Delusion and General Stupidity

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
That article is from about a year ago... When it was still a good idea to buy AMD.

March 29 2007 was like 9 months after C2D launched. Did it really take 9 months before C2D became performance and cost superior to X2?

I don't remember, I was mired in Kentsfield goodness at the time and never really paid attention to the market dynamics of the dual-core segment at the time.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
That article is from about a year ago... When it was still a good idea to buy AMD.

March 29 2007 was like 9 months after C2D launched. Did it really take 9 months before C2D became performance and cost superior to X2?

I don't remember, I was mired in Kentsfield goodness at the time and never really paid attention to the market dynamics of the dual-core segment at the time.

Back then it still made sense to buy AMD if you were looking for a cheap dual-core CPU; the E4300 was still well over $100 and the E2xxx series hadn't launched yet.

That's when I bought my X2 3600+ for $65 and this AM2 motherboard for $70. Now of course you can get an E2180 and IP35-E for the same price.

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
That article is from about a year ago... When it was still a good idea to buy AMD.

March 29 2007 was like 9 months after C2D launched. Did it really take 9 months before C2D became performance and cost superior to X2?

I don't remember, I was mired in Kentsfield goodness at the time and never really paid attention to the market dynamics of the dual-core segment at the time.

Back then it still made sense to buy AMD if you were looking for a cheap dual-core CPU; the E4300 was still well over $100 and the E2xxx series hadn't launched yet.

That's when I bought my X2 3600+ for $65 and this AM2 motherboard for $70. Now of course you can get an E2180 and IP35-E for the same price.

What he said.

 

[dmens]

funny to revive a dead thread, but just got banned from amdzone again after posting a few educational tidbits. Choice quotes:

- There is no such thing as "architectural speedpath"

- "Speedpath" was usually not actually known or not an issue until the first silicon came back.

- When the gate is off/open, gate leakage causes, well, leakage, from the reverse bias between source and gain

- A naive synthetic benchmark like what they used will underestimate Opteron's L1 bandwidth because, with sequential accesses and small strides

- You don't know what I'm talking about because apparently you've never implemented a dual-port set associated memory before, and you don't even know the different types/degrees of memory dual-port-ness. Ports interact with ways, and there is switching required in-between.

- what basically do you do that you seem to know so much about this? is it something that you have read/ or what?

epic lulz. well that was my fun for last night.

you can observe the inmates at the asylum:

http://amdzone.com/phpbb3/view...9aa225f8878d81227970a9
http://amdzone.com/phpbb3/view...9aa225f8878d81227970a9

 

[BlueAcolyte]

WHY did you necro this thread? We all know they're idiots.

 

[superstition]

Your old P4 generally ranked at 85-115W (not the oldest P4s, but the prescotts and later). Believe me, it was consuming more power and producing more heat then the Phenom does, hands down.

Aren't two of the latest Phenoms rated at 125W and blow out motherboards with 4 phase power?

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: superstition

Your old P4 generally ranked at 85-115W (not the oldest P4s, but the prescotts and later). Believe me, it was consuming more power and producing more heat then the Phenom does, hands down.

Aren't two of the latest Phenoms rated at 125W and blow out motherboards with 4 phase power?

Yes, but AMD isn't the only company to have that problem. The first Preshotts were Skt, 478, and took out nearly every Skt. 478 motherboard they were mounted on. If you overclocked, it happened sooner, but even if you didn't, it was happening at a fairly alarming rate. Like the 125W Phenoms, only the best motherboards could handle them.

 

[zsdersw]

We have a bunch of socket-478 Prescotts whose motherboards are perfectly fine.

 

[Peelback79]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
WHY did you necro this thread? We all know they're idiots.

Gave an old thread new life......and provided me an opportunity to waste another half hour of mine. Lolz though, lolz. When it comes to computers or cars I don't play favs. But I do know a little about fanatic-borderline-lunatic-wish-and-pray-and-hope-it-all-comes-true-if-I say-it-enough-IN-CAPS-support.....I'm a Cubs fan.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: myocardia


Yes, but AMD isn't the only company to have that problem. .

It sure seems that way when you read on here, during the time that the rival company has the fast moving market segment. It seems like so many people have tunnel vision.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: mooseracing

Originally posted by: myocardia


Yes, but AMD isn't the only company to have that problem. .

It sure seems that way when you read on here, during the time that the rival company has the fast moving market segment. It seems like so many people have tunnel vision.

Name me a single facet of life where this isn't true...computer hardware is nothing special.

(entire governments manage to avoid rebellion because of this attribute of human nature...)

 

[aigomorla]

Someone post this picture up there for me:

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...3/aigomorla/Wprime.jpg

And then say yes AMD has problems.

That should end it on there side about AMD > Intel. :T

EDIT: actually dont, dont revive that thread on there side please. Anyhow i posted above my reasons why AMD is in trouble.



and this was a necro'd thread btw. LOL.

Sorry Im not holding my breathe on the 9850BE's being anything special. Intel's code name is 10 number points higher but 1000x faster (sarcasm AMD fanboys please dont take it seriously) :X

Anyone with an AMD system your more then welcome to try a benchmark against me. :T

 

[superstition]

Yes, but AMD isn't the only company to have that problem. The first Preshotts were Skt, 478, and took out nearly every Skt. 478 motherboard they were mounted on. only the best motherboards could handle them.

Anyone with half a brain would have stayed away from Prescott. I'm talking about the present. I doubt Intel's designs are going the Prescott route again any time soon, but AMD's are.

And, people are twisting themselves into pretzels trying to give AMD kudos for things like power consumption.

 

[mooseracing]

Originally posted by: superstition
I doubt Intel's designs are going the Prescott route again any time soon, but AMD's are.

This is what I am saying about some peoples ideas on this board when the rival company has the lead.

Name one single company that hasn't brought a product to market that has failed and then repeated this. You can't predict the future and what the other company is producing. It's going to happen when you are in the technology market, some have better "padding" around them to absord and be able to bounce back, others not so much.

 

[superstition]

You can't predict the future and what the other company is producing.

Actually, people can and do predict the future. There is an entire financial market in futures. Short-term future predictions can be pretty accurate, although it becomes more difficult as you go toward long-term.

Right now, Intel has a strong advantage and, given the lesson it learned with NetBurst, I doubt the company will be going in that direction again for quite some time. AMD is in a desperate situation and is putting out 125 watt products because its technology is outdated and hemorrhaging watts is the only thing it can do other than slash margin to the point where there's no profit. It's frankly quite amazing that Intel got into the situation it did with NetBurst. I suppose arrogance is the reason. It's quite unlikely that AMD will be able to get them over a barrel again, and if Intel has any brains it will have learned its lesson. So, I don't see a bright future for AMD, at least in the short term. Perhaps the company will get some investment capital and come up with a cutting edge design? I certainly hope so. Competition is good for consumers.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: superstition
Actually, people can and do predict the future. There is an entire financial market in futures. Short-term future predictions can be pretty accurate, although it becomes more difficult as you go toward long-term.

The whole point of futures is to avoid having to predict (wait for it) future pricing. A futures contract is an insurance policy -- it guarantees company A will get X amount of product Y at price Z on time D. Or guarantees that company B will be able to sell good Y at prize Z at time D. This eliminates any guesswork in buying and selling goods used in a lengthy manufacturing process. Both producers and consumers hedge out the risk of price changes precisely because they don't want to be in the business of reading tea leaves.

Now, speculators trading cash-settled futures -- that's a whole different frothy ballgame. They *try* to predict the future with varying degrees of success.

IMO it's easier to do the 'predictions' with longer timeframes than short ones -- with short timeframes you have to be right not only on direction but also timing. With delivery dates further out your options in adjusting your position (pun intended) are far more open. For example, let's say I want to create a position betting on higher inflation. If I make this bet to the tune of 'more inflation next month' and pricing remains relatively flat next month and then skyrockets the month after, I lose. If I expect more inflation next month but make the bet for a year out, I win.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Someone post this picture up there for me:

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...3/aigomorla/Wprime.jpg

And then say yes AMD has problems.

That should end it on there side about AMD > Intel. :T

EDIT: actually dont, dont revive that thread on there side please. Anyhow i posted above my reasons why AMD is in trouble.



and this was a necro'd thread btw. LOL.

Sorry Im not holding my breathe on the 9850BE's being anything special. Intel's code name is 10 number points higher but 1000x faster (sarcasm AMD fanboys please dont take it seriously) :X

Anyone with an AMD system your more then welcome to try a benchmark against me. :T

I don't know what any good CPU bench programs are... any suggestions? I'd be happy to post my numbers. I don't think that there is any shame in my $235 quad core being slower then a $1000+ quad core. But, I did just build this system yesterday, I plan on starting the overclocking tonight... we'll see how far it goes. From what I've read, the 9850 seems to be a pretty decent overclocker so far. Not C2D good, but not like the Phenom 9x00's either where you were happy if you got +200mhz stable.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I don't think that there is any shame in my $235 quad core being slower then a $1000+ quad core.

