Dell Zino HD 400 - CPU Support Beyond X2 6850e

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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This thread is just an FYI for future google searches, for anyone that comes across or has an old Dell Zino HD 400.

The Zino HD 400 is a proprietary mini ITX box from Dell that uses the standard laptop-style common Dell power supplies. I've currently got it running off a 4.62A model, and the PSU brick is cool to the touch after a couple of days of running.

Officially, the fastest CPU supported is the Athlon Neo X2 6850e, which is a 1.8Ghz Dual-Core CPU. The Zino I ran across was donated with no HDD or Ram, but had a 1.6Ghz X2 in it, and after putting 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 SO-DIMM and a spare 750GB 3.5" SATA Drive in, a fresh install of W10 was still fairly sluggish. I have a huge number of old used CPUs laying around, dozens of AM2/AM3/S775 especially, and did an online search to see if anyone had a good idea on upgrades here. That's when I ran into the news of the 6850e being tops, and that seemed nearly pointless (1.6 to 1.8Ghz). To be fair, 1.6 to 2.1Ghz isn't hugely better, but I did want to spread the news here. The fastest model I had on hand that ended up working was the X2 4050e, which is 2.1Ghz, Dual Core, 512k Cache per core. After cleaning the HSF and applhying new IC Diamond compound, it's running smoother in a way that can be felt, and temps are stable in the 68-72C range. Higher than I'd ideally like to see, but not unusual for such a tiny HSF and ITX design like this.

This is just a system I've refurbed to go back to a resale shop to raise money for a food bank, so it's not a huge priority to squeeze every ounce of potential out of it. I've contributed a HDD, Ram, and this CPU. There is the possibility that even faster CPUs may work. 45nm seems like it would be promising, but this 2.1Ghz @ 65nm is probably the fastest of the Brisbanes that would work. This is on the A01 bios. As it already works, I'm not going to update it and risk any issues as there are none as yet.

Windows 10 1809 64-Bit installed immediately, took the stock W7 license and activated perfectly, and the HD3200 drivers loaded from Windows update.

As for usage, it's about what you'd expect from such hardware. I'm posting from the very unit in question, general web performance is adequate. PDF, Word, Excel, all seem fine. Youtube works 99.9% fine at 720p (you can override the settings for this), but at 1080p it drops frames, probably due to the onboard HD3200 IGP. Again, a possibility that I could find faster drivers and/or overclock the IGP slightly with a utility, but that's beyond the scope of what this is meant for, which will be to pair it with a KB/Mouse/Speakers/~20" LCD and price it around $49 as a package. Every penny raised goes towards a community food bank and shelter, and I donate my time for these little projects. Because so many PCs are donated either incomplete (missing HDD often), or the user didn't understand security (donated with old financial/personal data left on the drive), and almost always outdated (W7, W8, or just overall out of date on updates/browser/etc) software, I simply do DBAN on any drives, and do a fresh install for clean results, with little upgrades to make sure the systems are acceptable basic home use PCs at minimum.

Anyway, I doubt this is of direct interest to any AT regulars, but due to not finding very good info on a google search about this little guy, definitely wanted to get some more comprehensive info out there :)

CPU.pngMobo.png
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,400
5,635
136
Thanks for the PSA! I'm sure this will prove useful to someone out there. And good on you for donating your time to a good cause.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,521
12,388
136
Hopefully your search will be indexed by <insertnameofsearchenginehere> for future people to find.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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Hopefully your search will be indexed by <insertnameofsearchenginehere> for future people to find.

Haha I believe it will be :) At least I hope so. It's always frustrating to have a subject like this where the only info available is either extremely thin or simply incorrect.

Hilariously, I've googled things before that I was trying to recall, only to be linked to old threads on AT where I was discussing them with others here. It is totally matrixy feeling, especially with my memory issues.
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
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Hmm, come to think of it, perhaps it would have also been useful to toss a popular Linux distro on it for testing, to make sure all the hardware was picked up and it ran well, for those that might be interested in such results. I'll bear that in mind for future things like this. I think I'll start a result post for any lesser known old systems/configs with both current W10 installs as well as a test Linux install.

