dell comp.. no agp?

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
M

MadOni0n

Senior member
Sep 4, 2004
379
0
0
about half a year ago my dad got a dell comp, reasonable hardware.. 3.4ghz p4, 512 ram, but w/ integrated graphics (no need for anything else) for his office. now he got a newer computer so he gave this computer to my little bro. so i opened it up, and tried to stick my old gf4 ti4200 into it. low and behold... if you order a dell w/o a vid card they give you a mobo w/ NO agi or pci-e slot?

so what kind of mobo can i buy that will fit? and secondly, what does dell put under the cpus? thermal pad? since ive never opened it, i fear trying to replace the mobo .. ill find out that the cpu is glued to the mobo or something.
 
J

jgigz

Senior member
Jul 14, 2006
413
0
76
From my expierience with dell, most of their cases are micro atx so youll need to get a mobo thats compatable with micro form factor. Another thing to note is that the HSF will only fit on that motherboard and in that case, so more than likely you will have to buy an aftermarket HSF. And the last bit of advice that i have for you is when my bro tried upgrading his video card ram and mobo on his dell, windows will not allow you to re-register it seeing as its been applied to certain hardware and dell only allows you to make very minimal upgrades (mem, vid card at max) so it pretty much renders the OS useless if you're making that big of an upgrade. It happend to my brother when he tried to upgrade then he wound up eating 200$ for xp home. Hope I helped.

Edit: You would probally be better of just using the proc and other stuff and plan on building another computer. It will save you a very big headache.
 
M

Maxspeed996

Senior member
Dec 9, 2005
848
0
0
First , if it's a P4 it can only be two sockets 478 or LGA775. Because it's a year and a half old , it could be either one. The only way to know for sure is to pull off the heatsink , and look at the white area of the socket where it's marked with what socket it is.
Oh , and I've taken a bunch of 478 socket Dell's apart and taken the processors out of them. They aren't glued in. The come right out once you lift the release latch on the processor.
If it's a 478 socket board , and you want to keep your price down because you already have an AGP card that you want to give to your lil bro'.....I'd look into an ASUS board. They were very easy to work with , and had lots of options. Check out NewEgg soon as I've looked around a bit , and started seeing 478 socket options start to dwindle down with the release of the new chip this week.
If it does turn out to be LGA775 .....well.....ASUS has a few nice boards for around $50 that you can pick up that are decent options for something like what you are trying to do.
Good luck!
 
Z

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
18,998
0
0
Yup, the big box pushers really limit your options (limited upgrade of CPU and memory, and add a drive or two) - best to pass them down to someone who can live within their limitations or sell them and apply the proceeds to a real DIY system.

.bh.
 
M

Maxspeed996

Senior member
Dec 9, 2005
848
0
0
Originally posted by: jgigz
From my expierience with dell, most of their cases are micro atx so youll need to get a mobo thats compatable with micro form factor. Another thing to note is that the HSF will only fit on that motherboard and in that case, so more than likely you will have to buy an aftermarket HSF. And the last bit of advice that i have for you is when my bro tried upgrading his video card ram and mobo on his dell, windows will not allow you to re-register it seeing as its been applied to certain hardware and dell only allows you to make very minimal upgrades (mem, vid card at max) so it pretty much renders the OS useless if you're making that big of an upgrade. It happend to my brother when he tried to upgrade then he wound up eating 200$ for xp home. Hope I helped.

Edit: You would probally be better of just using the proc and other stuff and plan on building another computer. It will save you a very big headache.[/Q]

That's exactly what he's asking to do.
You can re-use the fan as long as it's for the same socket processor. What is the model? Is it a dimension? Opti-plex? They are not Micro-ATX they are all standard ATX.
I've got 10 478 socket P4 2.4 processors , and heatsinks (some with , and some without fans). And I've added them into other ASUS and other manufacturers boards with no problems. Either way, the best advice you will get from any techie on this site , is going to be to use this forum to get information , and use those tools to help yourself do a bit of homework on the subject to find out what the truth / real answer for your situation may be.
Click to expand...
 
