Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Our Medicare liabilities are already in the tens of trillions for the coming century.

The question of reforming our system is a matter of "when", not "if". It will happen, but it is more likely than ever to happen right now while the Democrats dominate our Congress.

I predict some measure of health care reform will be passed before the end of the year.

And once more, even with all of the facts people supposedly have, no one can ever tell me how much it will end up costing the average person on a daily/weekly/monthly/etc. basis.
Will the average working middle income family have less money in their pocket if this is implemented?

 

[jpeyton]

Anybody have an anecdote (or twenty) about the lameness of the American health care system to share with Whoozyerdaddy?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Our Medicare liabilities are already in the tens of trillions for the coming century.

The question of reforming our system is a matter of "when", not "if". It will happen, but it is more likely than ever to happen right now while the Democrats dominate our Congress.

I predict some measure of health care reform will be passed before the end of the year.

And once more, even with all of the facts people supposedly have, no one can ever tell me how much it will end up costing the average person on a daily/weekly/monthly/etc. basis.
Will the average working middle income family have less money in their pocket if this is implemented?

depends

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Our Medicare liabilities are already in the tens of trillions for the coming century.

The question of reforming our system is a matter of "when", not "if". It will happen, but it is more likely than ever to happen right now while the Democrats dominate our Congress.

I predict some measure of health care reform will be passed before the end of the year.

And once more, even with all of the facts people supposedly have, no one can ever tell me how much it will end up costing the average person on a daily/weekly/monthly/etc. basis.
Will the average working middle income family have less money in their pocket if this is implemented?

depends

Of all the possible answers this is probably the best. 😛

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
This late in the thread nobody will care but I will describe my own first-hand observations about the Canadian healthcare system...

Some years ago (1990 to be exact... maybe things have improved but I'm guessing they haven't) a friend of mine had an accident while in Yellowknife, NWT.

She was dancing... sat down and dislocated her kneecap...

Ouch

Ambulance came and took her away... she got to the hospital at 12:15am... The Dr. on duty got off at midnight. The nurses called him but he was OFF... and he told them as much. Told them to give her Tylonol. Yay! Government employee!

The next Dr wasn't scheduled in until 6am. And when the nurses called, he told them that he was off until 6am. (Surprised he even answered the call)

So my friend sat there with a dislocated kneecap with nothing but Tylonol for the pain until the next Dr showed up for his 'shift' at 6am.

In a microcosm, this is my experience with socialized health care. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now.

In the end... when she left third world health care of Canada and made it back to the US (Alaska - the biggest joke in US health care) it was clear that her initial problem would have been taken care of quickly... the delay she experienced in Canuckistan caused her to suffer three additional surgeries that wouldn't have been needed had she just been treated when she showed up at the medical center.

So pardon me if I've seen those Canadian health care 'myths' up close and personal. They're not myths... they are real. The Canuckistan health care system sucks.

I'd rather worry about how to pay the bill than wait for something that I needed NOW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y..._Northwest_Territories

2006 population 18700. I doubt you'd get good health care in a small town in the middle of the American bumfuck either.

Lame.

I lived in Fairbanks Alaska most of my life... I live on Maui now (which makes health care in Fairbanks look like the Mayo Clinic) and I've never met anyone who had to wait all night because a government employed doctor refused to turn his car around 15 min after he got off shift... No, I'm pretty sure I've never heard that story.

But thanks for proving my point.

Equally lame. You're basing your opinion of an entire health care system on an experience with one doctor.

The former IT manager at my current employer did not do weekend support. If a system went down, even something as critical as email or file services, it wasn't going to get fixed until Monday whenever he strolled in. Are all IT managers like that?

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Link to where the conservatives were worried about costs when Bush decidered to invade Iraq?

The costs issue isn't a real point of debate. Its just another road block from the party of NO!!!. If Obama wanted to invade Iran and it would cost $10 trillion, conservatives wouldn't bat an eye and would happily approve 10 times that.

What in the hell are you talking about? I'm an individual asking how much it will cost me personally if this is implemented. Leave your partisan shit about Iraq out of this.

You phrased it "how much this is going to cost us". Us usually refers to the country, not the individual, in political debates. For individual costs, we'll have to see if your boys succeed in castrating the plan of its public option. Hopefully, individual costs for non participants will be limited to something like a tax on benefits.

And the fact that you responded so harshly to my war comment suggests that you're equally partisan. If you were a libertarian, you'd have responded that you'd find an Iran war equally wasteful.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody have an anecdote (or twenty) about the lameness of the American health care system to share with Whoozyerdaddy?

Sure.

I have two.

1) My wife cut her finger slicing vegetables. We go to the Promptcare Clinic. The waiting room isn't that busy. We sat there for 90 minutes and maybe one other person came in. Then we left. She now has a nice scar on her finger where maybe a timely stitch or two could have fixed it. They were very quick to take our copay but finally refunded it 6 weeks later.

