Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School

[shrumpage]

link
http://www.reuters.com/printer...ws&storyID=6911883

By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.

Phyllis Vogel, assistant superintendent for Cupertino Unified School District, said the lawsuit had been forwarded to a staff attorney. She declined to comment further.

Williams asserts in the lawsuit that since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.

Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."

"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a California atheist who wanted the words "under God" struck from the Pledge of Allegiance as recited by school children. The appeals court in California had found that the phrase amounted to a violation of church and state separation.

comments?

 

[jhu]

let us also ban reading since that seems to be the root cause of all problems.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
link
http://www.reuters.com/printer...ws&storyID=6911883

By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.

Phyllis Vogel, assistant superintendent for Cupertino Unified School District, said the lawsuit had been forwarded to a staff attorney. She declined to comment further.

Williams asserts in the lawsuit that since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.

Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."

"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a California atheist who wanted the words "under God" struck from the Pledge of Allegiance as recited by school children. The appeals court in California had found that the phrase amounted to a violation of church and state separation.

comments?

I think the Prinicipal needs to get his head on straight. Also when the majority of Americans are Christian which includes most teachers, how can this teacher feel he is being singled out because he is a Christian? Martyr Complex?

 

[datalink7]

Wow, that is retarded. This has nothing to do with seperation of Church and State. It is an important historical document.

 

[TuxDave]

Maybe there's something more to this teacher. If only we could get a copy of the lesson plan to see if this 5th grade teacher is a nut-job and deserves to have all of his lessons censored

 

[SuperTool]

Looks like the teacher has his own agenda. It seems to me that he is specifically picking document that highlight the religion to promote his own rightwing agenda. I don't buy for a second that it's a coincidence. I would like to see the full list of documents he is presenting. If he is assigning reading that happens to mention religion, that's one thing. If he is picking documents because they mention religion, that's another thing. There is a large Asian immigrant community in Cupertino, many of them not interested in having religion shoved down their kids' throats.
This is a very good school district, and people pay a lot of money to live in Cupertino to send their kids there.

 

[ReiAyanami]

He should be forced to teach cookie cutter lessons on how filling in bubbles with #2 pencils is the way to succeed. That way no children will be left behind.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Displaying the commandments, teaching creationism, or having prayer in school is one thing. This move is just retarded...

 

[sandorski]

Ya, I think there's more to this story than the Declaration of Independence(which makes a very vague reference that would be difficult to pin as "Religious"). From what the Teacher has said he souunds like one of these revisionists who think the Founding Fathers had specifically designed the US as a "Christian" country and intended the US to be Christian.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Looks like the teacher has his own agenda. It seems to me that he is specifically picking document that highlight the religion to promote his own rightwing agenda. I don't buy for a second that it's a coincidence. I would like to see the full list of documents he is presenting. If he is assigning reading that happens to mention religion, that's one thing. If he is picking documents because they mention religion, that's another thing. There is a large Asian immigrant community in Cupertino, many of them not interested in having religion shoved down their kids' throats.
This is a very good school district, and people pay a lot of money to live in Cupertino to send their kids there.

Yeah, that EVAL right-wing Declaration of Independence....

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

CsG

 

[EagleKeeper]

There is probably more to this than what is published.

The school can not comment.

The teacher is suing for discrimination based on religion. I would suspect that he has previously done something to put him under the microscope and it is chafing him.

 

[Infohawk]

Sounds like the teacher was using certain documents to push his fundy views... School was perhaps trying to direct the fundy nut in a more appropriate direction without firing him.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Looks like the teacher has his own agenda. It seems to me that he is specifically picking document that highlight the religion to promote his own rightwing agenda. I don't buy for a second that it's a coincidence. I would like to see the full list of documents he is presenting. If he is assigning reading that happens to mention religion, that's one thing. If he is picking documents because they mention religion, that's another thing. There is a large Asian immigrant community in Cupertino, many of them not interested in having religion shoved down their kids' throats.
This is a very good school district, and people pay a lot of money to live in Cupertino to send their kids there.

