Debunking the Palin Myths - redux

[yuppiejr]

Since the other thread was locked (lack of comment on the article in the OP's post) linking an otherwise interesting CNN article about the Palin attacks I will present the same article with my own comments in a new AT P&N legal formatted thread....

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI.../beck.palin/index.html

Yes, Glen Beck is a conservative - we get that, but lets talk about the content of the article rather than Beck bashing without even looking at the article this time around, shall we?

"Every once in a while, I get a call on my radio show from someone telling me that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim, who admitted it in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, and has a fake birth certificate. No, no, and no. As I tell them, there are legitimate reasons not to vote for Barack Obama, no need to make them up."

Right out of the gate a fair admission that people on the right fall for stupid smear bullet points about Obama just like the lefties doing the hit job on Sarah Palin and her family.

.. The rest of the article does a good job derailing a lot of the smear garbage you can find spewed around here with a quick keyword search for 'Palin'.

"Sarah Palin believes God told her to go to war with Iraq!"

There has been some hard-core journalistic malpractice on this one. The Associated Press ran this headline about a speech she gave at her church: "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'"

In the story, they omit the first part of the sentence they're quoting along with the entire previous sentence for good measure.
Don't Miss

Here are her actual words: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

Palin is clearly praying that we're doing the right thing in Iraq, something sensible for an introspective woman of faith concerned about the lives of our troops to do. She's not saying that she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles. Sorry to disappoint you.

And for those of you who think politicians asking God for guidance is offensive, might I remind you of this famous politician's prayer:

"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama


"She has no experience!"

It's fair to assume that Barack Obama believed he was qualified to be in the White House when he announced he was running for president. At that point, he had been a U.S. Senator for 767 days. When Sarah Palin was announced as a vice presidential candidate, she had been the governor of Alaska for 634 days.

While I'm sure those extra 133 days were filled with personal discovery, I can't imagine anyone seriously trying to make the case that Obama is experienced and Palin isn't.

Unless, of course, you're Matt Damon, who said a Palin presidency would be a really "scary thing" because she has been "governor of Alaska for...for less than two years!" (Damon originally expressed his presidential preference for Obama in December 2006, when he had been a senator for less than two years.)

More importantly, Palin's career has been filled with executive experience. She's the only one of the four in this race who has run a business, town, and/or state (a state that gives her crucial energy experience in the middle of an energy crisis).

When Obama's campaign complains that Palin would be one heartbeat away from the presidency, they should consider that their candidate would be zero heartbeats away.


"But Obama is running a huge campaign -- Palin was just a small town mayor!"

Believe it or not, this one was actually trotted out by Obama himself.

"My understanding is, is that Gov. Palin's town of Wasilla has, I think, 50 employees. We've got 2,500 in this campaign. I think the budget is maybe $12 million a year. We have a budget of about three times that just for the month."

Apparently, Barack missed that she's become the governor of Alaska in the interim. Why would he compare his current duties with her former duties?

Well, since he announced his candidacy, Barack Obama has raised about $22 million a month. That's a large organization for sure, unless you are directly comparing it to Sarah Palin, who is handling state revenues that are about 61 times as large, or more than $1.3 billion per month.


"Palin only supports abstinence to be taught in sex-ed!"

This claim is usually followed by a super classy comment about her daughter and the use of contraception, but the premise is false. Palin hasn't said she doesn't want condoms discussed in sex-ed, calling their discussion "relatively benign."

"I'm pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I am not anti-contraception. But, yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don't have a problem with that," Palin said. Hers is hardly an extreme point of view in America today.


"If she cares about children with special needs, then why did she cut spending on them by 62 percent?"

Actually, Palin almost tripled their funding in only three years from $26,900 per student to $73,840 per student.

Incidentally, the amount of government money you spend on a specific group doesn't equal the amount you care for that group, but that's another story for another column.

All of these represent just a small percentage of the bizarre collection of claims being thrown at Palin by her opponents and some in the media -- who are desperately hoping something will stick. I leave you with my favorite so far: The Internet rumors that she harbors racism against Eskimos. If true, she sure has a strange way of expressing it -- her husband, Todd, is half Yupik Inuit Eskimo.

To balance that out, she must really love his other half.