Oh yeah, I worked for the parent hospital at the time, too.

2) When my wife was pregnant with our son, she had a level 2 ultrasound done because of some kidney abnormality detected on the normal US. She was referred to the clinic and we confirmed with the insurance co that the doctor and clinic were covered. She has the US done. They bill insurance and its rejected. I call insurance again. They say its all ok and rerun the claim. A few days later, rejected. Repeat 2 more times. Eventually I just paid the $400 that UnitedHealthCare said they were going to pay but never did. Awesome.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody have an anecdote (or twenty) about the lameness of the American health care system to share with Whoozyerdaddy?

Sure.

I have two.

1) My wife cut her finger slicing vegetables. We go to the Promptcare Clinic. The waiting room isn't that busy. We sat there for 90 minutes and maybe one other person came in. Then we left. She now has a nice scar on her finger where maybe a timely stitch or two could have fixed it. They were very quick to take our copay but finally refunded it 6 weeks later.

Oh yeah, I worked for the parent hospital at the time, too.

2) When my wife was pregnant with our son, she had a level 2 ultrasound done because of some kidney abnormality detected on the normal US. She was referred to the clinic and we confirmed with the insurance co that the doctor and clinic were covered. She has the US done. They bill insurance and its rejected. I call insurance again. They say its all ok and rerun the claim. A few days later, rejected. Repeat 2 more times. Eventually I just paid the $400 that UnitedHealthCare said they were going to pay but never did. Awesome.

With the medical records bill, and 15mil or so more people being covered by the government and no new medical workers, these things will become a thing of the past. Have hope, son.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody have an anecdote (or twenty) about the lameness of the American health care system to share with Whoozyerdaddy?

Sure.

I have two.

1) My wife cut her finger slicing vegetables. We go to the Promptcare Clinic. The waiting room isn't that busy. We sat there for 90 minutes and maybe one other person came in. Then we left. She now has a nice scar on her finger where maybe a timely stitch or two could have fixed it. They were very quick to take our copay but finally refunded it 6 weeks later.

Oh yeah, I worked for the parent hospital at the time, too.

2) When my wife was pregnant with our son, she had a level 2 ultrasound done because of some kidney abnormality detected on the normal US. She was referred to the clinic and we confirmed with the insurance co that the doctor and clinic were covered. She has the US done. They bill insurance and its rejected. I call insurance again. They say its all ok and rerun the claim. A few days later, rejected. Repeat 2 more times. Eventually I just paid the $400 that UnitedHealthCare said they were going to pay but never did. Awesome.

With the medical records bill, and 15mil or so more people being covered by the government and no new medical workers, these things will become a thing of the past. Have hope, son.

You missed the point. The whole point of this exercise is to show that American medicine isn't the paradise that some make it out to be. Dumb shit happens everywhere.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Pneumothorax

Originally posted by: TruePaige

If that were true depression would be virtually untreatable, as it is quite common to try many different meds in the same class of SSRI or NRI's to find an acceptable risk/reward ratio.

Maybe because Enbrel costs about $18,000 per year, while even the most expensive anti-depressants are still less than $1500 per year is maybe why the UK has decided to ration Enbrel and other RA drugs.

Effexor XR 150mg, 2x per day.

No generic.

$7/pill.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Link to where the conservatives were worried about costs when Bush decidered to invade Iraq?

The costs issue isn't a real point of debate. Its just another road block from the party of NO!!!. If Obama wanted to invade Iran and it would cost $10 trillion, conservatives wouldn't bat an eye and would happily approve 10 times that.

What in the hell are you talking about? I'm an individual asking how much it will cost me personally if this is implemented. Leave your partisan shit about Iraq out of this.

You phrased it "how much this is going to cost us". Us usually refers to the country, not the individual, in political debates. For individual costs, we'll have to see if your boys succeed in castrating the plan of its public option. Hopefully, individual costs for non participants will be limited to something like a tax on benefits.

And the fact that you responded so harshly to my war comment suggests that you're equally partisan. If you were a libertarian, you'd have responded that you'd find an Iran war equally wasteful.

I don't feel the need to categorize myself beneath any set of ideals. I doubt I would fit. Why the hell would I talk about iraq or iran in a discussion about uhc, you imbecile?
And if you bothered reading the entire post (see the beginning of the quotes) you would find a reference to the average middle income family where clearly 'us' would then refer back to that statement. Stop trying to weasle out of the point of the question... Unless you don't have the answer. And if you don't have the answer kindly keep your misguided partisan assessment to yourself.

 

[tgferg67]

Many disabling diseases take 4 or more years on average to diagnose(Lyme, Lupus, MS, FM ect..) The current U.S. system fails these people as they lose their jobs(because of symptoms) and then their insurance because they yet do not have a "diagnosis".

