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Debt Limitapalooza 2023!

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Brainonska511 said:
Also, your wallet doesn't care what kind of tax it's paying. At the end of the day, it's a tax and it's money you don't have to spend on yourself.
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Trust me I don't want to pay more in tax than I need to so it's not like I'm jumping up and down to pay more. 🙃

Better yet, let's just reduce spending to match income and stop borrowing the difference each year pretending it doesn't matter.
 
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As someone who once subscribed to Republican economics, I think jaskalas would be a big help in reaching Felix. Because as it stands now, no one is reaching him or getting him to understand that the economic ideology he believes in is nothing but fairytales and lies.
Clearly over forty years of data that proves Felix wrong isn’t enough, we need more feels in the discussion.
 
FelixDeCat said:
Better yet, let's just reduce spending to match income and stop borrowing the difference each year pretending it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

But.... it doesn't matter.
Americans love to spend triple than we actually have to spend. Look at credit card debt, look at the price of housing and new cars, are we going to live in a one room shack that we can afford, or 4 bedroom ranch-style home WITH a cement pool in back? Or, do we prefer a 30 thousand fully loaded SUV rather than a 2 thousand used 2002 chevy Cruze?

Our national debt only reflects American spending habits. That won't change. Oh we tried.... Clinton balanced the budget but that didn't last long. Along came a republican president, the supposed conservative guy in the room, and BOOM the spending began. We love our money but we love the spending of our money more. And when you don't have enough spending money, grab the old reliable master card. You can do a lot of fun things with money that you don't have like sending tanks to Ukraine.
 
Brainonska511 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1620508886636847104

These people are morons: to them, the debt limit is simultaneously "no big deal" and "leverage" to get unspecified spending cuts. By definition, it cannot be both of those things at the same time.
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Their plan, from what I understand it, is to demand that Biden choose the spending cuts that they would of course invariably claim were the wrong cuts.

These people are so, so stupid. Their plan is so ham handed and obvious that no one with a brain would ever agree to it. Then again, they are kind of forced into it because they don’t have a real plan.
 
fskimospy said:
Their plan, from what I understand it, is to demand that Biden choose the spending cuts that they would of course invariably claim were the wrong cuts.

These people are so, so stupid. Their plan is so ham handed and obvious that no one with a brain would ever agree to it. Then again, they are kind of forced into it because they don’t have a real plan.
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So these morons accurately represent their base voters. Lol
 
I don't think Biden is going to budge which he shouldn't. Somehow I see McCarthy getting a recall vote by the looniest of the loons in his party when he can't get Biden to let him leverage the debt ceiling as a negotiating tool.
 
MrSquished said:
I don't think Biden is going to budge which he shouldn't. Somehow I see McCarthy getting a recall vote by the looniest of the loons in his party when he can't get Biden to let him leverage the debt ceiling as a negotiating tool.
Click to expand...

I think he could be screwed either way. The nutbags in the GQP will move for a no confidence vote if he allows an increase vote to go to the floor. And I could see from the "we don't have brainworms" caucus do the exact same if he doesn't bring a vote up.
 
Pens1566 said:
I think he could be screwed either way. The nutbags in the GQP will move for a no confidence vote if he allows an increase vote to go to the floor. And I could see from the "we don't have brainworms" caucus do the exact same if he doesn't bring a vote up.
Click to expand...
He’s not in real danger there as democrats would protect him.
 
brycejones said:
Wow dude, I knew you were a moron but wow
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Have you never met a conservative?
Their entire voting base believes these things.
Because their media is flooded with these messages of inflation and government spending.
Felix is simply gracious enough to share some insight into their bubble, the same one many Republican Congress critters, and Fox News hosts, subscribe to. They are adherents of an ideology that is antithetical to how our economy functions. They will bring it down if they can.

It is tribal fervor, a basic human behavior. We do not function on truth, facts, or even logic. Humans are largely irrational with a thin veneer of rationality as a mask to hide the truth. That we operate on faith before anything else. If my tribe tells me X, then X must be true - even if I must throw my family onto a pyre to appease the gods. Today, there is NOTHING that seperates us biologically from those who ran the Salem Witch Trials, or the Inca / Aztec Human Sacrifices. We are the same. Only some faith in more civil ideas allowed most of us to act different. But again... that difference is paper thin and NOTHING supports it and prevents us from reverting aside from trust in our institutions. The very things Republicans diverted from and assail today.

