Defective CPU, or something else?

[Carfax83]

I recently put together a new build, which includes a 5930K processor, an Asus X99-A 3.1 motherboard, and 32GB of G.Skill Trident Z 3200MHz DDR4.. For cooling I have a Noctua NH-D15, which I'm highly impressed with.:thumbsup:

Anyway, it's been nothing but misery so far unfortunately. After I hooked everything up together, I noticed a buzzing sound coming from inside the chassis..

At first I thought it was some coil whine of some sort, but I have the same GPUs I used in my previous build and they have never had any coil whine whatsoever. Also, the fans turn off about 10 seconds after booting up.

To cut a long story short, I connected the buzzing sound with the USB ports at the back of the motherboard. If my mouse was plugged in to any of the ports, the buzzing sound would be very loud, and worsened when moving the mouse.

So at this point I was convince that I had a bad motherboard and was about to file for an RMA when I remembered that the buzzing sound never manifested until after I started adjusting some settings....specifically XMP.

So in the end, I found out that the buzzing sound was definitely being caused by my RAM settings, or to be more specific the XMP settings which are DDR4 3200, 16-18-18-36 2T.

Apparently, the high frequency and relatively low timings (plus the capacity) are putting the CPU's IMC under a lot of stress (will not pass any stability tests using this ram speed, even at stock CPU clock), because I'm almost certain that buzzing sound is coming from the on die VRMs located on the CPU itself.

I tried lowering the RAM settings down to something more reasonable, like DDR4 2666 15-15-15-35 and it STILL caused problems.. Only when I dialed it back all the way to DDR4 2133 did the buzzing completely stop and it passed the stability tests for Prime95 blend @ 4.4ghz @ 1.265v.

Now I have several questions. First one is, is it normal for these Haswell E CPUs to emit a buzzing sound when their memory controllers are put under pressure? If it isn't normal, do you recommend I return the CPU and get a replacement?

I bought mine from Microcenter and I have 30 days or so to return it for a refund or a replacement.

Second question is, what are the chances that the motherboard itself is the culprit? I think it's highly unlikely that the motherboard or the RAM are to blame, but I'm no expert...

 

[MongGrel]

That almost sounds too weird to be true on RAM, but you're running things higher end than I am.

First time I'd heard of anything like that myself.

Pretty interesting.

Is the buzzing isolated from any kind of internal/onboard sound card ?

I'd imagine it seems you would have ruled that out but had to ask.

You do have a Sound Blaster card in your sig, those things used to be notorious for buzzing probs.

 

[Carfax83]

That almost sounds too weird to be true on RAM, but you're running things higher end than I am.

First time I'd heard of anything like that myself.

Pretty interesting.

Is the buzzing isolated from any kind of internal/onboard sound card ?

I'd imagine it seems you would have ruled that out but had to ask.

You do have a Sound Blaster card in your sig, those things used to be notorious for buzzing probs.

It's definitely not the soundcard, or anything sound related. The onboard audio is disabled, and my soundcard hasn't even been installed yet in the system. Basically all I was doing was trying to tweak the hardware to see what I could get out of it, so I wasn't going to add the soundcard until that process is finished.

I've stuck my head God knows how many times in the chassis, and the sound is always coming from the area that the CPU is in. Now if I had my old 4930K, then yeah, I would think there is no way it could make that sound as the VRMs for the x79 platform are on the motherboard.

But with Haswell, the VRMs are on the CPU itself, which I think makes it capable of making that kind of sound....but only when I'm running the RAM at high speeds..

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I've stuck my head God knows how many times in the chassis, and the sound is always coming from the area that the CPU is in. Now if I had my old 4930K, then yeah, I would think there is no way it could make that sound as the VRMs for the x79 platform are on the motherboard...

The VRM (FIVR) on the processor supplies voltage for the CPU and graphics cores, SA, IO and PLL. The VRM on the motherboard steps down the +12.0V from the power supply to a voltage value that is suitable as a supply voltage for the FIVR.

 

[MongGrel]

A loose fan on the CPU cooler ?

I've done dumber things than that in the past

 

[Carfax83]

The VRM (FIVR) on the processor supplies voltage for the CPU and graphics cores, SA, IO and PLL. The VRM on the motherboard steps down the +12.0V from the power supply to a voltage value that is suitable as a supply voltage for the FIVR.[/QUOTE]

So x99 motherboards still have VRMs then.. What are the chances that it's the motherboard VRMs that I'm hearing rather than the ones in the CPU mysticjbyrd?

 

[Carfax83]

A loose fan on the CPU cooler ?

I've done dumber things than that in the past

That wouldn't cause a buzzing sound. The sound is definitely electrical in nature, almost as though a house fly is buzzing around inside my case, but a significantly higher pitch.

And like I said earlier, the sound increased when I plugged in my mouse and started moving it.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

So x99 motherboards still have VRMs then.. What are the chances that it's the motherboard VRMs that I'm hearing rather than the ones in the CPU mysticjbyrd?

Yes. They are generally two large perpendicular blocks connected to one another, and located just beside the CPU.

I can't say for certain what the odds are, as I have never experienced this particular issue. My money is on either the mb or a bad memory oc.

 

[Carfax83]

Yes. They are generally two large perpendicular blocks connected to one another, and located just beside the CPU.

I can't say for certain what the odds are, as I have never experienced this particular issue.

Well since you told me this information, I now think it's the motherboard..

When I plugged in my mouse in the USB 3.0 port in the back, the noise worsened. And since the USB is integrated into the motherboard itself, that's the link I was looking for to simultaneously explain why the noise worsened when I plugged my mouse in the USB port, as well as why the noise seemed to be coming from the CPU.

Of course it wasn't coming from the CPU however, but the motherboard VRMs which are located in close proximity to the CPU!

So I'm going to start the RMA process for this motherboard so I can get a replacement. I have to admit, it would be kind of strange if it had been the CPU. Intel's quality assurance is pretty damn good. I've never had a bad CPU from them, at any time..

I've had quite a few defective motherboards though... D: Thanks mysticjbyrd, you've been of great help.

I wish I would have made this thread earlier, as it would have saved me a lot of time and a terrible headache.. :'(

 

[Burpo]

Defective CPU? Intel plainly lists what RAM the CPU can utilize.

Memory Types DDR4 1333/1600/2133

http://ark.intel.com/products/82931/Intel-Core-i7-5930K-Processor-15M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz

Not to mention that memory isn't on the QVL for that motherboard.

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA2011/X99-A/X99_Series_DRAM_QVL_20151223.pdf

Still, if you want to try it, here's a guide..
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53306-DDR4-3000-Setup-Guide-For-Rampage-V-Extreme
"needs a System Agent Voltage of 1.14V to run memory at 3000MHz."

 

[ShintaiDK]

The HEDT platform is very sensitive to memory speeds. If you for example uses 8 DIMMs, you can pretty much forget any form of memory OC. This is a downside of quad channel.

 

[Carfax83]

Defective CPU? Intel plainly lists what RAM the CPU can utilize.

I thought it may have been defective because of the VRM buzzing/whining, and not because of stability issues..

Luckily mysticjbyrd clarified that there are VRMs on the motherboard that are close to the CPU, so that is where the problem lies in all likelihood..

Not to mention that memory isn't on the QVL for that motherboard.

Yeah I already read that before. I never had much hope that I would be able to run 32GB of DDR4 3200 with perfect stability, but I had no idea that running even at 2666 would be so difficult..

Though I definitely think this motherboard has a problem..

Still, if you want to try it, here's a guide..
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53306-DDR4-3000-Setup-Guide-For-Rampage-V-Extreme
"needs a System Agent Voltage of 1.14V to run memory at 3000MHz."

I'll definitely have a look thanks..

 

[Carfax83]

The HEDT platform is very sensitive to memory speeds. If you for example uses 8 DIMMs, you can pretty much forget any form of memory OC. This is a downside of quad channel.

I'm using 4 DIMMs but 32GB of capacity..

 

[ShintaiDK]

I'm using 4 DIMMs but 32GB of capacity..

Yes, it was just an example. Its sensitive to 4 DIMMs as well. Try take a look around and see what people get in average for memory on the platform.

 

[Burpo]

I thought it may have been defective because of the VRM buzzing/whining, and not because of stability issues..

Probably clock jitter

 

[mysticjbyrd]

OC'ing your memory is fairly pointless anyways.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well since you told me this information, I now think it's the motherboard..

When I plugged in my mouse in the USB 3.0 port in the back, the noise worsened. And since the USB is integrated into the motherboard itself, that's the link I was looking for to simultaneously explain why the noise worsened when I plugged my mouse in the USB port, as well as why the noise seemed to be coming from the CPU.

Of course it wasn't coming from the CPU however, but the motherboard VRMs which are located in close proximity to the CPU!

So I'm going to start the RMA process for this motherboard so I can get a replacement. I have to admit, it would be kind of strange if it had been the CPU. Intel's quality assurance is pretty damn good. I've never had a bad CPU from them, at any time..

I've had quite a few defective motherboards though... D: Thanks mysticjbyrd, you've been of great help.

I wish I would have made this thread earlier, as it would have saved me a lot of time and a terrible headache.. :'(

My 4790K failed at about 8 months of light use. Intel replaced it.

 

[Carfax83]

OC'ing your memory is fairly pointless anyways.

I think it really depends on your platform. For Z170 platforms, having fast memory can make a difference as the CPUs have less cache, and a dual channel interface.

On the x99 platform, it's the opposite. Haswell-E has anywhere from 15 to 20mb of L3 cache, which means less cache misses and less trips to main memory than Skylake CPUs which only have 8mb of L3 cache.

And then the quad channel interface, which provides more bandwidth than practically any consumer software can use..

So why did I buy it you might ask? I got it on sale at Newegg. Was $229 originally, but I got it for $204

 

[Carfax83]

My 4790K failed at about 8 months of light use. Intel replaced it.

Never had a chip fail myself, even after abusing them. I once had a Core i7 920 D0 stepping chip, that I ran for about 4 years straight with some very high voltage. I can't remember the exact voltage, but I think it was around 1.425v..

Only in the last few months of my last year of ownership did it begin to show signs of degradation, in that it was requiring more voltage to sustain the 4.2ghz clock speed that I had it running at.

That said, I don't run high voltage through my CPUs anymore. I find the sweet spot, rather than trying to get the most out of it. For my current 5930K processor, the sweet spot seems to be 4.3ghz, which it can easily do at 1.2v.

At 4.4ghz, it requires 1.265v, which to me isn't worth it for just a 100mhz jump. To hit 4.5 it would likely require 1.3v, but I haven't tried so I'm not sure..

 

[LTC8K6]

Mine was undervolted most of the time. One day, it just quit working. Computer wouldn't boot and was giving the "bad cpu" error. It wouldn't work in any board. It just died on me.

 

[crashtech]

Isn't this just coil whine? GPUs aren't the only things that can have this problem. I'd RMA the board and try something different. Asus is traditionally a nice board, but they haven't really been giving the kind of quality for the money as some other makers. The ASRock X99 Extreme6's power delivery system might just be less susceptible to audible vibration than the X99-A. The Extreme4 also shares the same power delivery system, I believe.

 

[Carfax83]

Isn't this just coil whine? GPUs aren't the only things that can have this problem.

I'm pretty sure it's the VRMs on the motherboard that are the problem, based on the location of the sound and the fact that plugging in my mouse made the sound much worse, until I down clocked the memory.

I already got an RMA approval and my new board will be here Tuesday.

I'd RMA the board and try something different. Asus is traditionally a nice board, but they haven't really been giving the kind of quality for the money as some other makers. The ASRock X99 Extreme6's power delivery system might just be less susceptible to audible vibration than the X99-A. The Extreme4 also shares the same power delivery system, I believe.

I kind of agree with this. My previous motherboard was an Asrock Extreme6 x79, and it was awesome. Never gave me any problems at all, and it performed like a champ.

But there's a couple good reasons I went with Asus this time.

1) None of the Asrock X99 motherboards are fully compatible with my Noctua NH-D15 heatsink. The heatsink blocks the first PCI-e slot from being used, which is unacceptable. This heatsink is the best heatsink I've ever used and it's performance is amazing, so there's no way I'm going to drop it just so I can get an Asrock board.

2) I was curious about Asus's OC socket technology.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Mine was undervolted most of the time. One day, it just quit working. Computer wouldn't boot and was giving the "bad cpu" error. It wouldn't work in any board. It just died on me.

Your bolded signature makes more sense now :twisted:

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think it really depends on your platform. For Z170 platforms, having fast memory can make a difference as the CPUs have less cache, and a dual channel interface.

On the x99 platform, it's the opposite. Haswell-E has anywhere from 15 to 20mb of L3 cache, which means less cache misses and less trips to main memory than Skylake CPUs which only have 8mb of L3 cache.

And then the quad channel interface, which provides more bandwidth than practically any consumer software can use..

So why did I buy it you might ask? I got it on sale at Newegg. Was $229 originally, but I got it for $204

Exactly :thumbsup:

It goes from not enough to more than plenty. For a EDRAM Z170 (Like Broadwell-C), memory speed is also much less important. Tho bandwidth with dual channel is still what it is.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I'm pretty sure it's the VRMs on the motherboard that are the problem, based on the location of the sound and the fact that plugging in my mouse made the sound much worse, until I down clocked the memory.

I already got an RMA approval and my new board will be here Tuesday.

Good to hear, hopefully it fixes it.

USB power is funny enough something often overseen in terms of VRM issues. Some mobo makers also got special USB headset ports for the same reason.