Any recommendations for a basic easy to use Linux distro for this purpose? I usually use Ubuntu, but I'm not super well versed in that area, so I'm open to other suggestions as long as they're very easy to install and use as Ubuntu is (but perhaps more suited to older dual/quad core era boxes with 4-8GB ram).
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,521
12,388
136
Any recommendations for a basic easy to use Linux distro for this purpose? I usually use Ubuntu, but I'm not super well versed in that area, so I'm open to other suggestions as long as they're very easy to install and use as Ubuntu is (but perhaps more suited to older dual/quad core era boxes with 4-8GB ram).

Try Xubuntu or Lubuntu. Lots of people like XFCE these days, so Xubuntu may work really well. Lubuntu is really bare-bones. I liked it for my mining rigs though.
 

Digita1Zombie

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2008
8
0
66
I upgraded to an AMD Athlon II X3 400e in mine and its running well all 3 cores showing load... guessing a similar series quad core would work also...
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,960
1,678
136
I wonder if you could get MythTV to run on it? Might be a nifty little HTPC/DVR. It's basically Linux, set up for HTPC duty.
 

Digita1Zombie

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2008
8
0
66
not sure on myth, I was debating running linux but for now I have it in a guest room so it doesn't get much use, I had tested a radeon 5730 in it, it would boot but on loading a game it would shut down, guessing just to much power draw. I have an ssd in it and its plenty fast for most common uses, I did have to down grade the video driver for the 4330 to get it to display properly in win 10.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
not sure on myth, I was debating running linux but for now I have it in a guest room so it doesn't get much use, I had tested a radeon 5730 in it, it would boot but on loading a game it would shut down, guessing just to much power draw. I have an ssd in it and its plenty fast for most common uses, I did have to down grade the video driver for the 4330 to get it to display properly in win 10.

You mention 4330 video, is this a 410 model? The old 400 I had used HD3200, and it was pretty marginal for YouTube/etc, having to lock at 720p to play at 30fps regardless of browser. MPC would play 1080p okay enough though, just more efficient I guess.
 

Digita1Zombie

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2008
8
0
66
The sticker on the bottom is pulled off from the re seller, so im not 100% sure the model, I thought the 3200 was the onboard graphics and mine had a 4330 in the mxm 3 slot on the bottom, that is how I was able to swap in the 5730 and test, as mentioned the 5730 sadly would should down, and I did upgrade to a 120 watt power adapter, guessing vregs were not designed for it. Perf on the 4330 is significantly higher then 3200 on notebook check, so not a bad upgrade. Though when buying a card for this machine you need to get one from dell or alienware, I tried an HP but it didnt work as it didnt have "v bios" chip on it, not sure what this chip does but saw other users online with same issue of HP mxm cards not working due to it...
 

SnooSnoo

Member
Jun 14, 2011
41
17
81
My very first HTPC had a 4050e in it on a 780G ECS mobo that had onboard 3200. I can recall that the 3200 ran 1080 youtube just fine under windows 7 with an Athlon X2 250. A coleague had a lesser mobo with the Radeon 3000 in it, and that one couldnt decode HD video. Had to use the CPU instead.

But that's all in the past so I may be remembering it wrong.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
Hmm, perhaps not, maybe the full size board was better somehow with shared memory bandwidth. I tried both the stock YouTube in browsers as well as the plugins to force flash or HTML5, but the thing just couldn't do it. Medium size MKVs in 1080p didn't work with VLC, but played back acceptably with Media Player Classic, I guess it is just a more efficient way of playback there.

Come to think of it, I think I have also usually had better experiences with onboard 3200HD with mATX/ATX boards in general.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,065
418
126
760G had UVD disabled, 780G had it enabled, I never played with this sort of hardware, but going by my HD4670 experience with UVD, it not always works with modern browsers,

at the moment I have it on windows 10 x64 with the win update drivers and it's working kind of OK, Firefox with h264ify works fine the acceleration for youtube, it does 1080P30 and 720P60 OK (1080P60 the old UVD, prior to GCN I think can't handle), but on Chrome it doesn't work, on Edge (no chromium) it also works with this driver, when I installed 13.1 manually it continued to work on firefox but stopped working on Edge...
VLC, MPCHC it all works fine.

but the HD4670 uses the same UVD version (2) as the 785G, the 780G is an older version (UVD+), but I would think it should work still....
 