If you want to gloss over and simplify things, then yes.. moron would suffice. I'd prefer the phrase... ape gonna ape. But then I'd like to tell you why. Cause humanity is not the enlightened rosy picture we Americans pretended it was, in our zeal to glorify ourselves and our nation. We aren't that special, nor is humanity all that bright. In fact we are downright horrible, just look at any part of history. You'll find the atrocities are all the same. Unchanging and unflinching, we are still barbarians.

If a person subscribes to another tribe, then you would do well to understand the full breadth of their ideas. Lest you be surprised when they do something completely insane... and all the lemmings line up to jump off the cliff with them. Without the institutions that ground us to reality, the sky is the limit for how batshit things can, AND WILL, get. Do not underestimate our capacity to destroy ourselves.
 
ivwshane said:
As someone who once subscribed to Republican economics, I think jaskalas would be a big help in reaching Felix. Because as it stands now, no one is reaching him or getting him to understand that the economic ideology he believes in is nothing but fairytales and lies.
Clearly over forty years of data that proves Felix wrong isn’t enough, we need more feels in the discussion.
Click to expand...

That's problematic, because my reaction to our 2008-2010 economic arguments... was to realize the Republican argument was baseless, broke. And the stimulus we did employ was a great benefit for our people. You won the argument easily, mostly because Republicans hardly presented any compelling arguments and NOTHING they warned us about came to pass. It was all smoke and mirrors to scare people. You all proved that.

Wanting the truth and observing the test of it relieved me of their economic ideas.
Few years later, I watched Inequality For All and the shocking truth of THE GAP gut punched me. In order for our workers to earn as much money as Boomers did, minimum wage would have to be much higher than $15. Yet we fight tooth and claw to extract mere crumbs from them today. Call it a victory if wages take one step forward after taking ten steps backwards. It is absolutely ludicrous what Reaganomics has done this this country throughout my life time.

That is when I arrived to the Left of anyone I know in Congress. My intent for Basic Income and the taxes to fund it would make Bernie Sanders blush.
I am no longer an effective "insider" for the Republican group, especially after they all jumped on the MAGA train and sang Trump's praises. Dear god no.

They will not see me as one of them, and thus I will not get through that gate any more effectively than any of you. Some of you have made perfectly logical arguments in this topic, if anyone was wanting to listen. With an effort, I might have some capacity IRL where real human empathy and understanding can try to come into play. I do know much about them and where they are coming from. But that is largely lost with online texts. And if I couldn't prevent those closest to me from becoming MAGA...

Yeah, about that...
 
Jaskalas said:
Have you never met a conservative?
Their entire voting base believes these things.
Because their media is flooded with these messages of inflation and government spending.
Felix is simply gracious enough to share some insight into their bubble, the same one many Republican Congress critters, and Fox News hosts, subscribe to. They are adherents of an ideology that is antithetical to how our economy functions. They will bring it down if they can.

It is tribal fervor, a basic human behavior. We do not function on truth, facts, or even logic. Humans are largely irrational with a thin veneer of rationality as a mask to hide the truth. That we operate on faith before anything else. If my tribe tells me X, then X must be true - even if I must throw my family onto a pyre to appease the gods. Today, there is NOTHING that seperates us biologically from those who ran the Salem Witch Trials, or the Inca / Aztec Human Sacrifices. We are the same. Only some faith in more civil ideas allowed most of us to act different. But again... that difference is paper thin and NOTHING supports it and prevents us from reverting aside from trust in our institutions. The very things Republicans diverted from and assail today.

If you want to gloss over and simplify things, then yes.. moron would suffice. I'd prefer the phrase... ape gonna ape. But then I'd like to tell you why. Cause humanity is not the enlightened rosy picture we Americans pretended it was, in our zeal to glorify ourselves and our nation. We aren't that special, nor is humanity all that bright. In fact we are downright horrible, just look at any part of history. You'll find the atrocities are all the same. Unchanging and unflinching, we are still barbarians.

If a person subscribes to another tribe, then you would do well to understand the full breadth of their ideas. Lest you be surprised when they do something completely insane... and all the lemmings line up to jump off the cliff with them. Without the institutions that ground us to reality, the sky is the limit for how batshit things can, AND WILL, get. Do not underestimate our capacity to destroy ourselves.
Click to expand...

Ok moonie
 
nakedfrog said:
That would probably work perfectly, right up until a Republican president took office.
Click to expand...

It did once…under Clinton. Once GWB took office, the surpluses that Clinton’s budgets created disappeared faster than you can say “Tax Cuts DON’T Pay For Themselves.”
 
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