Yeah, that EVAL right-wing Declaration of Independence....

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

CsG

Nobody is stopping from exercising his religion. At his leisure. But when he is at work, the school district pays him money, so he better pay attention to what his employer wants him to teach. And I want to see it in contest. I have nothing agianst works that mention God if they are picked for their relevance to teaching US government, but I do have something against a teacher specifically going out to look for works that do. Just like I would if a teacher picked out works that support or justify slavery for example.

 

[Panthro]

Originally posted by: jhu
let us also ban reading since that seems to be the root cause of all problems.

Why ban when you can burn just like 1940's Germany.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Looks like the teacher has his own agenda. It seems to me that he is specifically picking document that highlight the religion to promote his own rightwing agenda. I don't buy for a second that it's a coincidence. I would like to see the full list of documents he is presenting. If he is assigning reading that happens to mention religion, that's one thing. If he is picking documents because they mention religion, that's another thing. There is a large Asian immigrant community in Cupertino, many of them not interested in having religion shoved down their kids' throats.
This is a very good school district, and people pay a lot of money to live in Cupertino to send their kids there.

Yeah, that EVAL right-wing Declaration of Independence....

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

CsG

Nobody is stopping from exercising his religion. At his leisure. But when he is at work, the school district pays him money, so he better pay attention to what his employer wants him to teach. And I want to see it in contest. I have nothing agianst works that mention God if they are picked for their relevance to teaching US government, but I do have something against a teacher specifically going out to look for works that do. Just like I would if a teacher picked out works that support or justify slavery for example.

One question: Is the Declaration of Independence an important historical document that should be part of required education for PUBLIC SCHOOL (ie., funded by the government whose existence stems from that same document)?

Is history now "right wing"? :roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

CsG

The 1st Amendment is very clear that it is both Freedom of and from Religion. But, in context of the times in which it was written, "from" only in the basis that no one could be required by law to join a particular relgion or be forced to pay tithes via taxes to a particular religion. Prior to the Revolution, every colony but Rhode Island collected a tithing tax for their respective state religion, and actual freedom of religion was very limited (Depending on the colony, Jews might or might not be tolerated, but Catholics and Unitarians rarely were). That there would be no state church was a very disputed issue to the Founding Fathers, and many pushed for it, but in the end it probably only went through because the colonies would never have been able to agree on a particular, single church.

If what is happening here is as the teacher described, then I would say that district's actions are disgusting, but I have a very strong feeling that there is much more going on here that what we are being told. For example, he might be teaching his student that certain Founding Fathers believed in ways that they did not. For example, many of the more prominent of them were not Christians, but Deists.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Looks like the teacher has his own agenda. It seems to me that he is specifically picking document that highlight the religion to promote his own rightwing agenda. I don't buy for a second that it's a coincidence. I would like to see the full list of documents he is presenting. If he is assigning reading that happens to mention religion, that's one thing. If he is picking documents because they mention religion, that's another thing. There is a large Asian immigrant community in Cupertino, many of them not interested in having religion shoved down their kids' throats.
This is a very good school district, and people pay a lot of money to live in Cupertino to send their kids there.

Yeah, that EVAL right-wing Declaration of Independence....

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

CsG

Nobody is stopping from exercising his religion. At his leisure. But when he is at work, the school district pays him money, so he better pay attention to what his employer wants him to teach. And I want to see it in contest. I have nothing agianst works that mention God if they are picked for their relevance to teaching US government, but I do have something against a teacher specifically going out to look for works that do. Just like I would if a teacher picked out works that support or justify slavery for example.

One question: Is the Declaration of Independence an important historical document that should be part of required education for PUBLIC SCHOOL (ie., funded by the government whose existence stems from that same document)?