C

cker

Member
Dec 19, 2005
175
0
0
I've heard the Dell systems are not compliant with the ATX power connection pinouts. My understanding of this is that there are some electrical connections that differ on the power supply - mainboard link, and that this could cause you to kill a non-Dell board used with a Dell PSU, or to kill a Dell board used with a non-Dell PSU. From the first link it looks like only Dell systems from 1996 to 2000 were affected, so it probably doesn't apply to you... still you may want to check it.

Dell has nice chassis, though. I can certainly see wanting to re-use the case. Proprietary mainboards are weird to upgrade (for some good and some bad reasons), whether they're Dell, HP, GW, et c. If I were doing it, I'd probably do what others have said and just get a commodity mainboard. There's sure to be lots of parts you can reuse in there, though.

http://www.quepublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=31105&seqNum=4&rl=1
Scroll down to "Dell Proprietary (Nonstandard) ATX Design" for info on the PSU concern.


http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=dellconverter
From that page:
Known exceptions:
Pentium 4 Dell Models that do not require a power supply adapter:
Dell Dimension 4300, 4400, 4700, 8200, 8300, OptiPlex GX 400
Pentium 4 Dell Models that are not compatible with this power supply adapter:
Dell Dimension 8100


 
G

GrammatonJP

Golden Member
Feb 16, 2006
1,245
0
0
its a cheaper dell.. probably the value series.. which DOES NOT have pcie or agp slots

you need to pay higher for the dimension 4xxx series to get agp slot.. the 2xxx/3xxx gets zip..
 
J

jgigz

Senior member
Jul 14, 2006
413
0
76
Originally posted by: Maxspeed996
Originally posted by: jgigz
From my expierience with dell, most of their cases are micro atx so youll need to get a mobo thats compatable with micro form factor. Another thing to note is that the HSF will only fit on that motherboard and in that case, so more than likely you will have to buy an aftermarket HSF. And the last bit of advice that i have for you is when my bro tried upgrading his video card ram and mobo on his dell, windows will not allow you to re-register it seeing as its been applied to certain hardware and dell only allows you to make very minimal upgrades (mem, vid card at max) so it pretty much renders the OS useless if you're making that big of an upgrade. It happend to my brother when he tried to upgrade then he wound up eating 200$ for xp home. Hope I helped.

Edit: You would probally be better of just using the proc and other stuff and plan on building another computer. It will save you a very big headache.
Click to expand...

You can re-use the fan as long as it's for the same socket processor. What is the model? Is it a dimension? Opti-plex? They are not Micro-ATX they are all standard ATX.
I've got 10 478 socket P4 2.4 processors , and heatsinks (some with , and some without fans). And I've added them into other ASUS and other manufacturers boards with no problems. Either way, the best advice you will get from any techie on this site , is going to be to use this forum to get information , and use those tools to help yourself do a bit of homework on the subject to find out what the truth / real answer for your situation may be.
Click to expand...

In my brothers dimension he bought a year ago, there were special motherboard mouting screws that held the HSF to the mobo and then this giant wind tunnel that went around it. There was no way to salvage it at all but this might not be true on the older versions
 
M

MadOni0n

Senior member
Sep 4, 2004
379
0
0
Originally posted by: jgigz
From my expierience with dell, most of their cases are micro atx so youll need to get a mobo thats compatable with micro form factor. Another thing to note is that the HSF will only fit on that motherboard and in that case, so more than likely you will have to buy an aftermarket HSF. And the last bit of advice that i have for you is when my bro tried upgrading his video card ram and mobo on his dell, windows will not allow you to re-register it seeing as its been applied to certain hardware and dell only allows you to make very minimal upgrades (mem, vid card at max) so it pretty much renders the OS useless if you're making that big of an upgrade. It happend to my brother when he tried to upgrade then he wound up eating 200$ for xp home. Hope I helped.

