Delphi offers $50K bonus for wage cuts **EDIT** REJECTED BY UAW........

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
I think the next step will be Delphi going to court and getting its labor contracts nullified.

I hear GM has been stockpiling a lot of parts over the last few months to prepare for a possible strike at Delphi.

The Judge can take as long as 45 days to decide to nullify the contracts.



To those of you that think all the jobs in a parts plant are easy and they could just hire new workers. American Axle UAW had a three day strike during last contract negotiation. Every engineer and supervisor there, some with 40+ years, tried to make an axle while they were out. I didn't happen. To get our operation back up and running would take a year.

That's right, they usually don't even think about turning over an upsetter to an employee by himself until he has a year's experience. First they would have to figure out how to do it, then they'd have to train a workforce.

In a year GM and Delphi would only be a memory.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: sandorski
The Workers build what Management decides to build. Consumers don't want what GM is building, regardless of Quality. You do the Math.

You can't be serious. You think the only reasons GM and domestics lose their market shares in the last 10 years have NOTHING to do with quality/reliability? Oh brother, dream on.

Quality/Reliability has nothing to do with the worker. Engineering, Production Processes, and other factors implemented/directed by Management are what makes the difference. GMs problems are not caused by the Workers period, it is Mismanagement.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: bctbct
I have a crysler that we bought new. Just turning 100k have replaced a few things under warranty (rear window motor, exterior trim pc.)

I have installed a speed input sensor ($30) and a fan motor switch ($60). Also did a thermostat ($20)

I change the oil (5K) and transmission fluid (50K)

Thats it.

I have a C1500 Chevy I bought 1year old. About 150K on it now.

Put on a new exhaust system( $240 dealer). New radiator ($125) washer fluid pump ($20)
Fan belt ($20) Battery twice ($120) Maybe a couple of other mainor things I do not recall. I changed the oil (5K) and transmission fluid (50K)


The chrysler has never broke down except for limp mode on transmission from speed switch, chevy was towed once after changing the antifreeze and I did not get a strong enough mix and nearly froze the motor.

Gm hood paint peeling began when Chevy was 11 years old.
I have been blessed with these vehicles, and while they may or may not be oddities, that is my experience with 2 vehicles produced by American manufacturers ( yes I know chrysler has german roots)

Placed in this situation anyone making $28 an hour and told they would be cut to $16 would raise hell. Doesnt really matters how or why they got there, only what they do with the situation today.


Edit

The honda 80K timing belt costs more than I have spent on the chrysler. Although it increases resale if it has been done prior to said sale

Let see, I had a Prelude <bought new> that nothing broke beside the standard fluid changes/maint. Nothing broke during warranty period and nothing after. It had over 120K miles and it still running just fine after 15 years. No paint feel off either.

I am driving a CRV now for a few years and so far, nothing broke during the warranty and nothing is broke after that. I just check the exterior and the paint is just fine

From our examples, I see that I have better quality vehiles than yours. And millions of your American fellows agree with me.

Now you tell me, why would I bother to give GM and domestics my business while I can get a better vehicle in the long run? Sorry but it is my money, it is my duty to get the **best bang for my buck***. I won't buy something just to save someone job. You wouldn't go exclusively to BestBuy/CircuitCity if they are failing, right? So far, domestics still not there yet.

For your statement about the $28/hour pay, it is still too high for the skills/knowlege. I know, I worked with GM production guys/gals for ten years. It is not rocket science. Yes, it is boring and tedious but anyone with a brain can be train to do so. These folks should learn to save for rainning days instead of buy buy buy more stuffs.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Svnla
.............From our examples, I see that I have better quality vehiles than yours. And millions of your American fellows agree with me...........

.........For your statement about the $28/hour pay, it is still too high for the skills/knowlege. I know, I worked with GM production guys/gals for ten years. It is not rocket science. Yes, it is boring and tedious but anyone with a brain can be train to do so. These folks should learn to save for rainning days instead of buy buy buy more stuffs.

Both of your examples are anecdotal. Generally Toyotas and Hondas have out performed domestics in the last ten years. The margin of difference has not always been by very much and is closing.

BTW-what type of manufacturing was being done at the facility you worked at?

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Svnla
One more thing, GM would pay for UAW members 100% for college. Yes, 100%, everything <book, tuitition, the whole thing>. That's how I paid for my MBA.

I think there were less than 10 people that took that offer in the 10 years I worked at the GM plant <almost 3000 employees>.

:thumbsup: There's that "union work ethic" in play.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Svnla
One more thing, GM would pay for UAW members 100% for college. Yes, 100%, everything <book, tuitition, the whole thing>. That's how I paid for my MBA.

I think there were less than 10 people that took that offer in the 10 years I worked at the GM plant <almost 3000 employees>.

:thumbsup: There's that "union work ethic" in play.

