Dell reintroduces XP, following consumer pressure

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
LOL...tablet. And the server products counted. That was great. You should have used all the previous versions of NT too. And then listed OEM, retail and Upgrade versions as seperate products and not mentioned that they exist for vista too.

Theyre all different versions with different functions you dolt.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: csteggo

Originally posted by: KK
Is vista really that bad?

No Vista is not really that bad. Vista is the next step for secure computing as XP was in its day. The reason that there are software incompatibilities and driver conflicts are the secure design model. In this design model the operating system is the only access to hardware and low level memory access. With previous operating systems the software was able to access this and that allowed for poorly written programs to crash the whole system. Unfortunately that makes moving pre-Vista software a rather dicey proposition.
Is vista a better operating system than XP? Yes. Would I move over to it any time soon? No. I dont like the enforced DRM included in the system. I want a larger base of software before I switch. I would also like my developing environment to be more compatible, which ironically is a microsoft product.
The people that say all Vista is bloatware are some of the same people who will say that OS 10 and the Linux type operating systems are more secure. A little research will tell you differently. Also the comment that microsoft is the only OS to access the X86 architechture and that is why they have a virtual monopoly is blatently wrong. UNIX, Linix/OS 10 all work off of the x86 architechture. Sorry about the wall of text.

Haha, yeah Vista is so secure that it won't even let me delete the files owned by my login. After googling the net and going through 4/5 links/tabs to change file owner, permission, allowed actions, it still won't let me delete the files, and to be able to login as administrator I have to click through like 5 places to enable it. I deal with enterprise stuff at work everyday and even secured Unix box let me delete my own files and changing owner, permission and stuff takes one single command.

If making it tough to delete files and change ownership is the same as having a secured OS, Vista must own the title of most secure OS every developed.

Sounds to me you really dont know what youre doing lol

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
this has already been posted once, but it's worth repeating:

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMxOCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

The Bottom Line

It's a lemon.

Now, I like Microsoft as a company. They've put together impressive products and they can do some amazing things.

Windows XP Service Pack 2 is a very good operating system because it is stable, works with most hardware, and is easy to use.

I say this to impart that this is not a thoughtless slam or heedless rant against Microsoft, which can often be an inviting target.

Based on my personal experiences with Vista over a 30 day period, I found it to be a dangerously unstable operating system, which has caused me to lose data.

The 64-bit version is slightly better (which, frankly, surprised the hell out of us and makes us wonder if Microsoft didn't make a mistake in choosing to only distribute Home Premium 32-bit in the retail channel), but it still has stability problems.

Any consideration of the fine details comes in second to that one inescapable conclusion.

This is an unstable operating system.

When Microsoft moved from the DOS to the NT based architecture for its consumer products, they did so primarily because users were tired of operating systems that had poor stability. The move from Windows 98 to 2000 brought that stability to the masses. Now, users are tired of operating systems with poor security, and in an attempt to bring that security to them, Microsoft has undermined the operating system's stability and overall utility.

I can see what Microsoft was trying to do, but it may be that keeping Windows backwards compatible and making it more secure, all while trying to keep the OS stable may be an impossible task. I don't know if Vista will be improved with the next service pack, but the problems I found seem to stem not from flaws in code, but flaws in design.

I don't want to give into hyperbole, but at the end of the 30 days, I begged Managing Editor Jason Wall to let me reformat my computer and stop testing.

I really did want to like Vista. Yes, it is possible to enjoy both Windows and Linux - but unfortunately this product is unfit for any user. I still intend to keep a Windows XP partition on my computer for gaming and some multimedia editing, but as of the time of this publication, I have removed Vista entirely.


Editor-in-Chief's Note: The fact is that Vista is far from "unfit for any user," and this statement by the author is simply incorrect. If you read the discussion thread linked below you will find there are many Vista users that are having positive experiences. The author's experiences are his own and I think a great look into just some of the complications that can come with upgrading to Vista. Some have had worse experiences and some have had better. -Kyle

Thanks :thumbsup:

I had not seen this.

My experience has been similar.

Opinions are like a$$holes. Everyone has one and no one thinks their own stinks *shrug*

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Extelleron
It's not Microsoft's fault that software companies can't support their software. Vista is a great operating system... 99% of the troubles people have are related to SOFTWARE or DRIVERS, neither of which are the responsibilites of Microsoft.

