Debt Limitapalooza 2023!

[Dave_5k]

My guess is because they are lying when they say that’s what it does.

Basically, it is a way of kicking mostly older poor people off of food assistance and taking away health care from a large swath of poor people - a backdoor reversal of a major part of the ACA - with no expected increase in employment. Kicking the poors while their down, standard GOP practice. (Note SNAP already has work requirements for those under age 50).

"While Medicaid hasn't had a federal work requirement, one state — Arkansas — implemented such measures in 2018. The result: 18,000 Arkansans lost health care coverage, with many suffering from adverse effects like medical debt or skipping medications. It didn't increase employment in the state, according to the CBO. In 2019, a court ruling ended Arkansas' work requirements for Medicaid."
...

"Legislation passed by the House in April would impose new or expanded work requirements for three federal programs — the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, the food aid formerly known as food stamps; Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, which offers aid to low-income families with children; and Medicaid assistance for adults without dependents.

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is insisting that the proposed work requirements be part of negotiations with Biden over raising the debt limit and avoiding a national default."

 

[Brainonska511]

But I don’t get this final sticking point on work requirements. Dems and pundits are making it sound like they are forcing seniors out of retirement. Or forcing new moms to not have maternity leave. While yes we can’t trust the word of the spineless speaker, but he’s on the record saying the requirements only targeted at abled bodied individuals without dependents. As long it clearly makes the distinction, why are Dems so against this?

Because work requirements generally serve to just create another paperwork barrier that leads to eligible people getting kicked off stuff or leading fewer people to apply for aid in the first place.

 

[Paratus]

Just saw a headline an agreement in principle has been reached.

 

[eelw]

Until the congress vote screws it up again

 

[eelw]

Win for Biden. Got deal to raise debt ceiling 2 years. Got to keep important part of inflation reduction act. Had to give up on his IRS funding. No details on the work requirements.

 

[ivwshane]

No IRS funding? Lol that’s the game right there. Can’t be having those new agents looking at the taxes of the rich./eye roll

 

[sportage]

No one knows as of yet but from what McCarthy said it appears some type of work requirement WILL be in the deal if the deal is approved by the house and senate. McCarthy said the deal preserves the dignity of work and raising the poor out of poverty, so that sure sounds like a work requirement to me. Raising people out of poverty and the dignity of working. Someone prove me wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

No IRS funding? Lol that’s the game right there. Can’t be having those new agents looking at the taxes of the rich./eye roll

Where are you seeing no IRS finding? If that’s true that’s awful.

 

[K1052]

Pending the basically the details of what the SNAP changes look like it's hard to say that the Rs got anything they would not have gotten in normal, non-insane, budget negotiation. Maybe less.

 

[MrSquished]

Win for Biden. Got deal to raise debt ceiling 2 years. Got to keep important part of inflation reduction act. Had to give up on his IRS funding. No details on the work requirements.

A win for Biden?

It's unbelievable that some Democrats will call this a win. This is an epic failure. Joe Biden should be embarrassed and he should step down his nominee and let somebody that knows what they're doing win the nomination for 2024.

This entire process was a spectacular failure. The Republicans should have gotten zero concessions. And could have had gotten zero concessions if this administration did anything right from the beginning.

This is a fucking embarrassment. Time for new leadership for the Democrats.

 

[K1052]

Where are you seeing no IRS finding? If that’s true that’s awful.

Likely a cut to the 80B they got, though a cut of 10B or less had been discussed. The agency probably couldn't even spend all the money this year anyway so don't know how harmful it really is if on that scale.

 

[MrSquished]

Pending the basically the details of what the SNAP changes look like it's hard to say that the Rs got anything they would not have gotten in normal, non-insane, budget negotiation. Maybe less.

This wasn't a budget negotiation this was a debt ceiling negotiation and thus it was a total failure when Biden had the tools to avoid this altogether.

 

[K1052]

A win for Biden?

It's unbelievable that some Democrats will call this a win. This is an epic failure. Joe Biden should be embarrassed and he should step down his nominee and let somebody that knows what they're doing win the nomination for 2024.

This entire process was a spectacular failure. The Republicans should have gotten zero concessions. And could have had gotten zero concessions if this administration did anything right from the beginning.

This is a fucking embarrassment. Time for new leadership for the Democrats.

I think there is an argument that rolling the budget agreements into this ultimately work out beneficially for the dems. 23 was a high baseline due to the fat omni so 24 flat hurts less and 1% more the next year. Also no shutdowns.

 

[K1052]

This wasn't a budget negotiation this was a debt ceiling negotiation and thus it was a total failure when Biden had the tools to avoid this altogether.

It was the first one originally and became both. Under the terms as I understand its basically impossible for the Rs to force a shutdown.

 

[MrSquished]

It was the first one originally and became both. Under the terms as I understand its basically impossible for the Rs to force a shutdown.