.. Lets be crystal clear about this, it is obvious that a group or groups is targeting Sarah Palin and doing their best to dig up any scrap of mud that might stick and incite the dumbest in their party to go forth and spew this trash all over the internet. Some folks here have done a wonderful job regurgitating these facts with little or no concrete support. To some extent I would say a pass is in order based on some of the BHO smears early in the campaign but it is my observation based on the continuing slide for the D ticket in this election that perhaps they have gone too far?

Have the leftists overstepped themselves and managed to drive people away from their own cause with this smear campaign that seems to have taken on a life of it's own outside of the Obama campaign's control? The poll numbers and reported distancing of Democrats in congress from the Obama campaign seems to indicate a crack in the veneer. Discuss...

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Let me simplify the first one for you:
Here are her actual words: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

Palin is clearly praying that we're doing the right thing in Iraq, something sensible for an introspective woman of faith concerned about the lives of our troops to do. She's not saying that she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles. Sorry to disappoint you.

And for those of you who think politicians asking God for guidance is offensive, might I remind you of this famous politician's prayer:

"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama


Palin is PRESUMING to know what god wants, whereas Barack asks only to be a vessel and let god decide what his will is.
It's really simple. She's not asking if what she's doing is right, she's presuming to know god's will. How can you not see the difference?
Example 1)Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right - Here she is clearly stating that they are doing what's right, not asking that if what they are doing is right or god's will.

Example 2) Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God - again, palin is presuming to know god's checklist of things to do

Example 3) That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." - do I even have to say it a 3rd time?

She's far too involved in her religion to NOT let it influence, interfere and dictate her position, which it clearly should. If she's a representative of the people it's all people not just christians.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
Let me simplify the first one for you:
Here are her actual words: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

Palin is clearly praying that we're doing the right thing in Iraq, something sensible for an introspective woman of faith concerned about the lives of our troops to do. She's not saying that she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles. Sorry to disappoint you.

And for those of you who think politicians asking God for guidance is offensive, might I remind you of this famous politician's prayer:

"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama


Palin is PRESUMING to know what god wants, whereas Barack asks only to be a vessel and let god decide what his will is.
It's really simple. She's not asking if what she's doing is right, she's presuming to know god's will. How can you not see the difference?
Example 1)Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right - Here she is clearly stating that they are doing what's right, not asking that if what they are doing is right or god's will.

Example 2) Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God - again, palin is presuming to know god's checklist of things to do

Example 3) That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." - do I even have to say it a 3rd time?

She's far too involved in her religion to NOT let it influence, interfere and dictate her position, which it clearly should. If she's a representative of the people it's all people not just christians.

Didn't we have a similar debate over Barak Obama and the Reverend Wright? If you are going to really lean into this woman's religion and it's influence over her public life you open the door for the same scrutiny of all candidates in this race. Wasn't this topic "off limits" for the Obama folks, do we want to go down that road again?

 

[syzygy]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr


Have the leftists overstepped themselves and managed to drive people away from their own cause with this smear campaign that seems to have taken on a life of it's own outside of the Obama campaign's control?

its not so much that they are leftists as they are ideologues. you will find them all along the political spectrum.

sarah palin's greatest crime is that she has reinvigorated the repubs with youth, charisma, outsider credentials, and has won success on fronts that have been traditional liberal stomping grounds. She is a successful mother of five with major public achievements yet she champions faith, opposes abortion, and trumps other left-of-center values.

She is perhaps viewed as having taken advantage of the inroads built by the other side without paying them much complement in her political stands.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
Example 1)Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right - Here she is clearly stating that they are doing what's right, not asking that if what they are doing is right or god's will.

Example 2) Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God - again, palin is presuming to know god's checklist of things to do

Example 3) That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." - do I even have to say it a 3rd time?

She's far too involved in her religion to NOT let it influence, interfere and dictate her position, which it clearly should. If she's a representative of the people it's all people not just christians.

The number of people today who cannot parse a sentence is simply astounding.

1) "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right" - Nowhere does it say that they are doing what is right, only that they are trying to do so. Likewise, nowhere is it said that what they are being ordered to do is what is right. This can just as easily be taken as saying that we should pray for our soldiers who are struggling to do what they believe is the right thing, which may involve acting against orders.

2) "Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God" - Pray that they are being sent on a task that is from God. This most emphatically does not claim that the current task is from God, rather it is asking for prayer that the task is changed to one that is from God, regardless of what that task might be. There is also no implication of knowing what that changed task might be.

3) "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan." - Again, she does not say that the current plan is God's plan. She does not say that she knows what God's plan is. She says only that she believes we should pray that we are using His plan and not ours.

Now, personally, I do not believe in using God as a general and I am wary of anyone who claims to know "God's plan". I am wary of Palin for numerous reasons, but to claim that she believes the current plan in Iraq is "God's plan" is simply not supported by the quote above.

ZV

 

[Stuxnet]

My interpretation of Palin's "God reference" is that she simply hopes we're on the right path, and not doing more harm than good. It's my opinion that anyone looking any deeper than that is simply looking for a bone to pick.

BTW, props to the OP for "following the rules" better than I

I gave up on it long before it got locked, though, simply because people are so passionate about their beliefs that, when they see "Glenn Beck", they stop thinking and go into rabid attack dog mode.

It's really quite sad when you think about it, because there's a lot of potential for good discussion, but you need rational, clear thinking adults for that. Unfortunately, this forum is severely lacking that.

 

[theeedude]

Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

This whole qualification debate is growing stale. BHO lacks any kind of executive experience. Get over it.

 

[jonks]

Main difference: the 'smears' being discreditted against Palin are almost entirely made by lefty bloggers, not the Obama campaign.

Yet fact checking cites debunking smears aimed at Obama are mostly originating from the McCain campaign, in heavily run ads, like the kindergarten sex ed ads and the fake offense lipstick comments.

McCain tries to impute these attacks as coming from Obama, and even used a factcheck.org article out of context so badly that factcheck felt the need to clarify what they said, lest people think the McCain ad actually had some credibility. From the article released 9/10: "We have yet to dispute any claim from the Obama campaign about Palin."

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

This whole qualification debate is growing stale. BHO lacks any kind of executive experience. Get over it.

It is getting stale on both sides of the fence if you ask me. The key now is potential to lead our people and our government which I support.

You can't really blame the Dems for jumping on it though. McCain has latched on to that argument against Obama like a pit bull for months on end.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

A senile Reagan ran a better country than Carter... sometimes I think senility is just what this country needs!

I know I'm just inviting venom with this, but for the record, Obama and Palin are equally qualified to run the country in terms of experience. Arguing the two sides of the election on the grounds of experience is futile and entirely subjective. Neither party should be arguing against the other on these terms. It's hypocritical and ignorant.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

This whole qualification debate is growing stale. BHO lacks any kind of executive experience. Get over it.

He has the mental capacity to lead, Palin does not. Nor does she have the ethical capacity, seeing how she's still lying about the bridge to nowhere.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

A senile Reagan ran a better country than Carter... sometimes I think senility is just what this country needs!

I know I'm just inviting venom with this, but for the record, Obama and Palin are equally qualified to run the country in terms of experience. Arguing the two sides of the election on the grounds of experience is futile and entirely subjective. Neither party should be arguing against the other on these terms. It's hypocritical and ignorant.

Do you trust Palin to be the leader of the free world?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

I was reading that when Palin became mayor of the town of 5,000, her witch hunts like the librarian she had to reverse when people came to the defense of the librarian, generated a recall movement that forced Palin to accept an administrator that actually did most of the running of the city.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

A senile Reagan ran a better country than Carter... sometimes I think senility is just what this country needs!

I know I'm just inviting venom with this, but for the record, Obama and Palin are equally qualified to run the country in terms of experience. Arguing the two sides of the election on the grounds of experience is futile and entirely subjective. Neither party should be arguing against the other on these terms. It's hypocritical and ignorant.

Do you trust Palin to be the leader of the free world?

I sure do. In a time when when everyone is ready for a new era, a lack of relative experience - whether it be Palin or Obama - is not frightening to me. It would be difficult to fuck things up more than Bush did, and we're still a sovereign 50 states. I say shake it up.

As for her "mental/ethical capacity" that you cited in the previous post: :roll:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

This whole qualification debate is growing stale. BHO lacks any kind of executive experience. Get over it.

He has the mental capacity to lead, Palin does not. Nor does she have the ethical capacity, seeing how she's still lying about the bridge to nowhere.

Do yo uhave medical proof she lacks the mental capacity to lead? If not what you just stated were two subjective words to describe a VP candidate. And neither gives you proof of anything.

All candidates exxagerate and lie for their own benefits. It is what politicians do.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

I was reading that when Palin became mayor of the town of 5,000, her witch hunts like the librarian she had to reverse when people came to the defense of the librarian, generated a recall movement that forced Palin to accept an administrator that actually did most of the running of the city.