I got a bachelors degree paid for by GM. I am also a skilled tradesman c/o a GM apprenticeship. I am also a union member and have worked just as hard as I did in the non-union jobs I've done.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Svnla
One more thing, GM would pay for UAW members 100% for college. Yes, 100%, everything <book, tuitition, the whole thing>. That's how I paid for my MBA.

I think there were less than 10 people that took that offer in the 10 years I worked at the GM plant <almost 3000 employees>.

:thumbsup: There's that "union work ethic" in play.

😕

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Squisher
I got a bachelors degree paid for by GM. I am also a skilled tradesman c/o a GM apprenticeship.

Clearly you're not a researcher or scientist of any sort because if you were, you'd know that one example proves nothing about the majority.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Svnla
.............From our examples, I see that I have better quality vehiles than yours. And millions of your American fellows agree with me...........

.........For your statement about the $28/hour pay, it is still too high for the skills/knowlege. I know, I worked with GM production guys/gals for ten years. It is not rocket science. Yes, it is boring and tedious but anyone with a brain can be train to do so. These folks should learn to save for rainning days instead of buy buy buy more stuffs.

Both of your examples are anecdotal. Generally Toyotas and Hondas have out performed domestics in the last ten years. The margin of difference has not always been by very much and is closing.

BTW-what type of manufacturing was being done at the facility you worked at?

I just give my personal experience with imports. One of the guy I worked with bought a GrandAm and guess what? His car needed a brand new transmission after he only got it for a month. Yes, he got it fixed under warranty but he lost time and he was not a happy camper at all.

We all know domestics are getting better than they used to be. They have to because there are no other choice. But are they as good or better than imports, we all know the answer to that one.

Our plant was using JIT system. They were changing to "cell manufacturing" and "flexible team" processes when I left.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Squisher
I got a bachelors degree paid for by GM. I am also a skilled tradesman c/o a GM apprenticeship.

Clearly you're not a researcher or scientist of any sort because if you were, you'd know that one example proves nothing about the majority.

Are you trying to say that the majority of non-union workers would have degrees if their employers paid for it?

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: Squisher

Originally posted by: Svnla
.............From our examples, I see that I have better quality vehiles than yours. And millions of your American fellows agree with me...........

.........For your statement about the $28/hour pay, it is still too high for the skills/knowlege. I know, I worked with GM production guys/gals for ten years. It is not rocket science. Yes, it is boring and tedious but anyone with a brain can be train to do so. These folks should learn to save for rainning days instead of buy buy buy more stuffs.

Both of your examples are anecdotal. Generally Toyotas and Hondas have out performed domestics in the last ten years. The margin of difference has not always been by very much and is closing.

BTW-what type of manufacturing was being done at the facility you worked at?

I just give my personal experience with imports. One of the guy I worked with bought a GrandAm and guess what? His car needed a brand new transmission after he only got it for a month. Yes, he got it fixed under warranty but he lost time and he was not a happy camper at all.

We all know domestics are getting better than they used to be. They have to because there are no other choice. But are they as good or better than imports, we all know the answer to that one.

Our plant was using JIT system. They were changing to "cell manufacturing" and "flexible team" processes when I left.

The reason I asked is different types of manufacturing require different types of jobs skills. A stamping plant press worker probably could be trained well enough within a week to be left on their own. The machinery is so robust that there really isn't much for the operator to do. However, where the manufacturing is much more taxing on the system you'll find that you are constantly making adjustments to compensate for things that pop up. Sometimes these work arounds seem infinite. An operator of this kind of machine can easily take a year to train.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: SampSon

******Out of all of you naysayers I'd really like to know how many of you have worked in such an environment, stepped foot in such an environment or have any idea of what you're talking about. Most of you are sitting atop your ivory towers of service related industry jobs and looking down on these workers as if they mean nothing and are completely expendable.

******No matter how educated you are you are replaceable, and that direction the replacement is going is to OTHER NATIONS.

Been there, done that on the production line. See my previous posts in this thread.

I agree with you there. That's why you have to continue update your skills/knowledge and make yourself "VALUEABLE" and save money for the rainning days. It is up to you to survive in the increasing competitive market.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Squisher
Are you trying to say that the majority of non-union workers would have degrees if their employers paid for it?

What do non-union blue collar workers have to do with anything?

Actually the union workers are usually smarter than the non workers, they know how to take advantage of the system (join the union, demand higher wages).

But they're still idiots.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Squisher
The reason I asked is different types of manufacturing require different types of jobs skills. A stamping plant press worker probably could be trained well enough within a week to be left on their own. The machinery is so robust that there really isn't much for the operator to do. However, where the manufacturing is much more taxing on the system you'll find that you are constantly making adjustments to compensate for things that pop up. Sometimes these work arounds seem infinite. An operator of this kind of machine can easily take a year to train.

Here is my take <from my own experience at my plant>.