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Our Medicare liabilities are already in the tens of trillions for the coming century.

The question of reforming our system is a matter of "when", not "if". It will happen, but it is more likely than ever to happen right now while the Democrats dominate our Congress.

I predict some measure of health care reform will be passed before the end of the year.

And once more, even with all of the facts people supposedly have, no one can ever tell me how much it will end up costing the average person on a daily/weekly/monthly/etc. basis.
Will the average working middle income family have less money in their pocket if this is implemented?

No, probably not. They will quite likely have more. (or at least 10 years down the road they will have lost less than in our current system.) If this overhaul either leads to lower costs or slows the insane and unsustainable increase in health care costs, then it will have been a success.

 

[PokerGuy]

I see nothing "debunked" in the OP. I see more inane drivel and writing devoid of critical thought, trying to drum up support for socialist health care.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
I see nothing "debunked" in the OP. I see more inane drivel and writing devoid of critical thought, trying to drum up support for socialist health care.

Do you have anything to offer in support of our health insurance nightmare? Do you have any constructive criticism of the Canadian model and potential solutions for the problems?

 

[StageLeft]

Has anybody done a generic for or against a US public healthcare system and broken it down by demographic? If so I'd love to see it because my guess is that it would go something like this:

Highschool students: For
College students: For
New College grads (because their job still sucks): For
Poor deadbeats: For
Typical middle-class: on the fence
Upper class: against

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm still waiting to hear how much of a cost increase will be incurred by the average middle income family that already has employer provided insurance. Taxes will go up and theoretically pay will as well since the burden will be shifted from the employer to the government. At first glance I would imagine our tax burden will be a higher percentage (see myth 1) but if this is offset by a pay increase I guess it would equalize.

Except that magical pay increase won't happen for the average person. People are just happy to have jobs these days. Companies will just use the economy as an excuse and pocket that money.

UHC will end the middle class since they will have to pay for it. The poor don't pay taxes and the rich will find ways to avoid it. That and the democrats will let illegals have the same access as citizens. So anyone in south america with a serious illness comes over the fence and gets expenisve treatment for free. The system will either bankrupt its self in record time.

Link to where UHC ended the Middle Class in Europe, Japan, Canada, or Australia. Thanks.

And I'm still waiting on that link to how much this is going to cost us...

Our Medicare liabilities are already in the tens of trillions for the coming century.

The question of reforming our system is a matter of "when", not "if". It will happen, but it is more likely than ever to happen right now while the Democrats dominate our Congress.

I predict some measure of health care reform will be passed before the end of the year.

And once more, even with all of the facts people supposedly have, no one can ever tell me how much it will end up costing the average person on a daily/weekly/monthly/etc. basis.
Will the average working middle income family have less money in their pocket if this is implemented?

No, probably not. They will quite likely have more. (or at least 10 years down the road they will have lost less than in our current system.) If this overhaul either leads to lower costs or slows the insane and unsustainable increase in health care costs, then it will have been a success.

sure might reign in costs... to paraphrase a g. will op/ed from this a.m.: "...when the hospital's main costs were clean linen..." we can revert to a simpler time and model with none of the newfangled stuff that makes prices go up...

we also need to have a whole new system of hospices (ok, death houses) to cut the cost of those last weeks/months that are draining huge resources... they could be staffed at minimum wage by unemployeed people who are given military style medic training... bed and meds is all u get...

and any one on public care has a big DNR on their chart...

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody have an anecdote (or twenty) about the lameness of the American health care system to share with Whoozyerdaddy?

Sure.

My uninsured legal immigrant father in law fell asleep at the wheel and plowed side into another car. He was taken to Harborview in Seattle, one of the best trauma centers on the west coast.

He was kept in a medically-induced coma for three weeks, was in ICU for several more weeks, was in the hospital for about 6 months total and then released to a convalescent home for another 6 months (approximate) while he did rehab and learned to walk again. He had every benefit of the western world healthcare.

The financial aid counselors at the hospital helped sort through the medicare and medicaid, and helped guide my parents-in-law through bankruptcy. They continued to live in the same house they always have, their kids kicked in (as usual) for car, food, expenses, etc. My parents in law live very frugally, not relying on credit, and bankruptcy had zero affect on their lives other than the hassle of paperwork.

Lame, huh?

(Depends on your view, actually. I do consider this story rather lame, because they CHOSE not to pay for health insurance and therefore the cost wound up going to taxpayers.)

