Dell Received $6B Through Secret Intel Pact

[Nemesis 1]

IDC, we don't all know that. You may believe that, but I do not at all. The Government agency in charge of this does in fact care about the consumers, as it is the primary reason to take such a job in the first place. Your initial quote does not have any backing, and I would definitely challenge it.

I can see clearly you know what your talking about. Oh! Excuse me a second while I light up a i love you. Good thing they care about us consumers isn't it .

 

[Idontcare]

If AMD couldn't sell more than they could produce, then why did Intel even bother paying Dell all those years?

Bingo

To me this is the QED. Intel's actions are what will cinch the deal on their being deemed guilty.

Naturally the defense will be an attempt to detract from themselves and attempt to turn the scrutiny towards AMD, but at the end of the day the question posed to the judge and jury will be "if Intel had no choice but to find themselves in their current market position then why did it take sooo much money in rebates and favorable pricing to their resellers in the meantime?"

richierich1212 you'd make an awesome lawyer imo (assuming you aren't one already), short to the point and punchy.

 

[Idontcare]

Nemesis Public Service Announcement system activated!

I can see clearly you know what your talking about. Oh! Excuse me a second while I light up a i love you. Good thing they care about us consumers isn't it .

"i love you" in this sense is meant to refer to British slang term for a cigarette and is not meant to connote a slur against the gay community.

Please no flame-wars over misunderstandings of the intended/implied use of this term as used so far in this thread.

This has been a test of your local Public Service Announcement system, had this been an actual emergency you would have been instructed to tuck your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!

 

[Nemesis 1]

If AMD couldn't sell more than they could produce, then why did Intel even bother paying Dell all those years?

You can bet the Bank that Intel is going to drive that point home along with fact AMD was at 100% capicity. A good lawyer will take an opossion stance and turn it around to benefit their client.

 

[Markfw]

It wasn't like that at all until X2 appeared P4 and AMD 64 were pretty even . Intel won many Benchies . But AMD64 was stronger in games . A kid thing mostly.

I beg to differ. In fact The Opteron was handily beating the P4 based Xeon in speed and lower power. Anandtech even did an article on it when they converted their server farm to Opterons. You might be responding on an Opteron server right now ! In the end user market, they also most almost everything except encoding benchmarks.

As for your other comment about factories@100% and easily winning the case, what in the world does that have to do with the fact that (if true) Intel broke the law ?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Bingo

To me this is the QED. Intel's actions are what will cinch the deal on their being deemed guilty.

Naturally the defense will be an attempt to detract from themselves and attempt to turn the scrutiny towards AMD, but at the end of the day the question posed to the judge and jury will be "if Intel had no choice but to find themselves in their current market position then why did it take sooo much money in rebates and favorable pricing to their resellers in the meantime?"

richierich1212 you'd make an awesome lawyer imo (assuming you aren't one already), short to the point and punchy.

I don't think so. Who was intel biggest partner . Who sold the most intel cpus chipsets. Thats the company who gets biggest discounts . Its ordinary business volumn buying gets you volumn discounts . Thats something all americans understand clearly.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I beg to differ. In fact The Opteron was handily beating the P4 based Xeon in speed and lower power. Anandtech even did an article on it when they converted their server farm to Opterons. You might be responding on an Opteron server right now ! In the end user market, they also most almost everything except encoding benchmarks.

As for your other comment about factories@100% and easily winning the case, what in the world does that have to do with the fact that (if true) Intel broke the law ?

I don't care what Ananda said I care about Ananda reviews which back up what I said along with all other reviews. AMD 64 won more but not alot it was very close . I fought you guys 4 years ago on this and the reviews back than still support my view up to X@ . X2 was were AMD slapped Intel silly.

 

[richierich1212]

I don't think so. Who was intel biggest partner . Who sold the most intel cpus chipsets. Thats the company who gets biggest discounts . Its ordinary business volumn buying gets you volum discounts . Thats something all americans understand clearly.

"Under a secret arrangement once-called the "Mother of all Programs," Intel paid Dell a rebate based on the total value of chips the computer maker bought, according to the lawsuit. The percentage of the rebate varied but reached up to 16% as Dell contemplated using AMD products.