Edit: You would probally be better of just using the proc and other stuff and plan on building another computer. It will save you a very big headache.
Click to expand...


wow is this true? this plus the psu problem is gonna be a headache. ill probably just try to take out the HD, ram and proc then and build a new system with it...

hmm edit: would be getting a pci vid card maybe a stupid idea? i just need something to play cs:s at the lowest settings
 
M

Maxspeed996

Senior member
Dec 9, 2005
848
0
0
Originally posted by: cker
I've heard the Dell systems are not compliant with the ATX power connection pinouts. My understanding of this is that there are some electrical connections that differ on the power supply - mainboard link, and that this could cause you to kill a non-Dell board used with a Dell PSU, or to kill a Dell board used with a non-Dell PSU. From the first link it looks like only Dell systems from 1996 to 2000 were affected, so it probably doesn't apply to you... still you may want to check it.

Dell has nice chassis, though. I can certainly see wanting to re-use the case. Proprietary mainboards are weird to upgrade (for some good and some bad reasons), whether they're Dell, HP, GW, et c. If I were doing it, I'd probably do what others have said and just get a commodity mainboard. There's sure to be lots of parts you can reuse in there, though.

http://www.quepublishing.com/articles/article.asp?p=31105&seqNum=4&rl=1
Scroll down to "Dell Proprietary (Nonstandard) ATX Design" for info on the PSU concern.


http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=dellconverter
From that page:
Known exceptions:
Pentium 4 Dell Models that do not require a power supply adapter:
Dell Dimension 4300, 4400, 4700, 8200, 8300, OptiPlex GX 400
Pentium 4 Dell Models that are not compatible with this power supply adapter:
Dell Dimension 8100
Click to expand...

Great advice here , and correct , but like he said , I don't think the Power Supply is going to be a problem for you. And the cases are actually really nice, I like how they hinge open and have the green duct to direct fresh air into the case to the top of the heatsink.
 
J

jgigz

Senior member
Jul 14, 2006
413
0
76
A pci vid card would not be able to play source at the lowest settings. Not to mention for a pci fx5500 its a bout 100$ and the agp model is close to 60$. you would be better off taking the hdd ram proc and build a new system like you said. You will also need a new OS because dell doesnt allow any fricking hardware upgrades (minor ones but not this) and you can get a x800gto for close to 150$ and that will play it on Higher settings well (its what i have atm). If thats outta your budget you probally can get the new ASrock VSTA board that will support conroe for you in the future and has an agp slot then you can pick up a 6600 or something for cheap. Lemme know if you need help finding components but Im going to lunch ill be back in about 2hrs

Edit: You need to find out what socket it is btw before you can really plan out any builds. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161166 is a good PCI-e vid card thats 124$ and itll play source at med-high settings @ or near 100fps (if not higher) btw thats the vid card I have and i highly recomend it.
 
M

Maxspeed996

Senior member
Dec 9, 2005
848
0
0
Originally posted by: jgigz
From my expierience with dell, most of their cases are micro atx so youll need to get a mobo thats compatable with micro form factor. Another thing to note is that the HSF will only fit on that motherboard and in that case, so more than likely you will have to buy an aftermarket HSF. And the last bit of advice that i have for you is when my bro tried upgrading his video card ram and mobo on his dell, windows will not allow you to re-register it seeing as its been applied to certain hardware and dell only allows you to make very minimal upgrades (mem, vid card at max) so it pretty much renders the OS useless if you're making that big of an upgrade. It happend to my brother when he tried to upgrade then he wound up eating 200$ for xp home. Hope I helped.

Edit: You would probally be better of just using the proc and other stuff and plan on building another computer. It will save you a very big headache.
Click to expand...

I did some checking on this as well , In Jgigz case , this is probably correct becuase this would be considered a MAJOR hardware change. Windows has to be re-registered if the changes are so major that 7 points on the hardware scale do not match the previous system. Microsoft has a scale that they use to identify each piece of hardware in a system on a points scale. If all you are replacing is the motherboard and keeping everything else....processor , harddrive , ram , CD / DVD drives , floppy drive you should be fine. But you may want to read below and see if it will apply to your situation.
From microsoft's website.
http://www.microsoft.com/ireland/piracy/acti_faqu.asp#details
click on Technical activation details , then scroll down to How does product activation determine tolerance?