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody done a generic for or against a US public healthcare system and broken it down by demographic? If so I'd love to see it because my guess is that it would go something like this:

Highschool students: For
College students: For
New College grads (because their job still sucks): For
Poor deadbeats: For
Typical middle-class: on the fence
Upper class: against

I'll add:

Anyone who has had to deal with COBRA: for
Anyone who has a preexisting condition: for
Anyone who has ever been laid off for longer than a few months: for
Anyone self employed over the age of 50: for

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Phokus

I agree, lets keep the current system with 10-30 percent overhead. Why would i want a more efficient system like Canada's or even our own medicare with 1 percent overhead? I want private healthcare providers to pocket as much profit as possible.

medicare only has a 1 percent overhead if you're entirely dishonest about what counts as overhead.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody done a generic for or against a US public healthcare system and broken it down by demographic? If so I'd love to see it because my guess is that it would go something like this:

Highschool students: For
College students: For
New College grads (because their job still sucks): For
Poor deadbeats: For
Typical middle-class: on the fence
Upper class: against

I'll add:

Anyone who has had to deal with COBRA: for
Anyone who has a preexisting condition: for
Anyone who has ever been laid off for longer than a few months: for
Anyone self employed over the age of 50: for

I'll also add this one.

Anyone who switched ambulances between hospital networks: for

(Both were throwing bills and the insurance company kicked it back because the paperwork was inconsistent between the two)

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has anybody done a generic for or against a US public healthcare system and broken it down by demographic? If so I'd love to see it because my guess is that it would go something like this:

Highschool students: For
College students: For
New College grads (because their job still sucks): For
Poor deadbeats: For
Typical middle-class: on the fence
Upper class: against

I'll add:

Anyone who has had to deal with COBRA: for
Anyone who has a preexisting condition: for
Anyone who has ever been laid off for longer than a few months: for
Anyone self employed over the age of 50: for

I'll also add this one.

Anyone who switched ambulances between hospital networks: for

(Both were throwing bills and the insurance company kicked it back because the paperwork was inconsistent between the two)

It can be summarized as

Anybody who has good health care: against
Anybody who doesn't have good health care: for

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Phokus

I agree, lets keep the current system with 10-30 percent overhead. Why would i want a more efficient system like Canada's or even our own medicare with 1 percent overhead? I want private healthcare providers to pocket as much profit as possible.

medicare only has a 1 percent overhead if you're entirely dishonest about what counts as overhead.

But if you account for it in any remotely honest way you will see that it is still lower than the private companies.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: cubeless

sure might reign in costs... to paraphrase a g. will op/ed from this a.m.: "...when the hospital's main costs were clean linen..." we can revert to a simpler time and model with none of the newfangled stuff that makes prices go up...

we also need to have a whole new system of hospices (ok, death houses) to cut the cost of those last weeks/months that are draining huge resources... they could be staffed at minimum wage by unemployeed people who are given military style medic training... bed and meds is all u get...

and any one on public care has a big DNR on their chart...

I have no idea what you are talking about. Every other industrialized nation on earth runs a health care system in the modern environment with nothing even close to what you're talking about, and their socialized systems are leaps and bounds more efficient than our failing private one.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
This late in the thread nobody will care but I will describe my own first-hand observations about the Canadian healthcare system...

Some years ago (1990 to be exact... maybe things have improved but I'm guessing they haven't) a friend of mine had an accident while in Yellowknife, NWT.

She was dancing... sat down and dislocated her kneecap...

Ouch

Ambulance came and took her away... she got to the hospital at 12:15am... The Dr. on duty got off at midnight. The nurses called him but he was OFF... and he told them as much. Told them to give her Tylonol. Yay! Government employee!

The next Dr wasn't scheduled in until 6am. And when the nurses called, he told them that he was off until 6am. (Surprised he even answered the call)

So my friend sat there with a dislocated kneecap with nothing but Tylonol for the pain until the next Dr showed up for his 'shift' at 6am.

In a microcosm, this is my experience with socialized health care. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now.

In the end... when she left third world health care of Canada and made it back to the US (Alaska - the biggest joke in US health care) it was clear that her initial problem would have been taken care of quickly... the delay she experienced in Canuckistan caused her to suffer three additional surgeries that wouldn't have been needed had she just been treated when she showed up at the medical center.

So pardon me if I've seen those Canadian health care 'myths' up close and personal. They're not myths... they are real. The Canuckistan health care system sucks.

I'd rather worry about how to pay the bill than wait for something that I needed NOW.

And Canadians live in igloos too!

LOL using Yellowknife as an example of why Canadian healthcare sucks. Her life was not in danger with a dislocated kneecap, in the middle of night, in the middle of the arctic tundra in a city with the population under 20000 and is the biggest city around in an area of over 440000 square miles. Worst is you are comparing it to Alaska, which has a population of 680000 people. Do you even realize how small Yellowknife and 20,000 people is? Even Maui which you used to show how great even the worst of US healthcare can be has 120000 population within a radius twice as small as the town of Yellowknife.

If this is the best you have to use as an example, I'm sure there's plenty that can be used for why the American healthcare system is a disaster with similar extremes.

Yellowknife HAHAHAHA