The payments were so large that in 2002 Dell stopped considering the introduction of some products using AMD chips when Dell worried that Intel would end about $250 million in payments and give them instead to competitors, according to the lawsuit."

So how is this ordinary business volume discounting??

 

[Nemesis 1]

Lets try this.

A theif. God is judging .

Which is more wrong to steal a million dollars from a bank . Or is it more wrong to steal 1 dollar from a poor person . Most here threw broken reasoning will say the million is the bigger wrong .
NOT in GODs eyes . Christ gave us a clue . When giving offerrings which is held higher a large amount from rich or small amount from poor . Christ reveals all trueths . The WORD is undeneiable. The poor person gave all they could while the rich did not . Greed losses Charity wins.

 

[piesquared]

lol, well it's hardly surprising that this is one of the few places on the internet that the majority of replies are in favor of intel's illegal and criminal activities over the past decade and more. It's pretty entertaining and educational at the same time, watching certain members trying to rationalize and even justify this mountain of evidence that is piling up showing intel's guilt in attempting to lock out competition.

I hope this stings: even with all that money and pressure excerted around the world to try to kill off it's competitor, intel STILL faces a line of products that are competitive with it's own. Just imagine, as intel obviously has, how the landscape would look with AMD having a free flowing R&D budget, and not constrained by an illegal monopolist doing everything in it's power to maintain status quo. Sometimes vindication just feels good, and I have to say this is one of those times...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Ya might ask how that thief thing fits in this .

Lets call Intel god here.
Lets call Gods biggest supporter Dell . Dell kept feeding into god . as a reward for good faith and service to god. god rewards its biggest support with more Grace(money)

Intels / dell relationship was very good and god gave back to its servant for his good works. Intel was selling CPus cheaper than AMD at time were discussing . So poor intel even tho more powerful than the greedy whining devil who was whining and cring the whole time was over charging for its product while at 100% capity . God just kept on with business as usual overcame the devil while at the same time forcing lower pricies . The devil because he is lying gathered no fruit when it had advantage . That gett us to judgement day . day in court . The timing on this couldn't be better and this case does infact reflect reality . Judgement is at hand . I witness against you even tho I am you .

Dell is the poor person here who started life in lowly garadge who gave all it could to god. God rewarded said actions with grace(money ) The poor became rich in grace for its good service to god. Thats how it works in real life'

 

[Nemesis 1]

Whats dells first name . whos number 1 angle what its name

 

[jvroig]

Whats dells first name . whos number 1 angle what its name

I thought Gabriel was the #1 angel, not Michael. Or do you mean Lucifer before the fall?

I don't know, I could hardly follow your religious analogy...

 

[brybir]

If I was Intel lawyer. I would win the case easily . I would just make sure that people on jury are smart enough to understand what factories running at 100% output means . It basicly means AMD couldn't sell more than they could produce. This is well known fact that Intel is going to pound home. On the EU thing . Intel should have just said screw you . Were done selling in this market . That gives AMD the EU and Intel the world. Because AMD hasn't the capity to supply the EU with enough CPUs

So you would abandon the (now) largest economic market in the world (the EU) out of spite? Losing one quarter of net profit does not justify pulling out of what is probably Intel's first or second largest market. Intel's duty is to its shareholders, not petty spite. Part of the game of business (anywhere) is to play within the system until the point at which you do not make enough money to justify it. So, the EU fines Intel, it pays the fine, and works within the system. In the meantime Intel continues to make money in the EU.

If you are actually an attorney, which I doubt based on your comments, you would know that their is no such thing as "winning easily" in an anti-trust action. Particularly when you are facing a civil anti-trust action from AMD, a state/federal action by the NY AG, and the looming likelihood that the FTC is going to be coming knocking on your door soon. These are serious things to be worried about whether you believe you can win or not. This is notwithstanding the fact that Intel has already been found to violate the rules in Japan, South Korea and the EU. While each country has different rules, it is hard to imagine that you will "win easily" when the tide, apparent facts and previous decisions have gone against you.

Making statements about educating the juror's is great in principle but is certainly much more difficult than you think. Wait until those same juror's sit through a three - month long anti-trust action where they are read tens of thousands of emails and records saying things that make Intel look like a giant monopolist trying to keep down the little guy. Then go and say....well that does not really matter cause they could not make any more CPU's anyways. My reaction to your statement would have been "then why did Intel need to keep up this aggressive rebate program that appears to be based on loyalty to products. Why would Intel, a profit maximizing firm, spend tens of billions of dollars trying to keep companies loyal if AMD was not a threat due to capacity issues".

