you make yourself look bad when you say things like that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If you actually think it is anything even remotely close to that you have almost no knowledge of North Korea or the US.

He is right, you make yourself look bad when you say things like that.

It's hyperbole, but there are people who go through bizarre contortions in order to justify whatever is done. This thread has one member in particular which I perversely enjoy seeing trounced for his unswerving fealty. You may recall "Bushistas". With the level of propaganda in NK it's not hard to imagine that many drink the Kool Aid, as the saying goes.

 

[rudeguy]

If you actually think it is anything even remotely close to that you have almost no knowledge of North Korea or the US.

He is right, you make yourself look bad when you say things like that.

I freely admit that everything I know about N Korean culture comes from a documentary I saw about a doctor who went to NK. I should probably clarify:

There are people in this forum who treat Obama like the people in that documentary treated Kim Dumb Shit.

 

[fskimospy]

I freely admit that everything I know about N Korean culture comes from a documentary I saw about a doctor who went to NK. I should probably clarify:

There are people in this forum who treat Obama like the people in that documentary treated Kim Dumb Shit.

Can you name them? I have seen no prayers to pictures of Obama, I have seen no declarations that they will give their entire life in Obama's service, etc, etc.

You seem like you could be a reasonable enough guy, but it's hard to take what someone says seriously when they compare Obama to a murderous, cultlike dictator.

 

[rudeguy]

Can you name them? I have seen no prayers to pictures of Obama, I have seen no declarations that they will give their entire life in Obama's service, etc, etc.

You seem like you could be a reasonable enough guy, but it's hard to take what someone says seriously when they compare Obama to a murderous, cultlike dictator.

well lets take your description: murderous and cult like dictator.

We all know how Obama feels about killing Americans without due process.

The cult like is the part that scares me. So many got caught up in his hype during his first campaign and ended up into cult like status. A lot have backed off but there are still many who treat him like some type of messiah. Its actually scary to hear them or read their words.

The dictator part is too easy. A dictator is a ruler who does not rule through democratic means. Obama has stated that he is willing to do just that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

well lets take your description: murderous and cult like dictator.

We all know how Obama feels about killing Americans without due process.

The cult like is the part that scares me. So many got caught up in his hype during his first campaign and ended up into cult like status. A lot have backed off but there are still many who treat him like some type of messiah. Its actually scary to hear them or read their words.

The dictator part is too easy. A dictator is a ruler who does not rule through democratic means. Obama has stated that he is willing to do just that.

Time to step back. By your criteria every President in memory was a dictator. Bush arrested people without regard to Constitutional due process. I agree that there is a very Ron R cult of personality surrounding Obama, of which I disapprove, but again it's not unique. He's a very good salesman with an audience which does not think critically, but again that makes him the rule, not the exception.

IMO I think that if he didn't follow Bush there'd be as much of an issue with many things. Most people that I know who voted Democratic weren't voting so much for Obama as against Bush and his ilk. Personally I had hoped for change but there wasn't much of that except that once he decided he wanted something by god you were going to get it. That's when the Faithful ignored or minimized hopes for a genuine new start and circled the wagons. That's our failure, not his. Recall when those WMDs which we knew were around Tikrit were never found? Remember those damning aluminum tubes, which Sandia said before the SOTU were not possibly suited for nuclear refinement purposes? The Faithful circled up against those damn injuns then.

In fact other than agenda there's not much which is different at all.

 

[Jhhnn]

How is that a false equivalence? Both are laws where the ability to modify is delegated to the executive branch.

If that is a false equivalence, then there can never be an equivalent. If that is the case, then you are quite a narrow minded liberal.

You miss the point entirely. Obama's powers wrt either one are discretionary. He is not compelled to act in either case.

Just because righties want to drag Obama into this doesn't mean he'll oblige. He's laid out the policy he intends to follow, and there's not a fucking thing his detractors can do about it other than whine.

Such attempts aren't intended to facilitate progress at all, but rather to make Obama the issue. That cuts state level support for legalization among Libertarian types. The whole point, of course, being to thwart legalization & discredit Obama.

