Debt is the New Slavery

[Chiropteran]

College debt assures that we have plenty of slaves.

Discuss.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

College debt assures that we have plenty of slaves.

Discuss.

College is not mandatory to succeed in this world.

Discuss.

 

[fstime]

They will get you one way or another.

You're either going to have a mortgage, college debt, credit card debt, or a car loan. Or in many cases, all of the above.

"Incomes of the bottom 90 percent grew $59 in 40 years"

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/25/incomes_of_bottom_90_percent_grew_59_in_40_years/

Only thinking keeping the slaves from questioning their masters is easily accessible credit.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Also, supply and demand, yadda yadda - all that other stuff that floats right on by your brain cells.

 

[fstime]

College is not mandatory to succeed in this world.

Discuss.

Students are brainwashed into thinking it is during high school. The mentality usually goes "if you don't go to college, you'll be flipping burgers."

The government is a part of the problem, allowing anyone and everyone unlimited student loan access has allowed universities to raise costs year after year without fear.

 

[Jaskalas]

College is not mandatory to succeed in this world.

Discuss.

Tell that to an employer.

 

[Juror No. 8]

You don't have to have college debt to be a slave, you just need to pay income taxes.

If you have to pay taxes on something, whether it's to use, possess, or trade it, you don't own it. Whoever you have to pay the taxes to owns it, since they can legally confiscate it or prevent you from using it if you don't pay them the tax they demand. Another way to think of it is as rent. Income tax is essentially a tax on one's labor, and since we all have to pay it, that means we don't own it, we merely rent it.

So who owns our labor? The government/State does. And who owns the government/State? Rich people do, just as they always have all throughout history. We're all slaves owned by rich people living and working on giant nation-state cotton plantations we call "countries".

 

[BoberFett]

Tell that to an employer.

The people who work for me all have college degrees and make decent money. But I make more than they do without a degree.

 

[Oldgamer]

Tell that to an employer.

I was just going to say, even my employer requires a certain amount of degrees to work here.

If you look at all the online posts for positions, most jobs that can give a person a good decent working wage are going to want some type of degree.

...and yes, you could end up on minimum wage flipping burgers or greeting customers at walmart if you don't invest in your education.

 

[Oldgamer]

The people who work for me all have college degrees and make decent money. But I make more than they do without a degree.

I know of some co workers who didn't have degrees to be computer techs, and got their jobs 10-12 years back with only their certs. They didn't go to college and back then they paid a lot more money for computer techs than they do now. Now they have plenty of experience so if they start looking for another company to work for, most will over look that they don't have a college degree because of their experience. But on the other hand, I know kids just out of college who can't get jobs as a computer tech, or networking unless they have at least an associates degree in their field. So it really does mean that an education is very important if your competing with others for the same position, unless of course you have years of experience in your field.

However, I have seen some folks with years of experience not get hired for lacking a degree but it is usually an age related issue, as some companies want the younger folks so they can mold them the way they want them, without all the "baggage" and "set ways" of a senior person for that position.

Either way it helps tremendously to have a college education. Even if your going to a Junior college, get some type of degree.

 

[Juror No. 8]

For the most part, employers don't necessarily care if you're intelligent, quick-witted, or resourceful. In fact, a lot of hiring managers are afraid of such people, since many of them are fearful of being replaced themselves. They only want you smart enough to do the job and not ask too many questions.

As for college degrees, they don't necessarily mean you are intelligent. All a college degree means to an employer is you are willing to jump through hoops and do what you're told. That's exactly what they are looking for. Somebody who has proven they can jump through hoops, do what they are told, and diligently perform a bunch of mundane assignments. That's what you've proven when you get your degree, that you can safely be plugged into some corporate hierarchy like a cog in a machine and perform some kind of redundant task.

They don't teach you this in high school or while you're in college. They can't, obviously. Because if they did, many more students would drop out and tell them to fuck off. This is the kind of thing you learn only after you've graduated and joined the working world. It's all just a giant scam.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I was just going to say, even my employer requires a certain amount of degrees to work here.