My point is that these are not simple issues. These actions are complex, can get very dirty as Intel's laundry is exposed to the world, and could invite additional scrutiny from other countries. Not to mention that the Dell's and others are going to be getting a hard look at by the various agencies. I would be real pissed to be a Dell shareholder if it turns out these rebates were not stated appropriately and I had believed that Dell was making its profit based on profitable activities, not massive kickbacks that could eventually go away and significantly devalue the company and its shares.


Summary:
1. Your statements indicate that you have no business sense as you let spite rather than profits dictate your actions
2. Your statements indicate that you have no legal sense as you make blanket allegations and conclusions based on apparent facts and issues of law which are much more complex than you are aware of. Additionally, you believe that you are an excellent anti-trust lawyer again, based on your presumption that common knowledge and "education of jurors" is sufficient to win an anti-trust action
3. Your religious examples above are incoherent, make incorrect statements of Christian theology and purport to prove a point and dictate morals that are in apostate to this current issue.

 

[jvroig]

I hope this stings: even with all that money and pressure excerted around the world to try to kill off it's competitor, intel STILL faces a line of products that are competitive with it's own. Just imagine, as intel obviously has, how the landscape would look with AMD having a free flowing R&D budget, and not constrained by an illegal monopolist doing everything in it's power to maintain status quo. Sometimes vindication just feels good, and I have to say this is one of those times...

+1

I'm looking forward to AMD to start making real profit again, and have "free flowing" R&D budget.

I have no doubt that AMD's production capacity back then was no match for Intel's, but that's no defense for illegal strong-arm tactics.

 

[Idontcare]

I don't think so. Who was intel biggest partner . Who sold the most intel cpus chipsets. Thats the company who gets biggest discounts . Its ordinary business volumn buying gets you volumn discounts . Thats something all americans understand clearly.

If AMD was at capacity then why did Intel need to incentivize their customers with volume rebates in the first place?

Just who exactly was Intel competing with when the volume rebate was paid out? Transmeta?

Why did DELL need a volume rebate in order to incentivize them to keep buying Intel chips from Intel if they had no choice but to buy chips from Intel because AMD was at capacity?

 

[jvroig]

If AMD was at capacity then why did Intel need to incentivize their customers with volume rebates in the first place?

Just who exactly was Intel competing with when the volume rebate was paid out? Transmeta?

Why did DELL need a volume rebate in order to incentivize them to keep buying Intel chips from Intel if they had no choice but to buy chips from Intel because AMD was at capacity?

And if he were actually going to listen to reason, he'd have done so already the first time you QED'd him Man loves Intel, let him keep his love flowing.

 

[Nemesis 1]

So you would abandon the (now) largest economic market in the world (the EU) out of spite? Losing one quarter of net profit does not justify pulling out of what is probably Intel's first or second largest market. Intel's duty is to its shareholders, not petty spite. Part of the game of business (anywhere) is to play within the system until the point at which you do not make enough money to justify it. So, the EU fines Intel, it pays the fine, and works within the system. In the meantime Intel continues to make money in the EU.

If you are actually an attorney, which I doubt based on your comments, you would know that their is no such thing as "winning easily" in an anti-trust action. Particularly when you are facing a civil anti-trust action from AMD, a state/federal action by the NY AG, and the looming likelihood that the FTC is going to be coming knocking on your door soon. These are serious things to be worried about whether you believe you can win or not. This is notwithstanding the fact that Intel has already been found to violate the rules in Japan, South Korea and the EU. While each country has different rules, it is hard to imagine that you will "win easily" when the tide, apparent facts and previous decisions have gone against you.

Making statements about educating the juror's is great in principle but is certainly much more difficult than you think. Wait until those same juror's sit through a three - month long anti-trust action where they are read tens of thousands of emails and records saying things that make Intel look like a giant monopolist trying to keep down the little guy. Then go and say....well that does not really matter cause they could not make any more CPU's anyways. My reaction to your statement would have been "then why did Intel need to keep up this aggressive rebate program that appears to be based on loyalty to products. Why would Intel, a profit maximizing firm, spend tens of billions of dollars trying to keep companies loyal if AMD was not a threat due to capacity issues".

