Decoding ATI's Radeon 8500 clock speed scramble **UPDATE** ATi responds on clock speed issue

[NFS4]

Interesting

http://www.tech-report.com/columns/damage/2001q4/ati/

 

[Adul]

I say fire ATI marketing dept.

 

[boyRacer]

shame on them. i had a rage fury maxx before and was extremely satisfied... i was thinking of getting the new radeon but oh well... i guess its stilll nvidia for now.

 

[CuervDoh]

Yuck yuck yuck. Kinda Stooge-like hunh?

 

[MoobyTheGoldenCalf]

<< I say fire ATI marketing dept. >>



. . . and the driver department and upper management too.

 

[Sugadaddy]

I don't understand how they can find it confusing...

Retail= Shiny red and black Box = 275/275 all the time.

OEM, brown box, white box, Dell, paper bag, lunch box, cards made by Joe Blow from Ohio = 250/250


Bottom line, buy the damn retail card for 5$ more and be done with it.

 

[Pocatello]

off topic, does China now produce all our videocards and computer peripherals? This is just a question, nothing against made in China or any other country.

 

[AGodspeed]

Boy, ATi is engaging in some really low class behavior. What are the PR guys going to say now that Wasson has an actual ATi board, and not a 3rd party board, running at 250!

ATi is really stumbling on their new cards.

 

[Rickten]

so glad I didn't jump on the dell deal, come so close. I had it in my cart and was about to push the confirm or submit whatever it is and I got this gut feeling that I shouldn't do it. Thank you for indigestion.

 

[Sugadaddy]

<< Boy, ATi is engaging in some really low class behavior. What are the PR guys going to say now that Wasson has an actual ATi board, and not a 3rd party board, running at 250!

ATi is really stumbling on their new cards. >>




Why is it wrong if ATI sells OEM boards? It's not like they're putting differently clocked cards in the retail boxes, the OEM version is just clocked lower.


Low class behavior... Give me a break!



BTW, did anybody get their card from Dell? If so, were they retail or OEM versions? (when I mentioned Dell previously, I meant the cards in Dell systems...)

 

[Pariah]

So what? Newegg has the clock and memory speed listed with their OEM card and has had it since before this article broke, if you can't read, or the vendor chooses not to list the speed, that's a different issue. Except for HD's and CPU's, I don't know why anyone would want to buy OEM, you're just asking for problems that saving a couple bucks won't compensate for.

 

[MoobyTheGoldenCalf]

<< Why is it wrong if ATI sells OEM boards? It's not like they're putting differently clocked cards in the retail boxes, the OEM version is just clocked lower.


Low class behavior... Give me a break! >>




There is nothing wrong with selling OEM boards, or even OEM boards at a lower clock speed. What IS wrong is purposely trying to mislead consumers into believing that the OEM cards are the same as retail and both are clocked at 275/275. That is exactly what ATI is doing. And yes, that is low class behavior.

 

[Darkhawk28]

ATI has been putting different clockings on Retail vs. OEM cards for years. This is absolutely no surprise for me.

 

[NFS4]

<< I don't understand how they can find it confusing...

Retail= Shiny red and black Box = 275/275 all the time.

OEM, brown box, white box, Dell, paper bag, lunch box, cards made by Joe Blow from Ohio = 250/250


Bottom line, buy the damn retail card for 5$ more and be done with it. >>




<<

<< Boy, ATi is engaging in some really low class behavior. What are the PR guys going to say now that Wasson has an actual ATi board, and not a 3rd party board, running at 250!

ATi is really stumbling on their new cards. >>




Why is it wrong if ATI sells OEM boards? It's not like they're putting differently clocked cards in the retail boxes, the OEM version is just clocked lower.


Low class behavior... Give me a break! >>


---------------------------------------------------------


<< A4: No. The only RADEON 8500 board that ATI is selling into retail is an ATI-branded 275/275-configured product that comes packaged in a distinctive ATI gift box, marked "Built By ATI." >>


Then they go on to say:


<< As a consequenece, there are boards available from third parties today with RADEON 8500-based chips of a 250/250 configuration. >>



YET, the card that The Tech Report bought is clocked at 250/250 and is clearly marked as an ATI card in the pictures. It has ATI's name plastered ALL OVER the card with their logos and identification. They are just trying to confuse the customer.

