Dell says customers just not asking for AMD chips...

[Hanpan]

Dell does not see 25 people who chose to write the inquirer as it's customer base. They consdiser the universties that need 10K systems or the businesses that buy 500pc's every 3 years. These are the people who do not want/need AMD and who will be heeded. AMD works very well and in no way does this say amd is inferior, simply the largest customers do not want amd at this time. As others have pointed out, those who do know what AMD is and what the benefits and drawbacks are over intel are probably those who only buy dell when dell offers significant discounts. Not exactly the customer base they are probably focusing most on.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: Megatomic
Doesn't Dell use their own proprietary motherboards? If I'm right, then they would just develop their own Proprietary AMD motherboard utilizing the chipset that offers them the best value.

AFAIK they use Intel boards.

If they're manufactured by Intel they are special order models as I have never seen a "Dell" motherboard in any other system or for sale separately.

I'm sure ASUS or MSI would love to collaborate with Dell to make an A64 mobo for Dell to use. 🙂

 

[element]

That's like Ford saying their customers don't ask for Ferraris so they don't sell them at their dealerships. Dell doesn't sell AMD chips, so why would anyone bother asking for something they know Dell doesn't have?

 

[IPLaw]

Actually, Dell did sell AMD Opterons:

Link with screen shot

 

[Megatomic]

I remember that. Fun day. 😀

 

[IPLaw]

Yes, it was an excellent day. It's amazing how fast the spinsters forget.

 

[Dug]

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: MDE

Originally posted by: Megatomic
Doesn't Dell use their own proprietary motherboards? If I'm right, then they would just develop their own Proprietary AMD motherboard utilizing the chipset that offers them the best value.

AFAIK they use Intel boards.

If they're manufactured by Intel they are special order models as I have never seen a "Dell" motherboard in any other system or for sale separately.

I'm sure ASUS or MSI would love to collaborate with Dell to make an A64 mobo for Dell to use. 🙂

The manufacturer of the motherboard is not the problem, its what chipset to use. I think they would want a chipset from AMD that's proven not to have problems. Not VIA or Nvidia.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

At compusa I always get customers wanting intel. Even though I make commision, I still show them that they can pay less and get the exact same thing. What I hate the most is that some of my coworkers are just as bad as the customers. This one guy says a a64 3400 compares to a p4 2.8. This is the same guy that bought an alienware with a p4 2.8 and 9600xt for 2 grand, while he was in debt. I have heard some coworkers compare the damn celeron to the amd xp....just sickening.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Dug
The manufacturer of the motherboard is not the problem, its what chipset to use. I think they would want a chipset from AMD that's proven not to have problems. Not VIA or Nvidia.

1. Why would the chipset maker have to be AMD?

2. Since when has the Nvidia NF line of chipsets been known to have problems?

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Dug
The manufacturer of the motherboard is not the problem, its what chipset to use. I think they would want a chipset from AMD that's proven not to have problems. Not VIA or Nvidia.

1. Why would the chipset maker have to be AMD?

2. Since when has the Nvidia NF line of chipsets been known to have problems?

I think people that have problems with the chipset are all user related. I have been with via and nforce and not one problem.

 

[zodder]

Originally posted by: boredtodeath
This is probably because Dell wants to recieve less Technical support calls. Intel is more stable than amd. If they had people running AMD chips, there systems would lock up and they would blame it on dell, thus hurting their name.

There is some truth to what he said. Pairing an Intel cpu with an Intel chipset is probably the most stable setup you can ask for. AMD relies on nVidia, SiS and others for their chipsets. Regardless, I buy AMD for everything except laptops.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Dug
The manufacturer of the motherboard is not the problem, its what chipset to use. I think they would want a chipset from AMD that's proven not to have problems. Not VIA or Nvidia.

1. Why would the chipset maker have to be AMD?

2. Since when has the Nvidia NF line of chipsets been known to have problems?

First as you know, I own 10 amd system, and 3 of them are nforce.

Don;t you remember the nforce driver problem, and you had to uninstall the drivers to get your ide to work. However, I think they make a fine chipset and I would buy an nforce4 if it was competitive in price.

 

[boomerang]

This claim by Dell is probably a legitimate one. The majority of people want an Intel system because Intel's advertising sticks in their mind. I would guess that the majority of these folks do not even know that AMD exists.

Like many here, I build systems for friends and family. I used to ask them what they wanted. They all would say I have to have a Pentium. Now, I've learned to ask them what they intend to use the computer for and come up with a price based on that. They're all getting AMD systems now and of course know no different.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Megatomic

Originally posted by: Dug
The manufacturer of the motherboard is not the problem, its what chipset to use. I think they would want a chipset from AMD that's proven not to have problems. Not VIA or Nvidia.

1. Why would the chipset maker have to be AMD?

2. Since when has the Nvidia NF line of chipsets been known to have problems?

First as you know, I own 10 amd system, and 3 of them are nforce.

Don;t you remember the nforce driver problem, and you had to uninstall the drivers to get your ide to work. However, I think they make a fine chipset and I would buy an nforce4 if it was competitive in price.

The driver issues have been corrected. In this case, the SW-IDE drivers are very stable and much faster. Version 2.5 was the big turn around there. If you haven't, I recommend you pick a system to test them on and give them a go. 🙂

 

[Markfw]

Oh, I did that right after it happened, but I just had to comment that AT ONE TIME THEY HAD KNOWN PROBLEMS. I already said everything is fine and I would buy them. The point is nobody is perfect......

 

[Methias]

Yeah, customers at large probably wouldn't ask for any specific kind of chip. Most of them just want a computer that will do what they tell it to do.

 

[Frew]

The average user thinks a Pentium 4 is better than some "athalon" thing they never heard of.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Oh, I did that right after it happened, but I just had to comment that AT ONE TIME THEY HAD KNOWN PROBLEMS. I already said everything is fine and I would buy them. The point is nobody is perfect......

So you did. But to be nit picky about it all, the chipsets themselves have never had any problems. The drivers were a gamble for a long time, though. I'm glad I stuck it out through the "difficult" times. 😛

Who here remembers the chipset hardware problems the "competition" has had over the years? I do...

 

[batmanuel]

I wonder how much longer that is going to be true, especially if the Opteron keeps owning the Xeon in the server arena. Also, now that it looks like AMD will have around a 6-month head start on dual-core server chips, how much longer will it be until the coprpoate customers are screaming for Opteron servers? Dell is going to have to cave eventually if they intend to stay competitive in the server maket with IBM and Sun (who are offering Opteron solutions).

 

[PhoenixOrion]

Originally posted by: Hanpan
Dell does not see 25 people who chose to write the inquirer as it's customer base. They consdiser the universties that need 10K systems or the businesses that buy 500pc's every 3 years. These are the people who do not want/need AMD and who will be heeded. AMD works very well and in no way does this say amd is inferior, simply the largest customers do not want amd at this time. As others have pointed out, those who do know what AMD is and what the benefits and drawbacks are over intel are probably those who only buy dell when dell offers significant discounts. Not exactly the customer base they are probably focusing most on.

Well said. Take my company for example. Just on the eastern seaboard, we have about 7 sites and each site has minimum 1500 units and the larger sites have 9000 units. We have dell corporate orders of brand spankin new units every few years. Another thing is the icing on the cake for the dell sales manager with the service contract that comes with every purchase order.

 

[IPLaw]

Actually, they have been asking for AMD Opterons - and Dell sold them. Read up in the thread for the link.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Algere

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Algere
I'll bet the average Dell user would add more frustration for Dell tech support to handle on why their PC's arerunning butt slow on their systems when they multitask, an unfortunate disadvantage that's inherent with today's A64's.

Please don't make blanket statements like that
doesn't look like there is any real disadvantage here to me and most the instances/situational usage where HT does excel over the A64 line aren't being used extensively by the "average' Dell customer either. I'd wager more time is spent gaming by that "average" consumer than the hard situational mutitasking required to make HT shine.

I suppose the average consumer needs a A64 to play games that are so demanding that even a P4 won't be able to handle like "The Sims"? PC gaming isn't the primary reason for the majority of users (only a part).

Also I'm not making a "blanket statement" and your benchmark examples are only showing performance under how fast it is & not how responsive. I'm not disputing how fast a A64 is when more than 2 applications are using 100% CPU usage between a P4 and a A64 unless maybe under a DC application. I'm saying AFAIK the average user doesn't look at benchmarks, they're ignorant & they usually call Dell or ask sales reps @ BestBuy what they want to use their PCs for (email, web browsing, gaming, movies, encoding, word processing, etc.), that's why PC's are popular because they can do alot of things. The average user will base performance on how "snappy" or "responsive" their P4 powered Dell machines are compared to the AMD equivalent when they test it out @ a Best Buy or @ a friend's house while being ignorant to the fact that the equivalent A64 could do it faster.

Simple as this, to the average user if the computer seems fast (responsive) enough than they're satisfied. If it feels sluggish then they'll complain and HT pretty much helps remedy against that to an extent.

I don't know about you but I consider myself somewhat of an average user and although I do own/use a Athlon 64 in my primary system. I do wish that my system was more responsive when I encode a DVD while doing something else.

"I've never built or owned a P4c system, but it certainly sound like you are seeing the benefit HT can provide." - DAPUNISHER

P.S. Please excuse my repetitive use of the phrase "average user" or similar. 😀

I'm definitely a proponent of HT and HT shines situationally, so why quote me when we agree on that brudda? I'm not arguing against HT just that the circumstances required for the A64 to bonk while multitasking are not common. I do not rip or encode on the same system while doing something else as I own multiple systems. I might empathize more if I didn't but even then I'd just schedule them for beddyby time 😀

What Anand's benchmarks demonstrate is that the A64 and FX are effective at multitasking and given all performance differences there will likely be few situations where most will notice it. That's why I considered the comment about weak multitasking you made a blanket statement. your more detailed follow up post provides more insight into your perspective though so I gladly retract the remark 🙂

 

[Pariah]

One corporate customer who bought an Opteron CPU from Dell does not equate to there is enough customer demand to make selling AMD systems profitable for Dell. Very few people buy anything but lowend AMD systems when it comes to prebuilts because they are the cheapest systems around. When it comes to highend, look how many people have AMD systems on this board. Now raise your hand if you bought it prebuilt. I don't see anyone's hand. Now try to convince me that if Dell sold them, you would have bought your system from them instead of building your own. Save your time, you're not going to be able to. Anyone who buys highend from Dell has money to burn and will likely go Intel anyway, or is a corporate customer where cost isn't the end all criteria, and Intel rules. It does not make financial sense for Dell to start selling lowend AMD systems that undercut the higher margin Intel systems they are selling. Not to mention the added cost of developing a second platform, the significant increase in customer service costs that will incur, and any loss in discounts they get from Intel, plus the inability of AMD to deliver CPU's in large enough quantities that Dell would require, and you start to see why Dell has not, and probably will never sell AMD systems. Their goal is maximize profits, and adding AMD would not help their bottomline.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
I'm definitely a proponent of HT and HT shines situationally, so why quote me when we agree on that brudda? I'm not arguing against HT just that the circumstances required for the A64 to bonk while multitasking are not common. I do not rip or encode on the same system while doing something else as I own multiple systems. I might empathize more if I didn't but even then I'd just schedule them for beddyby time 😀

What Anand's benchmarks demonstrate is that the A64 and FX are effective at multitasking and given all performance differences there will likely be few situations where most will notice it. That's why I considered the comment about weak multitasking you made a blanket statement. your more detailed follow up post provides more insight into your perspective though so I gladly retract the remark 🙂

Glad that's cleared up then :thumbsup:

 

[sandorski]

ROFL

Dell has legitimate reasons to not have AMD processors(supply issues mostly), but this reasoning is laughable. It's like McDonalds saying they don't offer Whoppers because the customer never asks for them. Why would a knowledgable customer ask for something they know they can't have?