At the state level, activists can use citizen initiatives to change state laws & constitutions. That is the proven path to success. That path does not exist at the federal level. Which explains why authoritarians want to move it up to the federal level to create the usual Catch 22.

Obama won't play. I know that's frustrating, because it means that prohibitionists are screwed. They don't have the grass roots support necessary to resist change in more progressive states, & they know it. The only reason they've been able to maintain prohibition is because there have been no successful legalization models implemented. In that absence, they've been able to fear monger continuation of destructive policy. With the Obamites sheltering legalization in 2 states, there will shortly be examples of successful legalization, totally discrediting prohibition.

Devious? Sneaky? Underhanded? Certainly less so than the oppressive & destructive lies that have sustained prohibition for 75 years. Those lies have set the rules of engagement, meaning that prohibitionists have no right to expect total honesty from their opponents. They look a little silly telling us to use the well barricaded front door when we're already in through the back door, anyway, with more coming through shortly. It'll be a helluva lot harder to throw us out than it was to keep us out, bet on that.

 

[fskimospy]

Please. I'd encourage everybody to read all of section B, not just your excerpt, then tell us all how clear it really is.

I think it's important to remember that being empowered doesn't mean compelled. Obama does not have to act on this at all any more than he already has. He's made it clear that he doesn't want to go there w/o Congress, neatly deflecting it back to... the state level, where activists are winning, and where any state instituting MMJ or legalization will be protected from the DEA by the White House.

We'll keep winning, too, if this can be played on the field of states' rights. The chances of losing are greater at the national level, always have been, which is why that's being avoided.

I'm content with the direction & the progress so far. The real objective is to present the next Admin with an irreversible fait accompli, successful citizen sponsored legalization in several states, fostered & enabled by the Obama Admin.

Call it what you want, cast whatever aspersions you will, but that's really what's happening as far as I'm concerned. It's an extremely shrewd set of moves from the Obamites, likely to be a lasting strategic victory for Dems & personal freedom in this country.

Obama doesn't HAVE to change the schedule of marijuana but it is certainly within his administration's power to do so. He does not need Congress to change this.

 

[TerryMathews]

You miss the point entirely. Obama's powers wrt either one are discretionary. He is not compelled to act in either case.

No sir. You miss the point.

First of all, what is and isn’t a Schedule I narcotic is a job for Congress

This is false, by law.

 

[Matt1970]

Please. I'd encourage everybody to read all of section B, not just your excerpt, then tell us all how clear it really is.

I think it's important to remember that being empowered doesn't mean compelled. Obama does not have to act on this at all any more than he already has. He's made it clear that he doesn't want to go there w/o Congress, neatly deflecting it back to... the state level, where activists are winning, and where any state instituting MMJ or legalization will be protected from the DEA by the White House.

We'll keep winning, too, if this can be played on the field of states' rights. The chances of losing are greater at the national level, always have been, which is why that's being avoided.

Oh he made himself very clear you are just refusing to see it. There is thick headed, then there are those who flat out will not see the truth. I would love to put you in the latter, but I think you are taking it to a whole new level here. Congress already weighed in on the matter via the 1970 Controlled Substances Act which grants the attorney general the power to place it "under the schedule he deems most appropriate."

What part of this are you not understanding?

 

[Jhhnn]

Obama doesn't HAVE to change the schedule of marijuana but it is certainly within his administration's power to do so. He does not need Congress to change this.

Like I said before- So What? Obama deflects to Congress, Congress whistles Dixie, state level MMJ & legalization proceed in an ongoing orderly & only slightly sensational fashion.

I think that the Obamites are taking the right tack to enable legalization, all things considered. State level activists and the People will take it from here, with legalized states sheltered from the DEA by the White House. As obvious demonstrable success is achieved in WA, CO & other states, national prohibition will crumble as either Congress is forced to act or until the Executive believes they have full license to act themselves. Part of that license must be achieved at an internal governmental level. The DEA & others need to be brought around slowly to achieve the internal consensus required for effective govt. Limited legalization should accomplish that, because the projections of Doom are completely absurd, always have been. Life in Colorado won't change a helluva lot at all a year from now, other than fewer people busted, money flowing away from the black market to legit enterprise, nice fat tax revenues coming in, more openness about what people are already doing anyway. The DEA & others need to see that to believe it, and we aim to oblige. Obama is giving us just the opportunity we need.

