Deciding between S754 A64 processors

[Goi]

Hi guys...

I'll be going back to grad school this fall, and will be fixing up a new system. While I have a general idea of what I want, I'm trying to get the specifics worked out so that I can hopefully get the best deal and the "right" system.

I know I want an A64, and I really want the S939 ones, but the cost of those are prohibitively high, so I'm thinking of settling for either a S754 3200+ or 3400+. I will be overclocking, and so I'm wondering if the Newcastle or Clawhammers are better? My general impression is that the Clawhammers, with their 1MB cache, will fare better, but I wanna be sure, but those are getting harder and harder to find. AT's realtime pricing engine isn't really accurate, since several vendors such as ZipZoomfly/Monarch are showing Newcastles when I click on AT's Clawhammer links in the realtime pricing engine.

The motherboard used will probably be the Chaintech VNF3-250 since those are so darn cheap and perform just like any other nf3-250 board, unless someone has something to say about it that I don't know about?

TIA!

 

[alexruiz]

Clawhammer. Clock speed matter more than cache, but you can always compensate some clock spee You can't add more cache.


Alex

 

[JBT]

If going for Max OC and you sure they are both CG revisions go for the the clawhammer.

 

[Goi]

Thanks for the replies. I thought so too about the clawhammers. As for the CG revisions, yeah I've read/heard that those are the best overclockers, but online vendors don't really indicate what steppings they're selling. Heck, I'm lucky if I can even tell if they're Clawhammers or Newcastles. Many don't even list the amount of L2 cache!

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Goi
Thanks for the replies. I thought so too about the clawhammers. As for the CG revisions, yeah I've read/heard that those are the best overclockers, but online vendors don't really indicate what steppings they're selling. Heck, I'm lucky if I can even tell if they're Clawhammers or Newcastles. Many don't even list the amount of L2 cache!

From what I understand, any CPU with 512k cache is a Newcastle..any A64 with 1MB cache is a ClawHammer

I hav a Newcastle because I thought having the extra 200MHz would be better.. since it's the same cache as I had on my Barton.. I figured all good I heard having less cache can help overclocking also.. Newcastle is better for OCing from what I understand.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: CraigRT

Originally posted by: Goi
Thanks for the replies. I thought so too about the clawhammers. As for the CG revisions, yeah I've read/heard that those are the best overclockers, but online vendors don't really indicate what steppings they're selling. Heck, I'm lucky if I can even tell if they're Clawhammers or Newcastles. Many don't even list the amount of L2 cache!

From what I understand, any CPU with 512k cache is a Newcastle..any A64 with 1MB cache is a ClawHammer

I hav a Newcastle because I thought having the extra 200MHz would be better.. since it's the same cache as I had on my Barton.. I figured all good I heard having less cache can help overclocking also.. Newcastle is better for OCing from what I understand.

I agree. Also, the higher newcastle multiplier with a good HTT clock can really help overall.

 

[Goi]

Wow, conflicting opinions! I was under the impression that CG stepping Clawhammers are the best performers and best overclockers? Anyway, I do know that the 512KB processors are Newcastles and the 1MB ones are Clawhammers. What I was pointing out was the difficulty in telling which one a CPU is from an online vendor since they often don't even state how much cache the CPU has.

 

[Ariste]

Well, if you plan on overclocking, I would definitely go with a 3200+ Clawhammer. All socket 754 Athlon 64 CG Revisions will overclock to about the same speed (2.5-2.6GHz on air), so if you have the Clawhammer you will have the same speed as a newcastle with an extra 512KB of L2 Cache.

The problem I have run into when looking for a Clawhammer, though, is that it is very tough to find a CG stepping. I can find plenty of CG stepping Newcastles, but all the Clawhammers I have run into have been C0. You can tell which stepping it is by the model number. If it has an AX or an AR in it, it's a CG stepping. If it has an AP, it's a C0 stepping. For example,

This is an Athlon 64 3200+ with the Newcastle core and a CG stepping. Notice the model number:

ADA3200AXBOX.

You can tell it is a CG stepping because of the AX. Now look at this proecssor:

This is an Athlon 64 3200+ with the Clawhammer core, but it has a C0 stepping. Again, look at the model number:

ADA3200AEP5AP

You can tell it's a C0 stepping because of the AP.

So, if you can find a CG stepping Clawhammer, that would definitely be the way to go. Hell, if you actually manage to find one, let me know, cause I've been looking for one But if you can't, I would go with a 3200+ Newcastle. Either way, you will end up with a great processor.

Good luck,

 

[formulav8]

The Newcastle 2ghz 3000+ cpu that I have is the C0 Steppping I can only get it to about 2.3ghz and it be fairly stable. It just runs way to hot at that speed. Even at stock it runs around 51-52C. It is using the retail hsf though. Oh well, it is plenty fast at the stock 2ghz speed.


Jason

 

[Goi]

Ariste, so you're saying that a Newcastle 3200+ CG stepping would be a better choice than a Clawhammer 3200+ C0 stepping once both are overclocked?

Hmm, in any case it's gonna be tough telling if it's a C0 or CG stepping since most online vendors don't list the product code.

 

[Ariste]

Originally posted by: Goi
Ariste, so you're saying that a Newcastle 3200+ CG stepping would be a better choice than a Clawhammer 3200+ C0 stepping once both are overclocked?

Hmm, in any case it's gonna be tough telling if it's a C0 or CG stepping since most online vendors don't list the product code.

Yep. Just look at formulav8's example. He could only overclock his C0 stepping to 2.3 GHz, and it was running very hot. You would most likely be able to get a CG Stepping to around 2.5-2.6GHz at reasonable temperatures. I've also heard of C0 steppings that people have only been able to overclock around 100-200MHz. I think it's just a much safer bet going with a CG stepping, even if you have to settle for a Newcastle.

 

[Bar81]

exactly

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Ariste

Originally posted by: Goi
Ariste, so you're saying that a Newcastle 3200+ CG stepping would be a better choice than a Clawhammer 3200+ C0 stepping once both are overclocked?

Hmm, in any case it's gonna be tough telling if it's a C0 or CG stepping since most online vendors don't list the product code.

Yep. Just look at formulav8's example. He could only overclock his C0 stepping to 2.3 GHz, and it was running very hot. You would most likely be able to get a CG Stepping to around 2.5-2.6GHz at reasonable temperatures. I've also heard of C0 steppings that people have only been able to overclock around 100-200MHz. I think it's just a much safer bet going with a CG stepping, even if you have to settle for a Newcastle.

hey now, there is no "settling" when going with a newcastle.. i purposely went with the newcastle because i wanted a higher clock speed for less money than the clawhammer... its a great CPU, and i don't thin there is any major difference in having the extra cache.. if they were the same price might have been tougher, but the 3200+ NC is less money..