Pain shop/stamping/body molding: mostly, if not all, are being done by robots/machines now.

Final assembly line: I done most of the jobs <exterior, interior, brake, tire, ect.> there, it wasn't difficult. Yes, it is boring and tedious but not hard on the brain.

Materials/supplies/logistic: forklift driving, been there , done that. Not difficult.

I guess because my plant is new <less than 20 years old> rather than the old legacy plants <100 years old> in Michigan or so, most of the hard stuffs were done by machines/robots.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
But they're still idiots.

What makes them idiots?

 

[Fenixgoon]

$28 is a lot.. it's more than my brother (aerspace engineer) makes right now, and more than either of my brothers started at... comes 28x40hr week x 52 weeks = $58k/ year. that's a solid income

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Squisher
What makes them idiots?

Being offered advanced education and turning it down to spend their lives working in a factory like a 3rd world slave.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Squisher
What makes them idiots?

Being offered advanced education and turning it down to spend their lives working in a factory like a 3rd world slave.

I thought I heard you say in another thread you hads to go mow your grass?

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Svnla

Originally posted by: bctbct
I have a crysler that we bought new. Just turning 100k have replaced a few things under warranty (rear window motor, exterior trim pc.)

I have installed a speed input sensor ($30) and a fan motor switch ($60). Also did a thermostat ($20)

I change the oil (5K) and transmission fluid (50K)

Thats it.

I have a C1500 Chevy I bought 1year old. About 150K on it now.

Put on a new exhaust system( $240 dealer). New radiator ($125) washer fluid pump ($20)
Fan belt ($20) Battery twice ($120) Maybe a couple of other mainor things I do not recall. I changed the oil (5K) and transmission fluid (50K)


The chrysler has never broke down except for limp mode on transmission from speed switch, chevy was towed once after changing the antifreeze and I did not get a strong enough mix and nearly froze the motor.

Gm hood paint peeling began when Chevy was 11 years old.
I have been blessed with these vehicles, and while they may or may not be oddities, that is my experience with 2 vehicles produced by American manufacturers ( yes I know chrysler has german roots)

Placed in this situation anyone making $28 an hour and told they would be cut to $16 would raise hell. Doesnt really matters how or why they got there, only what they do with the situation today.


Edit

The honda 80K timing belt costs more than I have spent on the chrysler. Although it increases resale if it has been done prior to said sale

Let see, I had a Prelude <bought new> that nothing broke beside the standard fluid changes/maint. Nothing broke during warranty period and nothing after. It had over 120K miles and it still running just fine after 15 years. No paint feel off either.

I am driving a CRV now for a few years and so far, nothing broke during the warranty and nothing is broke after that. I just check the exterior and the paint is just fine

From our examples, I see that I have better quality vehiles than yours. And millions of your American fellows agree with me.

Now you tell me, why would I bother to give GM and domestics my business while I can get a better vehicle in the long run? Sorry but it is my money, it is my duty to get the **best bang for my buck***. I won't buy something just to save someone job. You wouldn't go exclusively to BestBuy/CircuitCity if they are failing, right? So far, domestics still not there yet.

For your statement about the $28/hour pay, it is still too high for the skills/knowlege. I know, I worked with GM production guys/gals for ten years. It is not rocket science. Yes, it is boring and tedious but anyone with a brain can be train to do so. These folks should learn to save for rainning days instead of buy buy buy more stuffs.

You have had a car for 15 years and it has never been repaired? That almost sounds to good to be true.....

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: bctbct
You have had a car for 15 years and it has never been repaired? That almost sounds to good to be true.....

Nothing but regular maint stuffs <oil/fluid>, and normal wear and tear such as brakepads, tires, shocks and the likes. My sister is driving it now and it is still running.

 

[SampSon]

Why do you people bother "arguing" with JLGatsby?
You all know he's a big badass businessman who has you all outclassed.

He's going to be pissed when all the illegal immigrants get amnesty and he has to pay his cook minimum wage to make him microwaveable burritos.

 

[overclock]

Unions, you're only as good as your weakest employee.

So they strike, refuse to take lower wages and lose their jobs to China/Mexico/Canada/fill in country here in a couple of years. Then who will they hate?

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: overclock
So they strike, refuse to take lower wages and lose their jobs to China/Mexico/Canada/fill in country here in a couple of years. Then who will they hate?

George W Bush....cause it's all his fault in some way.

 

[hans007]

whats funny is i had a friend who i think eventually got a masters in mechanical engineering. he had an internship at gm when we were undergrads and from what i heard it was that GM was th emost horribly run company ever and it made engineering suck there.

i suppose depending on how horribly run your company is it can make someone not love what they love.

i had a coworker at the software company i'm at, he got his masters in CS and then quit the company to go to law school saying he never wanted to do computer science again after working at this rather large software company.

 

[Googer]

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