It seems everyone around here blames MS about any problems with Vista, meanwhile it's the software companies that are screwing everyone.

Vista just isn't that great . . . if you've used Mac OS10. Even for XP users, it's really nothing special. On the otherhand, Vista is an absolute disaster when it comes to working with PRE-EXISTING software and hardware.

No it's not. It has more compatibility at launch than XP had at it's launch. And certainly more compatibility than OSX had at it's launch.

 

[dennilfloss]

Upgrading from XP Corporate to early Vista would be like going from Girlfriend 3.0 to Wife 1.0.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Upgrading from XP Corporate to early Vista would be like going from Girlfriend 3.0 to Wife 1.0.

Actually gotta give them a hand, since it doesn't work they'd never see each other

 

[blackangst1]

WTF triple post

 

[blackangst1]

holy sh1t triple post!

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
IMHO, Vista is bloatware, and considering that Vienna is slated for next year, I have absolutely no intention to downgrade my computing capabilities for just a pretty interface and a hefty sum gone out of my pockets...

To each their own. IMHO, it is a big mistake. Vista is much more than a "pretty interface" and it sure as hell isn't a "downgrade of computer capabilities". Vista is incredibly more robust from A to Z than Windows XP and I think consumers lose on this one. Did I mention Dell will charge you just as much for that machine with XP as it would with a flavor of Vista? Talk about getting short changed...

You're entitled to your opinion but my old 1999 beater of an AMD XP machine beats the pants off a brand new machine with Vista on it.

I've seen enough.

Jesus Dave youre a tool. And full of sh1t too.

1999 was the year AMD released socket K6 with 3D now, and what they call Model K75. The last rerlease of 1999 was a slot A, 750MhZ with a whopping 200MhZ front side bus lol

Im doubtful you run XP on this. In fact, without a screenshot, Im gonna say youre full of sh!t as usual.

 

[jackschmittusa]

blackangst1

Hmmm....I know for a fact that XP will run on a Duron800.

 

[mc00]

1999 was the year AMD released socket K6 with 3D now, and what they call Model K75. The last rerlease of 1999 was a slot A, 750MhZ with a whopping 200MhZ front side bus lol

Im doubtful you run XP on this. In fact, without a screenshot, Im gonna say youre full of sh!t as usual.

haha...

you really haven't mess with old hardware haven't you?

well you could run xp with p3 and amd k6 and 700mhz.. the trick to it just get recent hd made around 2005 and up with 7200rpm or even 5400rpm, and put 512mb in it and get video card has at least 32mb and agp and tweak xp little.. believe me would handle watching video,browsering,etc.. except gaming and encoding. thou you could play some older(2000 and down) game on it, if you get decent video card. my daughter laptop I fix for her is 700mhz and 256 and seagate 2006 hd, and has xp sp2 including all the update and run her kiddy game fine and nickjr.

ps:
as anyone notice Dell there compare with xp and vista
for vista they gave it full circle
for "Performance

Excellent speeds for Startup, Shutdown and Resume times."
actually disagree with this. xp load up pretty fast on my system using sataII.. gotta love marketing of Vista..
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segt...aspx/winxp_inspn?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
IMHO, Vista is bloatware, and considering that Vienna is slated for next year, I have absolutely no intention to downgrade my computing capabilities for just a pretty interface and a hefty sum gone out of my pockets...

To each their own. IMHO, it is a big mistake. Vista is much more than a "pretty interface" and it sure as hell isn't a "downgrade of computer capabilities". Vista is incredibly more robust from A to Z than Windows XP and I think consumers lose on this one. Did I mention Dell will charge you just as much for that machine with XP as it would with a flavor of Vista? Talk about getting short changed...

You're entitled to your opinion but my old 1999 beater of an AMD XP machine beats the pants off a brand new machine with Vista on it.

I've seen enough.

Jesus Dave youre a tool. And full of sh1t too.

1999 was the year AMD released socket K6 with 3D now, and what they call Model K75. The last rerlease of 1999 was a slot A, 750MhZ with a whopping 200MhZ front side bus lol

Im doubtful you run XP on this. In fact, without a screenshot, Im gonna say youre full of sh!t as usual.

I've been running XP on a PIII 700MHz with 512MB ram for the last two years in my office at school and it runs great for what I use it for (Word, Powerpoint, etc.) I have a computer farm to run simulations, etc.