My point is that these are not simple issues. These actions are complex, can get very dirty as Intel's laundry is exposed to the world, and could invite additional scrutiny from other countries. Not to mention that the Dell's and others are going to be getting a hard look at by the various agencies. I would be real pissed to be a Dell shareholder if it turns out these rebates were not stated appropriately and I had believed that Dell was making its profit based on profitable activities, not massive kickbacks that could eventually go away and significantly devalue the company and its shares.


Summary:
1. Your statements indicate that you have no business sense as you let spite rather than profits dictate your actions
2. Your statements indicate that you have no legal sense as you make blanket allegations and conclusions based on apparent facts and issues of law which are much more complex than you are aware of. Additionally, you believe that you are an excellent anti-trust lawyer again, based on your presumption that common knowledge and "education of jurors" is sufficient to win an anti-trust action
3. Your religious examples above are incoherent, make incorrect statements of Christian theology and purport to prove a point and dictate morals that are in apostate to this current issue.

Intel duty is to its share holders????? Than intel owes its shareholders 10 billion in bribies by your reasoning. I use to have Intel stock . I never felt cheated.
Were is incorrect statements about Christians . Were did the New testament come from who decided what went in what wasn't in . ROME did . New testment only has small amount of trueth . All paul wrote was lies . He never new Christ and sets himself against Christ. When he states the third person(spirit) of GOd saved him . When infact the second person of God the Living Word did say none can come to God except threw ME. Now either THE Living WORD (Christ) or Paul of ROME is lying . Thats in your BIBLE. Whos lying.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Rome is a liar . Moslems are liars, Jews are liars. Last but not least All politicans are liars and lawyers. AMD is proven liar


----
What is wrong with you? Take this somewhere else.
AnandTech Administrator Evadman

 

[jvroig]

... so Intel is God, and AMD is Paul? Or is the NY AG Paul?

 

[jvroig]

Rome is a liar . Moslems are liars, Jews are liars. Last but not least All politicans are liars and lawyers. AMD is proven liar

Right before that post, I thought you weren't just here for flamebaiting :\

 

[Idontcare]

And if he were actually going to listen to reason, he'd have done so already the first time you QED'd him Man loves Intel, let him keep his love flowing.

Nemesis is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, which is then wrapped in bacon, deep fried, slathered in butter, turkey, and more bacon, deep-fried again, and ready to cause heart failure in just about anyone that attempts to digest him thereafter :biggrin:...while frustrating to some I find it enjoyable to interact with him. Kind of like running your own Monte Carlo simulation where you just aren't sure what the next response will be but you need to accumulate about a thousand of them before a mean to the distribution can be established with any confidence

In gambling analogy, I just can't help myself from putting in another nickle and pulling the handle, who knows what will come up next?

 

[jvroig]

Nemesis is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, which is then wrapped in bacon, deep fried, slathered in butter, turkey, and more bacon, deep-fried again, and ready to cause heart failure in just about anyone that attempts to digest him thereafter :biggrin:...while frustrating to some I find it enjoyable to interact with him. Kind of like running your own Monte Carlo simulation where you just aren't sure what the next response will be but you need to accumulate about a thousand of them before a mean to the distribution can be established with any confidence

In gambling analogy, I just can't help myself from putting in another nickle and pulling the handle, who knows what will come up next?

I hear you. But with blatantly offensive blanket statements like his most previous "All X are liars" post... wow... I just didn't see that coming.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Right before that post, I thought you weren't just here for flamebaiting :\

I am not here to bait anyone. Funny thing about forums . Its one place were the fish bait their own hooks and than are stupid enough to bite bait.

 

[jvroig]

Right, of course you aren't. So what exactly were you doing when you stated:

Rome is a liar . Moslems are liars, Jews are liars. Last but not least All politicans are liars and lawyers. AMD is proven liar

I bet Muslims and Jews and "Rome" (do you mean Romans, or the Catholic Church?) would find that statement rather "flamebait-y". I mean, come on, what if the Pope dropped by the AT forums and saw your post. He might get very disappointed at you

Just my 0.02. Far be it from me to wrestle with you, what with you being "an unconquerable opponent" and all that.