Is history now "right wing"? :roll:

Yes, it should be required education. And I am sure if it was just it, we wouldn't be talking about this. The guy had to be a bit God heavy in his historic document selection. I wonder if he included the Treaty with Tripoli, unanimously approved by the US senate in 1797, or was it conveniently skipped.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion ; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Looks like the teacher has his own agenda. It seems to me that he is specifically picking document that highlight the religion to promote his own rightwing agenda. I don't buy for a second that it's a coincidence. I would like to see the full list of documents he is presenting. If he is assigning reading that happens to mention religion, that's one thing. If he is picking documents because they mention religion, that's another thing. There is a large Asian immigrant community in Cupertino, many of them not interested in having religion shoved down their kids' throats.
This is a very good school district, and people pay a lot of money to live in Cupertino to send their kids there.

Yeah, that EVAL right-wing Declaration of Independence....

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

CsG

Nobody is stopping from exercising his religion. At his leisure. But when he is at work, the school district pays him money, so he better pay attention to what his employer wants him to teach. And I want to see it in contest. I have nothing agianst works that mention God if they are picked for their relevance to teaching US government, but I do have something against a teacher specifically going out to look for works that do. Just like I would if a teacher picked out works that support or justify slavery for example.

One question: Is the Declaration of Independence an important historical document that should be part of required education for PUBLIC SCHOOL (ie., funded by the government whose existence stems from that same document)?

Is history now "right wing"? :roll:

I agree entirely. Assuming everything is exactly the way the article portrayed, then it seems to be unreasonable. However, if the teacher is focusing and emphasizing on the religious portions such that it becomes more of a religion class than a history class, then I agree that the principal needs to review all lesson plans that's contains documents regarding religion to make sure the teacher is doing his job correctly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
One question: Is the Declaration of Independence an important historical document that should be part of required education for PUBLIC SCHOOL (ie., funded by the government whose existence stems from that same document)?

Is history now "right wing"? :roll:

I seriously doubt that is the case here. You really should read the entire article. And probably the DoI too. For example, the Christian God is not mentioned once in the DoI. Instead, the words "Nature's God" and "Creator" were substituted. This is appropriate in the context that Jefferson, the author, was a Deist. If, as I suspect, this teacher is using the DoI and his classroom as a pulpit to preach that Jefferson was a Christian, and/or that Jefferson shared certain Christian views with the teacher, then I believe he is wrong simply because he is, well... historically wrong. And inappropriate. The time for children to learn religion and God is with their families and the church of their families' choice. Not in a public school, and not the church of the teacher's choice.
It is not the teacher's freedom of religion to teach his individual religious views to our children in a publicly-funded school. There is a time and place for everything and this is neither.


edit: Notice how the article says that only this individual teacher is barred from teaching the DoI, and not every teacher in the school or district. This is your first clue that the problem probably lies with the individual teacher, and not the teaching of the document itself.

 

[AFB]

Originally posted by: datalink7
Wow, that is retarded. This has nothing to do with seperation of Church and State. It is an important historical document.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Is history now "right wing"? :roll:

Of course not, only when they spin it with religious garbage. Cheers.

 

[Infohawk]

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

Freedom of Religion includes Freedom from Religion and it is mandated that the state not push down religious garbage down people's throats.

 

[AFB]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Just another example of people thinking Freedom of Religion = Freedom from Religion. Disgusting...

Freedom of Religion includes Freedom from Religion and it is mandated that the state not push down religious garbage down people's throats.

but, but,...


BUSH HAS A MANDATE FROM THE PEOPLE!!!!!11@!!!!

 

[Kadarin]

I am not religious by any means, but I have no problem with references to religion in schools, so long as they do not advocate the childrens' belief in the given religion. Religion is a part of human culture; denying its existence is silly. But neither schools nor the government should be involved in the process of advancing any religion on anyone.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
link
http://www.reuters.com/printer...ws&storyID=6911883

By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence....

comments?

On the surface, it's ridiculous; Of course the Declaration of Independence belongs in any history course.

But it seems the lawyer is hinting at something here:

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

I'd be interested to see what parent complaint or whatever led to his methods being questioned...or even the complete list of documents the principal barred him from referencing.

Still, I have seen plenty of Bay Area high schools and cities do some ridiculous things so I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's nothing more than meets the eye.