 

[NFS4]

<< So what? Newegg has the clock and memory speed listed with their OEM card and has had it since before this article broke, if you can't read, or the vendor chooses not to list the speed, that's a different issue. Except for HD's and CPU's, I don't know why anyone would want to buy OEM, you're just asking for problems that saving a couple bucks won't compensate for. >>


NewEgg DID NOT list the clock speeds of the OEM 8500 card UNTIL customers called in and complained b/c they were receiving 250/250 cards. They were also MISLEAD by ATI as they had recently said that there would be no clock speed difference between OEM and retail cards. That is why they didn't list the clock speeds before hand b/c they assumed that they would be 275/275 like the retail cards.

 

[RaiderJ]

<<<
Low class behavior... Give me a break!
<<<

You bet it is. Selling two different cards as one and the same is very low class behavior. Like it was said earlier, if ATI sold the cards as two different ones, that would be fine. But for those of us who purchase a OEM card thinking it's just a retail card w/o all the extra packaging, it's very dissapointing.

I went from a TNT2 card to my current Radeon 64MB DDR, which I am very pleased with. However, in my next upgrade, I'm going to stick with NVIDIA. Their cards perform better, have better drivers, and NVIDIA doesn't try and push this kind of marketing past consumers.

I think ATI makes great cards, and it's really sad that they overshadow this with poor drivers and poor marketing. I think most would agree that ATI would have a happy customer base if they fixed these issues, even if they didn't beat out NVIDIA in performance tests.

 

[Sugadaddy]

Q4: Some customers are claiming that ATI is selling RADEON 8500 boards with 250/250 processors in retail. Is this true?

A4: No. The only RADEON 8500 board that ATI is selling into retail is an ATI-branded 275/275-configured product that comes packaged in a distinctive ATI gift box, marked "Built By ATI."

However, ATI is selling RADEON 8500-based chips to its OEM, ODM and AIB business partners in whatever configuration they deem appropriate for their customers. As a consequence, there are boards available from third parties (doesn't mean MADE by third parties) today with RADEON 8500-based chips of a 250/250 configuration. We will be making a related announcement about this in the next few days. Historically, ATI has always sold its chip and board products to OEMs in whatever configuration they required to either achieve a certain price point or reach a specific end-user customer market. Since June, when ATI began selling its chips to ODMs and AIBs, it has offered these business partners the same flexibility it affords OEMs.


I agree it's unclear, but it's still there...

 

[MoobyTheGoldenCalf]

<< ATI has been putting different clockings on Retail vs. OEM cards for years. This is absolutely no surprise for me. >>



Well, I've never bought an ATI card before, so it sure as hell was a surprise for me. Especially after the PR guy from ATI stated that the OEM and Retail would both be 275/275.

 

[Pariah]

"YET, the card that The Tech Report bought is clocked at 250/250 and is clearly marked as an ATI card in the pictures."

You misread the quote from ATI.

"No. The only RADEON 8500 board that ATI is selling into retail is an ATI-branded 275/275-configured product that comes packaged in a distinctive ATI gift box, marked "Built By ATI."

White box OEM, whether manufactured by ATI or not does not fall into this category. It also says the box is marked "Built by ATI", not the card, though you would assume it is too. ATI nor anyone else sells OEM products into retail, they go through a third party.

 

[NFS4]

<< Q4: Some customers are claiming that ATI is selling RADEON 8500 boards with 250/250 processors in retail. Is this true?

A4: No. The only RADEON 8500 board that ATI is selling into retail is an ATI-branded 275/275-configured product that comes packaged in a distinctive ATI gift box, marked "Built By ATI."

However, ATI is selling RADEON 8500-based chips to its OEM, ODM and AIB business partners in whatever configuration they deem appropriate for their customers. As a consequence, there are boards available from third parties (doesn't mean MADE by third parties) today with RADEON 8500-based chips of a 250/250 configuration. We will be making a related announcement about this in the next few days. Historically, ATI has always sold its chip and board products to OEMs in whatever configuration they required to either achieve a certain price point or reach a specific end-user customer market. Since June, when ATI began selling its chips to ODMs and AIBs, it has offered these business partners the same flexibility it affords OEMs.


I agree it's unclear, but it's still there... >>


It still does not excuse the fact that ATI earlier said that there would be no clock speed differences between the two cards (OEM and retail) which has caused all of this frustration in the first place.

 

[Sugadaddy]

<< <<<
Low class behavior... Give me a break!
<<<

You bet it is. Selling two different cards as one and the same is very low class behavior. Like it was said earlier, if ATI sold the cards as two different ones, that would be fine. But for those of us who purchase a OEM card thinking it's just a retail card w/o all the extra packaging, it's very dissapointing.