Digita1Zombie

Junior Member
Oct 31, 2008
8
0
66
I believe HD 5000 series and up are certified for win 10, so anything older is going to be hit or miss... do all zinios have an mxm 3 slot? would be nice if we had a mid range option for upgrade that was supported...but I have not found anything thats common yet..
 

dougulus

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2020
8
1
36
i got a AMD Athlon II X3-400E (tri-core) installed, and no longer i have to dealt with browser freeze up and everything goes fast (this pc only got 4gb RAM)
this cpu is pretty cheap. got it on ebay for $7.99 with shipping
fyi. this is probably the cheapest option to upgrade zino hd 400 since buying 8gb memory upgrade kit cost at least $80.
 

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dougulus

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2020
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I believe HD 5000 series and up are certified for win 10, so anything older is going to be hit or miss... do all zinios have an mxm 3 slot? would be nice if we had a mid range option for upgrade that was supported...but I have not found anything thats common yet..

nope. there is only sata. i already had a ssd installed in this one, but i wonder if anyone wants to try to use Sabrent M.2 SSD to 2.5-Inch SATA III Aluminum Enclosure Adapter. i doubt there will be a major speed differences..since it is still connect to a sata
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
nope. there is only sata. i already had a ssd installed in this one, but i wonder if anyone wants to try to use Sabrent M.2 SSD to 2.5-Inch SATA III Aluminum Enclosure Adapter. i doubt there will be a major speed differences..since it is still connect to a sata

This is true, and in most you'd probably see a performance decrease if anything. SATA 2.5" SDDs usually (not always) have decent onboard processors that handle the data callup and transfer, offloading what can be fairly CPU intensive otherwise. Controllerless SSDs have much higher CPU utilization in use. nVME SSD lack the PCB space for the higher end controllers, and the direct PCIe interface reduces the complexity of the data interface considerably.

But putting an nVME into an adapter to SATA means you are at the mercy of whatever IC they use in the adapter to manage the data interface, and given the pressure to meet a low price, will almost certainly be slower than any native SATA SSD design with a good controller like the Evos, Pros, Intel etc. Better controllers give better IOPs and better performance curve over higher utilization.
 
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dougulus

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2020
8
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I upgraded to an AMD Athlon II X3 400e in mine and its running well all 3 cores showing load... guessing a similar series quad core would work also...
since we have the same cpu
got a question for you on the cpu, do you have problem startup the machine if you have it shutdown for a while? i have black screen doing initial start up, but if i tried to do start up (w/ force stop via power button), i'll be able to start it after 1 or 2 tries. once it is up, everything is fine
 

dougulus

Junior Member
Aug 21, 2020
8
1
36
This is true, and in most you'd probably see a performance decrease if anything. SATA 2.5" SDDs usually (not always) have decent onboard processors that handle the data callup and transfer, offloading what can be fairly CPU intensive otherwise. Controllerless SSDs have much higher CPU utilization in use. nVME SSD lack the PCB space for the higher end controllers, and the direct PCIe interface reduces the complexity of the data interface considerably.

But putting an nVME into an adapter to SATA means you are at the mercy of whatever IC they use in the adapter to manage the data interface, and given the pressure to meet a low price, will almost certainly be slower than any native SATA SSD design with a good controller like the Evos, Pros, Intel etc. Better controllers give better IOPs and better performance curve over higher utilization.
thank you for start up this thread. it is a lot of help for people who still use this tiny machine.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,202
126
since we have the same cpu
got a question for you on the cpu, do you have problem startup the machine if you have it shutdown for a while? i have black screen doing initial start up, but if i tried to do start up (w/ force stop via power button), i'll be able to start it after 1 or 2 tries. once it is up, everything is fine
Honestly, sounds like your power supply (PSU) may be going bad.
 
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Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
931
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I've never noticed Windows 10 being any slower than Windows 7 was on old hardware. I've used Geforce 6, 8800GT, HD 4870, and various HD 5000/6000 series cards with 1909. IME, AMD's DX10 and HD 5000/6000 series are best of just using the driver via WU instead of installing the older Catalyst packages.

The only thing I yet haven't found anything conclusive for is whether Windows 10 still supports AGP cards. I've seen claims that it doesn't but not a good source confirming it, the topics have been for the Win10 builds that were problematic for the Legacy GPUs in general and had to be put on hold until Microsoft fixed it.