How does product activation determine tolerance? In other words, how many components of the PC must change before I am required to reactivate?
Common changes to hardware such as upgrading a video card, adding a second hard disk drive, adding RAM or upgrading a CD-ROM device will not require the system to be reactivated.

Specifically, product activation determines tolerance through a voting mechanism. There are 10 hardware characteristics used in creating the hardware hash. Each characteristic is worth one vote, except the network card which is worth three votes. When thinking of tolerance, it's easiest to think about what has not changed instead of what has changed. When the current hardware hash is compared to the original hardware hash, there must be 7 or more matching points for the two hardware hashes to be considered in tolerance. If the network card is the same, then only 4 additional characteristics must match (because the network card is worth 3, for a total of 7). If the network card is not the same, then a total of 7 characteristics other than the network card must be the same. If the device is a laptop (specifically a dockable device), additional tolerance is allotted and there need be only 4 or more matching points. Therefore, if the device is dockable and the network card is the same, only one other characteristic must be the same for a total vote of 4. If the device is dockable and the network card is not the same, then a total of 4 characteristics other than the network card must be the same.


The 10 hardware characteristics used to determine the hardware hash are: Display Adapter, SCSI Adapter, IDE Adapter, Network Adapter MAC Address, RAM Amount Range (i.e. 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc), Processor Type, Processor Serial Number, Hard Drive Device, Hard Drive Volume Serial Number, CD?ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM.
 
D

dexvx

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2000
3,899
0
0
Originally posted by: jgigz
You will also need a new OS because dell doesnt allow any fricking hardware upgrades (minor ones but not this) and you can get a x800gto for close to 150$ and that will play it on Higher settings well (its what i have atm).
Click to expand...

What kinda BS is that? You need to re-register,doesnt mean you have to buy a new OS.

But I agree, better off buying a new computer.
 
W

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
IBM, HP, Dell all do that. Select value oriented models will not have a graphics expansion slot.

Just because a machine has intergrated graphics doesn't mean the slot won't be there... You just have to do some research first. Usually they detail this on their web site... I know IBM does.
 
Z

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
18,998
0
0
A mobo change is considered a new machine per M$'s OEM license, and a new license has to be paid for. It can be gotten thru M$ for less than buying retail but you will probably have to pay.

Go BSD or Linux and tell M$ to go suck eggs.

.bh.
 
J

jgigz

Senior member
Jul 14, 2006
413
0
76
its not bs when my bro did his upgrade, everything worked fine until you go into login then it did the usual where it would just ask you to reactivate. I went through the process twice on phone and it would not re-register at all. In most cases when re-activation fails they will transfer you to a customer rep. Since the os is licensed through dell they would not allow re-activation and wouldnt send you to a customer rep. We tried to go through dell and get the install cd so he could reformat, but that would have cost 25$ +s&h + another 3-7 days for shipping. If you still dont belive me I would very much like you to go through it then cry about it when im right...

Edit: well somehow my quote didnt work but that was directed towards dexvx
 
J

jgigz

Senior member
Jul 14, 2006
413
0
76
Originally posted by: Zepper
A mobo change is considered a new machine per M$'s OEM license, and a new license has to be paid for. It can be gotten thru M$ for less than buying retail but you will probably have to pay.

Go BSD or Linux and tell M$ to go suck eggs.

.bh.
Click to expand...


I didnt know you could do that about how much does it cost?
 
P

Pretty Cool

Senior member
Jan 20, 2000
872
0
0
That Dimension 3000 uses a microATX motherboard. Problem here is that Dells are proprietary. The issue is not the power supply as those are standard. The obstacle you will face is the connectors from the motherboard to the case. Those are non-standard. So, if you wish to keep the case, your best option would be to buy a better Dell motherboard that used the same case. The Demension model that does include an AGP card is the 4600. Because this is a Dell board, you should have less problems with activating. Downside is that the board is not-common and probably must be purchased via Ebay. Cost would be about $100 which may or may not be cost effective considering that you can buy an AMD64 3400 combo at Newegg for $90.
 
S

sniperruff

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
11,644
2
0
just put in google "dell dimension xxxx documentation" and you'll get your info. xxxx being model number. 9100, 8400, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom