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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
60,235
12,744
136
Fascists and nazis and filth, oh my.
No one said Nazis. Fascists and filth? Absolutely. Though there are a couple self-proclaimed Nazis who ran in the Republican primaries last time round and got tens of thousands of Republican votes. It would be wrong to say all Republicans are Nazis, but at is fair and accurate to say that tens of thousands of them are. Plus Stephen Miller, aide to President Trump, certainly espouses Nazi ideology if not Nazi identity.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,654
2,167
126
No, it’s an accurate description for the Republican Party. If the Republicans don’t wish to be in the same bin as some of the worst filth of the twentieth century, they can choose to stop being fascists.
You're certainly welcome to that opinion, but I disagree with it. I see the term used frequently, and often it's describing an emotional reaction, not an existing condition.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
You're certainly welcome to that opinion, but I disagree with it. I see the term used frequently, and often it's describing an emotional reaction, not an existing condition.
I think there’s a decent intellectual argument for strong similarities between the current Republican Party and 20th century fascist movements. I’m not kidding.

It’s a hyper-nationalist movement promoting a return to imagined traditional morality that also favors robust government intervention in the economy in favor of established economic interests.

Seems pretty similar to fascism to me, where do you disagree? There’s nothing about fascism that requires murderousness or world conquest or whatever.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
60,235
12,744
136
I think there’s a decent intellectual argument for strong similarities between the current Republican Party and 20th century fascist movements. I’m not kidding.

It’s a hyper-nationalist movement promoting a return to imagined traditional morality that also favors robust government intervention in the economy in favor of established economic interests.

Seems pretty similar to fascism to me, where do you disagree? There’s nothing about fascism that requires murderousness or world conquest or whatever.
Add to it the incestuous relationship between big business and government and the protection of monied interests over human rights that the Republican Party promotes and one can logically conclude that the modern Republican Party is a fascist party and has been for decades now.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
Add to it the incestuous relationship between big business and government and the protection of monied interests over human rights that the Republican Party promotes and one can logically conclude that the modern Republican Party is a fascist party and has been for decades now.
I agree! People don't like being labeled as fascists due to the obvious terrible historical examples of fascism but there's a reason why fascist parties existed to begin with, a lot of the things they stood for are things conservatives like!
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,654
2,167
126
Fascism. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
We still have three branches of government.
We have a capitalist economy, but the control changes hands every few years.
Violent suppression of opposition isn't government sponsored, though it's mostly limited to college campuses.
Belligerent nationalism and racism is a tough one. On the one hand it's clearly present in US society, but it appears to be present in almost every society. People just don't like folks that aren't in their tribe.

My personal opinion still stands, the term has been applied to every situation where someone didn't get their way.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
No, it’s an accurate description for the Republican Party. If the Republicans don’t wish to be in the same bin as some of the worst filth of the twentieth century, they can choose to stop being fascists.
Many people fight very hard for their own rights and freedoms, but ONLY for their own rights and freedoms, and are generally against any right or freedom they disagree with, and then can't understand why people call them fascists.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
Fascism. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
We still have three branches of government.
We have a capitalist economy, but the control changes hands every few years.
Violent suppression of opposition isn't government sponsored, though it's mostly limited to college campuses.
Belligerent nationalism and racism is a tough one. On the one hand it's clearly present in US society, but it appears to be present in almost every society. People just don't like folks that aren't in their tribe.

My personal opinion still stands, the term has been applied to every situation where someone didn't get their way.
Seems like you have to admit that the Republican Party stands for all of those things other than violent suppression of the opposition and even in that case they are pretty clearly violence-curious.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,352
4,625
136
Fascism. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
We still have three branches of government.
We have a capitalist economy, but the control changes hands every few years.
Violent suppression of opposition isn't government sponsored, though it's mostly limited to college campuses.
Belligerent nationalism and racism is a tough one. On the one hand it's clearly present in US society, but it appears to be present in almost every society. People just don't like folks that aren't in their tribe.

My personal opinion still stands, the term has been applied to every situation where someone didn't get their way.
The argument was party of facists... And ehm how well are those three branches working again? And ehm who exactly is running the Executive branch? Da? You are so close to fucked but libtards. Ok then.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,654
2,167
126
Seems like you have to admit that the Republican Party stands for all of those things other than violent suppression of the opposition and even in that case they are pretty clearly violence-curious.
I don't see the dictator. Government controlled economy is clearly a both sides deal. I'll give you nationalism, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
I don't see the dictator. Government controlled economy is clearly a both sides deal. I'll give you nationalism, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.
We currently have a Republican Party that is openly supporting the ability of the president to use public money to undermine his political opponents, appropriate money without the consent of Congress, and who rejects oversight by Congress as a concept. I agree he's not a dictator but it's surely dictator-curious.

If you look more closely into the history of fascism you'll see that the government controlled the economy through partnerships with large, established corporations. This is definitely a Republican thing. Democrats also want to control the economy but in a substantially different way. You can say what Democrats want to do with the economy is a bad idea, but it's not fascist.

As for the extreme nationalism, whether or not you see it as a good thing or a bad thing doesn't matter here - it's a defining feature of fascism. This relates to my previous point, which is that the reason fascism happened is a lot of what it does strongly appeals to conservatives. That's why conservatives made fascism to begin with!
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
Seems like you have to admit that the Republican Party stands for all of those things other than violent suppression of the opposition and even in that case they are pretty clearly violence-curious.
Hey, 3 outta 4 ain't bad.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,352
4,625
136
T
I don't see the dictator. Government controlled economy is clearly a both sides deal. I'll give you nationalism, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.
The trick is that when you do... its too late.I hope you dont think the kompromat or interference in elections isnt real or has an effect or dont care... Whatever, democracy is for the ignits to lose.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,273
2,971
126
Fascism. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
We still have three branches of government.
We have a capitalist economy, but the control changes hands every few years.
Violent suppression of opposition isn't government sponsored, though it's mostly limited to college campuses.
Belligerent nationalism and racism is a tough one. On the one hand it's clearly present in US society, but it appears to be present in almost every society. People just don't like folks that aren't in their tribe.

My personal opinion still stands, the term has been applied to every situation where someone didn't get their way.
That is a cop out, as opposed to a cop in! Nice try Greeny!!
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
I don't see the dictator. Government controlled economy is clearly a both sides deal. I'll give you nationalism, but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.
It would seem to me that a President who is above the law and who doesn't have to answer to Congress is the same as a dictator. Wouldn't you agree?

And the reason why nationalism is a bad thing is because it always leads to the oppression of minorities and to war. Patriotism is absolutely a good thing, but nationalism generally involves ethnostatism (ie 'America is a white Christian nation,' 'Israel is for Jews only,' etc) which inevitably leads to persecution of minorities, and also the belief that one's nation is superior to all other nations and thus entitled to taking resources from other nations by force, ie war.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
It would seem to me that a President who is above the law and who doesn't have to answer to Congress is the same as a dictator. Wouldn't you agree?

And the reason why nationalism is a bad thing is because it always leads to the oppression of minorities and to war. Patriotism is absolutely a good thing, but nationalism generally involves ethnostatism (ie 'America is a white Christian nation,' 'Israel is for Jews only,' etc) which inevitably leads to persecution of minorities, and also the belief that one's nation is superior to all other nations and thus entitled to taking resources from other nations by force, ie war.
You would think the first half of the 20th century would be a good lesson as to why nationalism is a bad thing but I guess some lessons have to be relearned.
 
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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,808
1,697
136
We still have three branches of government.
The senate is doing everything they can to prove you wrong here. Not to mention the high politicized federal bench.

Violent suppression of opposition isn't government sponsored, though it's mostly limited to college campuses.
Although it hasn't been violent, there has been obvious abuses of power within the government both the white house and the DOJ to attack the political opposition.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
The senate is doing everything they can to prove you wrong here. Not to mention the high politicized federal bench.

Although it hasn't been violent, there has been obvious abuses of power within the government both the white house and the DOJ to attack the political opposition.
I mean as we speak Republicans are defending the president’s right to use public money to force baseless criminal investigations into his political opponents.

Like literally as we speak.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
I mean as we speak Republicans are defending the president’s right to use public money to force baseless criminal investigations into his political opponents.

Like literally as we speak.
But Hillary!
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,835
6,293
136
Posted this awhile back, but I'll drop it in here since it fits the current discussion. Political science professor Lawrence Britt published this in 2003, 13 years before Trump was elected. Fourteen notable characteristics of fascism.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Britt was describing fascism as it had then existed in the past. However, had Britt had been attempting to predict the characteristics of a future American President and his following, he must have had psychic powers of precognition.

 
Dec 10, 2005
20,503
1,826
126
The government is controlled by the oligarchs who run the economy, no matter which figurehead is installed.
Indeed. We have runaway capitalism, or as Adam Smith would probably put it, government controlled by rent-seekers who are bent on protecting their own interests at the expense of society.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,619
593
126
The senate is doing everything they can to prove you wrong here. Not to mention the high politicized federal bench.


Although it hasn't been violent, there has been obvious abuses of power within the government both the white house and the DOJ to attack the political opposition.
The Democrats in the House are try to invalidate the 3 branches of our government. Don't like the constitutional power of the Executive branch? Just deem that "obstruction of Congress" and not wait for the 3rd branch to weigh in.
 
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brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
5,619
593
126
Posted this awhile back, but I'll drop it in here since it fits the current discussion. Political science professor Lawrence Britt published this in 2003, 13 years before Trump was elected. Fourteen notable characteristics of fascism.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3.Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Britt was describing fascism as it had then existed in the past. However, had Britt had been attempting to predict the characteristics of a future American President and his following, he must have had psychic powers of precognition.

Let's run the numbers:

1. Right wing
2. Neither
3. Left
4. Right
5. Both
6. Left
7. Left
8. Neither
9. Both
10. Both
11. Both
12. Both
13. Both
14. Both
 
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