Hell, for the first 6 months I was using it, it only had 256MB of ram and it was fine, except for the bloat that is Outlook, which forced me to restart it once a week.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
IMHO, Vista is bloatware, and considering that Vienna is slated for next year, I have absolutely no intention to downgrade my computing capabilities for just a pretty interface and a hefty sum gone out of my pockets...

To each their own. IMHO, it is a big mistake. Vista is much more than a "pretty interface" and it sure as hell isn't a "downgrade of computer capabilities". Vista is incredibly more robust from A to Z than Windows XP and I think consumers lose on this one. Did I mention Dell will charge you just as much for that machine with XP as it would with a flavor of Vista? Talk about getting short changed...

You're entitled to your opinion but my old 1999 beater of an AMD XP machine beats the pants off a brand new machine with Vista on it.

I've seen enough.

Jesus Dave youre a tool. And full of sh1t too.

1999 was the year AMD released socket K6 with 3D now, and what they call Model K75. The last rerlease of 1999 was a slot A, 750MhZ with a whopping 200MhZ front side bus lol

Im doubtful you run XP on this. In fact, without a screenshot, Im gonna say youre full of sh!t as usual.

I've been running XP on a PIII 700MHz with 512MB ram for the last two years in my office at school and it runs great for what I use it for (Word, Powerpoint, etc.) I have a computer farm to run simulations, etc.

Hell, for the first 6 months I was using it, it only had 256MB of ram and it was fine, except for the bloat that is Outlook, which forced me to restart it once a week.

OK on this I will cooncede. I honestly forget there are alot of people who just do simple stuff and dont use it for I do. My bad.

If thats the case, Vista home basic would work just fine.

 

[mithrandir2001]

Originally posted by: mc00
ps:
as anyone notice Dell there compare with xp and vista
for vista they gave it full circle
for "Performance

Microsoft likely forces them to create and display such a comparison in exchange for OEM bulk pricing.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
blackangst1

Hmmm....I know for a fact that XP will run on a Celeron 366.

Fixed, now back to the topic at hand.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: csteggo

Originally posted by: KK
Is vista really that bad?

No Vista is not really that bad. Vista is the next step for secure computing as XP was in its day. The reason that there are software incompatibilities and driver conflicts are the secure design model. In this design model the operating system is the only access to hardware and low level memory access. With previous operating systems the software was able to access this and that allowed for poorly written programs to crash the whole system. Unfortunately that makes moving pre-Vista software a rather dicey proposition.
Is vista a better operating system than XP? Yes. Would I move over to it any time soon? No. I dont like the enforced DRM included in the system. I want a larger base of software before I switch. I would also like my developing environment to be more compatible, which ironically is a microsoft product.
The people that say all Vista is bloatware are some of the same people who will say that OS 10 and the Linux type operating systems are more secure. A little research will tell you differently. Also the comment that microsoft is the only OS to access the X86 architechture and that is why they have a virtual monopoly is blatently wrong. UNIX, Linix/OS 10 all work off of the x86 architechture. Sorry about the wall of text.

Haha, yeah Vista is so secure that it won't even let me delete the files owned by my login. After googling the net and going through 4/5 links/tabs to change file owner, permission, allowed actions, it still won't let me delete the files, and to be able to login as administrator I have to click through like 5 places to enable it. I deal with enterprise stuff at work everyday and even secured Unix box let me delete my own files and changing owner, permission and stuff takes one single command.

If making it tough to delete files and change ownership is the same as having a secured OS, Vista must own the title of most secure OS every developed.

Sounds to me you really dont know what youre doing lol

Heh, if Vista can make someone like me with 2 master's degree and getting paid 6 figure in the IT field not knowing what I am doing. My hats off to them.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
blackangst1

Hmmm....I know for a fact that XP will run on a Duron800.

I have XP Pro running on an old Dell laptop with a P3-400 and 256 mb. It only has a 12.1 screen so it will even play Divx movies for the grandkid when traveling.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
blackangst1

Hmmm....I know for a fact that XP will run on a Duron800.

I have XP Pro running on an old Dell laptop with a P3-400 and 256 mb. It only has a 12.1 screen so it will even play Divx movies for the grandkid when traveling.

Hell, the 1998-model Thinkpad I had (P2-300) would run XP Pro reasonably decent. Certainly not lightning fast compared to a current model, but definitely usable.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: csteggo

Originally posted by: KK
Is vista really that bad?

No Vista is not really that bad. Vista is the next step for secure computing as XP was in its day. The reason that there are software incompatibilities and driver conflicts are the secure design model. In this design model the operating system is the only access to hardware and low level memory access. With previous operating systems the software was able to access this and that allowed for poorly written programs to crash the whole system. Unfortunately that makes moving pre-Vista software a rather dicey proposition.
Is vista a better operating system than XP? Yes. Would I move over to it any time soon? No. I dont like the enforced DRM included in the system. I want a larger base of software before I switch. I would also like my developing environment to be more compatible, which ironically is a microsoft product.
The people that say all Vista is bloatware are some of the same people who will say that OS 10 and the Linux type operating systems are more secure. A little research will tell you differently. Also the comment that microsoft is the only OS to access the X86 architechture and that is why they have a virtual monopoly is blatently wrong. UNIX, Linix/OS 10 all work off of the x86 architechture. Sorry about the wall of text.

Haha, yeah Vista is so secure that it won't even let me delete the files owned by my login. After googling the net and going through 4/5 links/tabs to change file owner, permission, allowed actions, it still won't let me delete the files, and to be able to login as administrator I have to click through like 5 places to enable it. I deal with enterprise stuff at work everyday and even secured Unix box let me delete my own files and changing owner, permission and stuff takes one single command.

If making it tough to delete files and change ownership is the same as having a secured OS, Vista must own the title of most secure OS every developed.

Sounds to me you really dont know what youre doing lol

Heh, if Vista can make someone like me with 2 master's degree and getting paid 6 figure in the IT field not knowing what I am doing. My hats off to them.

I dunno man...the first few Google results gave me:
This from MS itself
Or this

Of course YMMV, but after I had the same issue myself, it took me all of 10 minutes to figure it out. I completely respect you education in IT, being a heavily certified IT person myself, but maybe in your frustration you made it too difficult? I've done that

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: catnap1972


Hmmm....I know for a fact that XP will run on a Duron800.

[/quote]

AMD K6-2 300 on a laptop in our kitchen w/ 256 ram and it plays DVDs, but it will not play youtube movies, besides that it works fine for internet browsing with XP when guests come over.

I have a dual cpu pentium pro 200mhz that runs XP pro also, but no, it is not a uber seti cruncher or anything but it runs firefox and plays Starcraft on battlenet just fine.

l2 disable unneeded background apps ftw.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

For that matter, user-modified XP-based operating systems like TinyXP are an extraordinary trove for people with low computing power and older hardware...

NOT Vista....

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You're entitled to your opinion but my old 1999 beater of an AMD XP machine beats the pants off a brand new machine with Vista on it. I've seen enough.

OK Dave, I challenge you to a duel. :laugh:

My new Vista machine against your 1999 beater. I'm sure you'll eek out the victory.

Your Vista hate fest is laughable.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You're entitled to your opinion but my old 1999 beater of an AMD XP machine beats the pants off a brand new machine with Vista on it. I've seen enough.

OK Dave, I challenge you to a duel. :laugh:

My new Vista machine against your 1999 beater. I'm sure you'll eek out the victory.

Your Vista hate fest is laughable.

lol I thought the same thing. I, too, have a Core2Duo rig...but Im sure Dave's AMD K6-750 can recode, rip, burn, and unRAR 4 different movies at the same time like we can. Im sure of it!

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
For that matter, user-modified XP-based operating systems like TinyXP are an extraordinary trove for people with low computing power and older hardware...

NOT Vista....

These "user modified" installations based on Windows XP also suffer from and inherit the numerous vulnerabilities. Vista isn't perfect, but it is a lot better.

If your hardware is that old you should be running a Linux distro, not Windows.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
For that matter, user-modified XP-based operating systems like TinyXP are an extraordinary trove for people with low computing power and older hardware...

NOT Vista....

These "user modified" installations based on Windows XP also suffer from and inherit the numerous vulnerabilities. Vista isn't perfect, but it is a lot better.

If your hardware is that old you should be running a Linux distro, not Windows.

you know, statements like this... they really are asinine.
Why should anyone go Linux when running a perfectly good P3-900 MHz? The Microsoft operaring systems have a stranglehold on the software market, and most programmers code for them.

XP is far from milked for all its worth... and Vista is not worth the hassle.

An operating system should not require 2 GB of RAM, 20 GB of free HD space and videocards with more computing power than the entire NASA control centre, only for the sake of a half-baked so-called 3D interface.