Therein lies some epic truthiness. $ vs $ you just can't compare Phenom's to anything but teh uber cheap Q6600 (which is why Intel priced them as such, to bound the upper-end of AMD's potential Phenom ASPs).

Intel's got some smart cookies running the sales/marketing group. But AMD will win the price/performance of a Phenom versus anything that isn't Q6600 ATM.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I don't think that there is any shame in my $235 quad core being slower then a $1000+ quad core.

Therein lies some epic truthiness. $ vs $ you just can't compare Phenom's to anything but teh uber cheap Q6600 (which is why Intel priced them as such, to bound the upper-end of AMD's potential Phenom ASPs).

Intel's got some smart cookies running the sales/marketing group. But AMD will win the price/performance of a Phenom versus anything that isn't Q6600 ATM.

take your pick then:

G0:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al.../aigomorla/Temps-2.jpg

B3:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...73/aigomorla/Q6600.jpg

another B3:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...73/aigomorla/CM690.jpg

Wanna try a Xeon B3?:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...73/aigomorla/X3220.jpg

Oh i should be getting my dual Sossoman system up next weekend. Thats a Quadcore also, but its 2 dualcore lappy processors on 1 board. :T

LOL i hav a G0 ES i can throw at as well. :T

Results still be the same if you factor ocing. As i said the only area which amd dominates in would be a IGP solution for a small HTPC box or something.

For the desktop market, ive had a phenom rig and was greatly disapointed in it. The only hope in a phenom rig for me now is to see if i can get the highest overclock since very few people can hold it stable overclocked.


im a speedaholic. I like fast cars, fast computers, i dont like a computer going BSOD fast tho. Which the Phenom and this craptasic 780i does when overclocked.

 

[HOOfan 1]

Originally posted by: taltamir

I guess it really comes down to what applications you run on your machine. For the things I do on my PC, Phenom at 2.2GHz is >= Q6600, which was my only other option at the time I bought it ($535 was well above my budget yet I needed a Quad Core).

HAHAHA, I can't stop laughing!

I am pretty sure Q6600 had dropped to $266 by the time Phenom came out...

 

[v8envy]

So how's the E2200 holding up? Did it melt into a screaming pile of slag yet or did you manage to squeeze 3.4+ ghz out of it? The anandtech forum member OC to beat is 3.6 ghz, I know you can do it!

I'd love to see an informal benchmark bake-off between a 3.6ghz core2 dualie vs. a Phenom quad.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: HOOfan 1

Originally posted by: taltamir

I guess it really comes down to what applications you run on your machine. For the things I do on my PC, Phenom at 2.2GHz is >= Q6600, which was my only other option at the time I bought it ($535 was well above my budget yet I needed a Quad Core).

HAHAHA, I can't stop laughing!

I am pretty sure Q6600 had dropped to $266 by the time Phenom came out...

Price history for Q6600 for approx 10-15 resellers:
http://www.nextag.com/Intel-Co...40518-D03A92470EEB44C5

Earliest release date for a Phenom of any kind was November 19, 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...Phenom_microprocessors

Q6600 on November 19, 2007 was $266 for 1000 units.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: mooseracing
It sure seems that way when you read on here, during the time that the rival company has the fast moving market segment. It seems like so many people have tunnel vision.

What exactly are you implying with that statement? I hope it's not that you think I think Phenoms are better than Intel's quads., because that would make you look pretty bad, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by: superstition
Anyone with half a brain would have stayed away from Prescott.

Yeah, but those of us with complete brains just laughed and pointed, like the majority of us have done with Phenom. Personally, I'm just glad that AMD was able to get the B3 steppings out. Now the Phenoms are finally up to Preshott status. You know, slower at nearly everything, while producing more heat

Originally posted by: superstition
It's frankly quite amazing that Intel got into the situation it did with NetBurst. I suppose arrogance is the reason.

You're right, it was arrogance. Of course, the same applies to AMD, in this instance. I think it was mostly Hector Ruin's fault, but who knows?

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: dmens
- There is no such thing as "architectural speedpath"

What do you mean by that?

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: dmens
- There is no such thing as "architectural speedpath"

What do you mean by that?

I didn't say it.