Which is of course why she was later re-elected with more than 75% of the vote.

The administrator rumor is false.

ZV

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: jonks
Main difference: the 'smears' being discreditted against Palin are almost entirely made by lefty bloggers, not the Obama campaign.

Yet fact checking cites debunking smears aimed at Obama are mostly originating from the McCain campaign, in heavily run ads, like the kindergarten sex ed ads and the fake offense lipstick comments.

McCain tries to impute these attacks as coming from Obama, and even used a factcheck.org article out of context so badly that factcheck felt the need to clarify what they said, lest people think the McCain ad actually had some credibility. From the article released 9/10: "We have yet to dispute any claim from the Obama campaign about Palin."

It's an election, there is mud slinging on both sides - deal with it. The left and right wing bloggers may not directly represent the official lines from either side but I don't see them being publicly condemned by their respective candidates either. It's just a part of the modern political landscape, both sides are pretty much doing the same thing like it or not.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

I was reading that when Palin became mayor of the town of 5,000, her witch hunts like the librarian she had to reverse when people came to the defense of the librarian, generated a recall movement that forced Palin to accept an administrator that actually did most of the running of the city.

Fascinating, care to back that up with a reliable source or are you just spouting the usual garbage?

I heard Obama was being investigated by the IRS for tax evasion related to winnings from some online gambling sites he frequented.

When in doubt, make shit up, right?

 

[heyheybooboo]

It always amazes me when the Contards throw out a strawman and debunk it - and people waste their time arguing with them about it.

Sarah Palin is a religious twit who runs a state that is 50 years behind times. John McSame is a flip-flopping pandering prickly tool who sold his soul to the devil because of his political aspirations.

Only in America ... (shaking head in disgust)

 

[SP33Demon]

How did this drivel get unlocked?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: senseamp
Alaska is a government welfare petro-state. Running it does not qualify Palin to run this country in a very possible scenario of Grandpa McCain dying or going senile.

I was reading that when Palin became mayor of the town of 5,000, her witch hunts like the librarian she had to reverse when people came to the defense of the librarian, generated a recall movement that forced Palin to accept an administrator that actually did most of the running of the city.

Fascinating, care to back that up with a reliable source or are you just spouting the usual garbage?

I heard Obama was being investigated by the IRS for tax evasion related to winnings from some online gambling sites he frequented.

When in doubt, make shit up, right?

You're a jerk. In thousands of posts, I've not once 'made shit up', and defy you to show one time I did. You say a lot about your integrity though, with your projecting.

I considered doing some checking for a link for you, but you can do your own research for now because of your behavior. I really could hardly care less what you do.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: jonks
Main difference: the 'smears' being discreditted against Palin are almost entirely made by lefty bloggers, not the Obama campaign.

Yet fact checking cites debunking smears aimed at Obama are mostly originating from the McCain campaign, in heavily run ads, like the kindergarten sex ed ads and the fake offense lipstick comments.

McCain tries to impute these attacks as coming from Obama, and even used a factcheck.org article out of context so badly that factcheck felt the need to clarify what they said, lest people think the McCain ad actually had some credibility. From the article released 9/10: "We have yet to dispute any claim from the Obama campaign about Palin."

It's an election, there is mud slinging on both sides - deal with it. The left and right wing bloggers may not directly represent the official lines from either side but I don't see them being publicly condemned by their respective candidates either. It's just a part of the modern political landscape, both sides are pretty much doing the same thing like it or not.

There it is again, the old 'when your position is indefensible, slander the other side by saying 'both sides are guilty' line.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
It always amazes me when the Contards throw out a strawman and debunk it - and people waste their time arguing with them about it.

Sarah Palin is a religious twit who runs a state that is 50 years behind times. John McSame is a flip-flopping pandering prickly tool who sold his soul to the devil because of his political aspirations.

Only in America ... (shaking head in disgust)

John MCSAME? Sarah Palin believes in God? Pandering?

You've just changed my mind, sir!!

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
How did this drivel get unlocked?

By the mod callout offense being removed; there's no rule against drivel, as if that weren't obvious. Drivel it is, though.

Where's his 'debunking' of the 'bridge to nowhere' lie Palin told?

Where's his 'debunking' of Palin going along with the 'lipstick on a pig' lie involving her?

Where's his 'debunking' of her extremist views like challenging global warming?