Should have left it for a budget fight then. Tying anything into the debt ceiling is a huge failure in and of itself. Especially because Biden did have one really good tool at his disposal and he fucked it up.

If I was the progressive caucus I would not vote for this. You can't vote for such poor leadership at this point in time against this current GQP.

Joe Biden needs to go.

 

[sportage]

Should have left it for a budget fight then. Tying anything into the debt ceiling is a huge failure in and of itself. Especially because Biden did have one really good tool at his disposal and he fucked it up.

If I was the progressive caucus I would not vote for this. You can't vote for such poor leadership at this point in time against this current GQP.

Joe Biden needs to go.

This gives republicans pretty much what they always wanted, that is.... when a democrat holds the Whitehouse. Debt ceiling attached to budget cuts. Why didn't democrats try this when Trump had the Whitehouse? Insist on budget increases for a yes vote to raise the debt ceiling?

But anywho, this isn't a done deal just yet. We have a lot of drama queens in congress on both sides who can independently kill the deal. The Joe Manchin's who want to make a name for themselves, especially over this. To make Trump proud. MTGreene smell power, a lot of power, so let's just see how much these maga listen to McCarthy now.

I'm curious if it will be a group, or an individual, or from which side or both sides that will kill the deal? If I were McCarthy I'd watch my back during the next few days.

 

[Charmonium]

How many Dems does it take to save Kevin?

Kevin better get a nice tan during his time in the sun because the next time he sees it, he's going to whiter than good coke.

 

[Charmonium]

Not to shitpost but please excuse the following shitpost.

Someday I'm going to make a very brief attempt to see if there's any cromulent explanation for our binary politics when about 1/3rd of the electorate is independent. I'm guessing "I" must represent a Baskin Robbins array of flavors.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Not to shitpost but please excuse the following shitpost.

Someday I'm going to make a very brief attempt to see if there's any cromulent explanation for our binary politics when about 1/3rd of the electorate is independent. I'm guessing "I" must represent a Baskin Robbins array of flavors.

The paralysis of a two-party system is well documented, and it's very difficult to pull a third party out successfully. It's much easier when there's 4 or more, but 3 party is unstable, and eventually collapses to two.

 

[eelw]

How many Dems does it take to save Kevin?

Kevin better get a nice tan during his time in the sun because the next time he sees it, he's going to whiter than good coke.

One Dem made offer to the spineless one. Stop pandering to the crazies. When they vote to remove you, I’ll support you. I bet enough Dems will agree to prevent a speakership removal from interfering with this bill.

 

[Ajay]

The paralysis of a two-party system is well documented, and it's very difficult to pull a third party out successfully. It's much easier when there's 4 or more, but 3 party is unstable, and eventually collapses to two.

Our election system for one, essentially makes third parties unworkable. This guy https://youtube.com/@CGPGrey has a couple of video on voting systems and their effects. To lazy to find them for you ATM.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The paralysis of a two-party system is well documented, and it's very difficult to pull a third party out successfully. It's much easier when there's 4 or more, but 3 party is unstable, and eventually collapses to two.

winner-takes-all and first-past-the-post all but guarantee a 2-party system as the most "optimal" solution. either you win, and you win everything, or you don't. it's a binary outcome.

 

[fskimospy]

Likely a cut to the 80B they got, though a cut of 10B or less had been discussed. The agency probably couldn't even spend all the money this year anyway so don't know how harmful it really is if on that scale.

It does seem like the republicans basically folded and Biden won, but still we are just going to do this dance again in a few years. If Biden wins a second term the best thing he could do for the country would be something akin to a debt limit Afghanistan - take the personal political hit and end this stupidity forever.

 

[K1052]

It does seem like the republicans basically folded and Biden won, but still we are just going to do this dance again in a few years. If Biden wins a second term the best thing he could do for the country would be something akin to a debt limit Afghanistan - take the personal political hit and end this stupidity forever.

This things gotta pass first so we could still get there. Sooner or later it’s going to be done though.

 

[Charmonium]

The paralysis of a two-party system is well documented, and it's very difficult to pull a third party out successfully. It's much easier when there's 4 or more, but 3 party is unstable, and eventually collapses to two.

That's an interesting hypothesis which I'm guessing has at least anecdotal support. I wonder if more "parliamentary" style electorates tend to have mostly "single issue" voters. Of course those issues can be very broad such as climate change. Another more circumspect way of putting it is that those voters are much more focused - which I think is extremely interesting.

One Dem made offer to the spineless one. Stop pandering to the crazies. When they vote to remove you, I’ll support you. I bet enough Dems will agree to prevent a speakership removal from interfering with this bill.

I very much like that. The Dems aren't nearly as calcified as the Klown Kar Kaucus and Pugs generally. First they are much more in touch with reality and most won't see a problem voting for a republican speaker and a republican bill.