I went from a TNT2 card to my current Radeon 64MB DDR, which I am very pleased with. However, in my next upgrade, I'm going to stick with NVIDIA. Their cards perform better, have better drivers, and NVIDIA doesn't try and push this kind of marketing past consumers.

I think ATI makes great cards, and it's really sad that they overshadow this with poor drivers and poor marketing. I think most would agree that ATI would have a happy customer base if they fixed these issues, even if they didn't beat out NVIDIA in performance tests. >>




Lower clocked OEM video cards is not new, it's been like this for a long time. And you say nVidia is better? Let's look at the Geforce 2 for example (with clock speeds in parentheses):

Geforce 2 GTS (200/333) 32 or 64 MB
Geforce 2 Pro (200/400) 64 MB
Geforce 2 fake Pro, known as the GTS Pro and not officially recognized by nVidia (200/366) 32 or 64 MB
Geforce 2 Ultra (250/460) 64 MB
Geforce 2 Ti 400 (250/400) 64MB
Geforce 2 GTS-V, not an official nVidia product (175/286) 32 MB
Geforce 2 Pro450, made by Gainward and not an official nVidia product (200/450) 64 MB


That's 9 different cards if you count the ram... Now that's a mess!

 

[Sugadaddy]

<< It still does not excuse the fact that ATI earlier said that there would be no clock speed differences between the two cards (OEM and retail) which has caused all of this frustration in the first place. >>



Now that, I agree 100%. But that's not what we're debating...

 

[Leon]

Interview early in September

Question: Given the confusion at the release of the original Radeon regarding Retail vs. OEM clock speeds, can we expect similar differences with the release of the 8500? The key question being whether there will be a clear delineation between the Retail card clock speeds and the OEM clock speeds? [...]

John Challinor: At this writing, [the] RADEON will ship at 275/275 in retail and OEM


John B. Challinor
Director of Public Relations, ATi Corporation

Typical ATI bullsh!t folks

 

[NFS4]

<<

<< <<<
Low class behavior... Give me a break!
<<<

You bet it is. Selling two different cards as one and the same is very low class behavior. Like it was said earlier, if ATI sold the cards as two different ones, that would be fine. But for those of us who purchase a OEM card thinking it's just a retail card w/o all the extra packaging, it's very dissapointing.

I went from a TNT2 card to my current Radeon 64MB DDR, which I am very pleased with. However, in my next upgrade, I'm going to stick with NVIDIA. Their cards perform better, have better drivers, and NVIDIA doesn't try and push this kind of marketing past consumers.

I think ATI makes great cards, and it's really sad that they overshadow this with poor drivers and poor marketing. I think most would agree that ATI would have a happy customer base if they fixed these issues, even if they didn't beat out NVIDIA in performance tests. >>




Lower clocked OEM video cards is not new, it's been like this for a long time. And you say nVidia is better? Let's look at the Geforce 2 for example (with clock speeds in parentheses):

Geforce 2 GTS (200/333) 32 or 64 MB
Geforce 2 Pro (200/400) 64 MB
Geforce 2 fake Pro, known as the GTS Pro and not officially recognized by nVidia (200/366) 32 or 64 MB
Geforce 2 Ultra (250/460) 64 MB
Geforce 2 Ti 400 (250/400) 64MB
Geforce 2 GTS-V, not an official nVidia product (175/286) 32 MB
Geforce 2 Pro450, made by Gainward and not an official nVidia product (200/450) 64 MB


That's 9 different cards if you count the ram... Now that's a mess! >>



I don't see what the problem is, the only official GeForce2 NVIDIA chips are the:

GTS
Pro
Ultra
Ti 200
Go
Mx
MX200
MX400


But they are all CLEARLY labled as such and there is no despcrency. Remember, NVIDIA ONLY makes the chip. They don't make the card. What the board maker does is out of it's control. You don't see NVIDIA selling a GeForce2 Pro as an Ultra even though the clock speeds are different. They have two seperate names.

ATI should use 8500 for retail and 8200 for OEM to alleviate the problem since they are obviously clocked at different speeds.

 

[Sugadaddy]

<< Interview early in September

Question: Given the confusion at the release of the original Radeon regarding Retail vs. OEM clock speeds, can we expect similar differences with the release of the 8500? The key question being whether there will be a clear delineation between the Retail card clock speeds and the OEM clock speeds? [...]

John Challinor: At this writing, [the] RADEON will ship at 275/275 in retail and OEM


John B. Challinor
Director of Public Relations, ATi Corporation

Typical ATI bullsh!t folks >>