 

[fskimospy]

Doing it this way is the most politically expedient, but that doesn't make it right. Each and every day more lives are needlessly ruined by the war on drugs. Maybe Obama doesn't think all drugs should be decriminalized like I do, but he says he thinks marijuana should be rescheduled. He is choosing to allow more lives to be ruined to avoid a controversial issue in an election year.

It isn't that the republicans are blameless here, their predictable freak out is probably the biggest reason he isn't doing it. (Not to mention their stance on marijuana is generally awful). That doesn't mean that in the end it isn't obamas choice though.

 

[Darwin333]

Obama Confused About Power to Reschedule Pot


The above article, from US News, seemed more neutral than many other articles, for example:

Obama Lies About Federal Marijuana Law to Rolling Stone

Obama responds to DEA criticism by pretending he has no power to curtail the drug war



So what's your opinion?

Is Obama confused?

Or has he received so much money, err campaign contributions, from the prison guards and the trial lawyers that he can't risk alienating them?

Or is he just okay with the Government arresting one person for marijuana every 19 seconds?

Or is it something else?

Uno

Just about all LEO wants it to remain illegal. They make a metric shitpot of money seizing peoples stuff on drug busts.

Funny how before the seizure laws most LEO didn't concern itself very much with what people were doing inside their own homes when it didn't impact anyone else. Then we made it profitable for them to do so and all of a sudden the arrests for drug offenses take a moon shot.

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh he made himself very clear you are just refusing to see it. There is thick headed, then there are those who flat out will not see the truth. I would love to put you in the latter, but I think you are taking it to a whole new level here. Congress already weighed in on the matter via the 1970 Controlled Substances Act which grants the attorney general the power to place it "under the schedule he deems most appropriate."

What part of this are you not understanding?

I understand that completely. OTOH, it's not like Congress lacks the power to act themselves, is it?

I also understand & believe that the current path to legalization is a winner, basically a sure thing. Nobody with a lick of sense will deviate from that path onto another recommended by those who seek to continue prohibition. Obama & Holder seem to know that too. Expect obfuscation & dithering at the federal level in support of successful action at the state level rather than the same thing in support of prohibition.

Or, cry me a river.

 

[Darwin333]

Doing it this way is the most politically expedient, but that doesn't make it right. Each and every day more lives are needlessly ruined by the war on drugs. Maybe Obama doesn't think all drugs should be decriminalized like I do, but he says he thinks marijuana should be rescheduled. He is choosing to allow more lives to be ruined to avoid a controversial issue in an election year.

It isn't that the republicans are blameless here, their predictable freak out is probably the biggest reason he isn't doing it. (Not to mention their stance on marijuana is generally awful). That doesn't mean that in the end it isn't obamas choice though.

Shouldn't that be another reason TO do it, just to stick it to them?

Besides, since when is "some other people who are wrong might get all pissy" an excuse for not doing the right thing?

 

[fskimospy]

Shouldn't that be another reason TO do it, just to stick it to them?

Besides, since when is "some other people who are wrong might get all pissy" an excuse for not doing the right thing?

No, it is that they will use it to attack vulnerable democrats in congress. Just 'pissing them off' is pointless.

I think it is naive to look at every issue in a vacuum, and I understand there is a larger calculation here. In this case I don't think the cost/benefit makes it right to wait, but there are many 'right things' on this planet that are legitimately delayed for other reasons.

 

[Darwin333]

Like I said before- So What? Obama deflects to Congress, Congress whistles Dixie, state level MMJ & legalization proceed in an ongoing orderly & only slightly sensational fashion.

I think that the Obamites are taking the right tack to enable legalization, all things considered. State level activists and the People will take it from here, with legalized states sheltered from the DEA by the White House. As obvious demonstrable success is achieved in WA, CO & other states, national prohibition will crumble as either Congress is forced to act or until the Executive believes they have full license to act themselves. Part of that license must be achieved at an internal governmental level. The DEA & others need to be brought around slowly to achieve the internal consensus required for effective govt. Limited legalization should accomplish that, because the projections of Doom are completely absurd, always have been. Life in Colorado won't change a helluva lot at all a year from now, other than fewer people busted, money flowing away from the black market to legit enterprise, nice fat tax revenues coming in, more openness about what people are already doing anyway. The DEA & others need to see that to believe it, and we aim to oblige. Obama is giving us just the opportunity we need.

Unfortunately the political winds in the White House change rather rapidly. What if Obama does nothing and the next guy ratchets up DEA enforcement and effectively overrules the states laws?

OTOH, if he acts now it is a hellofa lot more politically unfeasible to change the law back than it is to simply tell the DEA to step up enforcement of existing law. That goes 10 fold when all the doom and gloom bullshit doesn't happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

Doing it this way is the most politically expedient, but that doesn't make it right. Each and every day more lives are needlessly ruined by the war on drugs. Maybe Obama doesn't think all drugs should be decriminalized like I do, but he says he thinks marijuana should be rescheduled. He is choosing to allow more lives to be ruined to avoid a controversial issue in an election year.

It isn't that the republicans are blameless here, their predictable freak out is probably the biggest reason he isn't doing it. (Not to mention their stance on marijuana is generally awful). That doesn't mean that in the end it isn't obamas choice though.

Oh, please. All the pious preaching aside, we have established a reality based path to legalization through citizen initiatives at the state level. It works, and I believe it will continue to work. Nothing else has ever been shown to work in the past 46 years since the first time I smoked pot in 1967. But, well, we should reject that because it isn't right, you say? We should try to move it up to the national level w/o a real success story so that the usual fear mongering can hold sway?

Your idealism is touching yet irrelevant. We have real choices that do not include the one you think we should make.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh, please. All the pious preaching aside, we have established a reality based path to legalization through citizen initiatives at the state level. It works, and I believe it will continue to work. Nothing else has ever been shown to work in the past 46 years since the first time I smoked pot in 1967. But, well, we should reject that because it isn't right, you say? We should try to move it up to the national level w/o a real success story so that the usual fear mongering can hold sway?

Your idealism is touching yet irrelevant. We have real choices that do not include the one you think we should make.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Darwin333]

No, it is that they will use it to attack vulnerable democrats in congress. Just 'pissing them off' is pointless.

I disagree. This is an issue that he can take sole responsibility for which would effectively shield those democrats. Obama can't run again so he can take the heat. This is especially true when the other option you gave would be direct action from those democrats.

As far as reasons for not doing the right thing, politics is not and should never be one of those reasons.

 

[Darwin333]

Oh, please. All the pious preaching aside, we have established a reality based path to legalization through citizen initiatives at the state level. It works, and I believe it will continue to work. Nothing else has ever been shown to work in the past 46 years since the first time I smoked pot in 1967. But, well, we should reject that because it isn't right, you say? We should try to move it up to the national level w/o a real success story so that the usual fear mongering can hold sway?

Your idealism is touching yet irrelevant. We have real choices that do not include the one you think we should make.

It sure as hell wouldn't hurt the existing path if the Feds legalized it. I actually couldn't imagine a way it could possibly hurt it. Besides, as I said earlier, just because the current admin isn't using the DEA (to much) to enforce the federal pot laws doesn't mean the next asshole will follow suit.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Obama doesn't HAVE to change the schedule of marijuana but it is certainly within his administration's power to do so. He does not need Congress to change this.

So Obama needs to use his executive power to make the change personally is what you're saying. Weren't all the conservatives up in arms over his use of executive orders? So now that he lets congress decide, you're up in arms over his inaction?

I'm no fan of Obama, but you fucks need to be consistent.

 

[Matt1970]

I understand that completely. OTOH, it's not like Congress lacks the power to act themselves, is it?

I also understand & believe that the current path to legalization is a winner, basically a sure thing. Nobody with a lick of sense will deviate from that path onto another recommended by those who seek to continue prohibition. Obama & Holder seem to know that too. Expect obfuscation & dithering at the federal level in support of successful action at the state level rather than the same thing in support of prohibition.

Or, cry me a river.

Do you understand that? Or are you going to continue with what you think Obama said.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'm no fan of Obama, but you fucks need to be consistent.

So does he.