If you look at all the online posts for positions, most jobs that can give a person a good decent working wage are going to want some type of degree.

...and yes, you could end up on minimum wage flipping burgers or greeting customers at walmart if you don't invest in your education.

Typical liberal logic. It has NOTHING to do with education. It has to do with skills.

The demand for said skill is what determines your worth. If you sit around smoking weed and drinking 24/7. Your skills probably will boil down to that of a Walmart worker. What are those skills? The same skills every mother (as well as life in general) teaches you - your ability to lift objects.

There are plenty of ways - and usually it only involves your own simple interest.
Computers? You don't need a degree. Plenty of places will hire on certifications and experience. Albeit, probably not huge corporations - but thats because they get to be incredibly picky based on their applications
Airplanes? My soon to be brother in law works for the airforce and manages it.
Cars? I know plenty who came out just fine.
Cooking? I know a dude that became a pro chef and he sure as hell didn't go to college
Designer?
Photographer?
Plumber?
18-Wheel truck driver?

The difference? it was based on skills that they persued and KNEW they were going to persue. I can go on and on and on and on with examples of damn good jobs. Anyone who says college is required is sucked into the system thanks to your liberal media and stupidity.

 

[Oldgamer]

Typical liberal logic. It has NOTHING to do with education. It has to do with skills.

The demand for said skill is what determines your worth. If you sit around smoking weed and drinking 24/7. Your skills probably will boil down to that of a Walmart worker. What are those skills? The same skills every mother (as well as life in general) teaches you - your ability to lift objects.

There are plenty of ways - and usually it only involves your own simple interest.
Computers? You don't need a degree. Plenty of places will hire on certifications and experience. Albeit, probably not huge corporations - but thats because they get to be incredibly picky based on their applications
Airplanes? My soon to be brother in law works for the airforce and manages it.
Cars? I know plenty who came out just fine.
Cooking? I know a dude that became a pro chef and he sure as hell didn't go to college
Designer?
Photographer?
Plumber?
18-Wheel truck driver?

The difference? it was based on skills that they persued and KNEW they were going to persue. I can go on and on and on and on with examples of damn good jobs. Anyone who says college is required is sucked into the system thanks to your liberal media and stupidity.

wow, ok obviously you didn't read my second post. Skills are important, but that takes training. In addition, if you have some college you are more likely to improve your chances of landing that job.

I for one would want the better paying position at the larger company then the lesser paying position at the mom and pop computer repair store.

Getting a degree shows that you have had training, and you have the knowledge to do the job at its most basic level.

I agree, having a college degree doesn't necessarily mean you have street smarts. Plenty of people out there who have degrees and lack common sense.

By the way you have to go to truck driving school to get a good well paying truck driving position and you have to have the driver license designation for it. So training is involved.

Thats great if your friend became a professional chef at top level. Not many do without some type of culinary schooling. But I am sure he is the rare exception.

 

[Matt1970]

Why do you need to put "Discuss" at the end of your post?

Discuss.

 

[SheHateMe]

The people who work for me all have college degrees and make decent money. But I make more than they do without a degree.

And how old are you?


I'm 23....I can't just quit College today and get a decent job. Many employers that I have interviewed with want people who have a degree. If not a degree, you better have 5+ years of experience.

Typical liberal logic.

Don't ruin the thread with that nonsense, dude.

 

[Oldgamer]

And how old are you?


I'm 23....I can't just quit College today and get a decent job. Many employers that I have interviewed with want people who have a degree. If not a degree, you better have 5+ years of experience.



Don't ruin the thread with that nonsense, dude.

This is exactly what I was trying to say in my second post. If you are in your 30s , 40's and 50s with years of experience (hands on training at work) then you don't need that college degree. But if your just starting out and have "0" experience you are going to need that college degree.

Like I said my employer won't even consider hiring anyone with out some type of degree. If your are out of the military then you have had some training in some field.

Vocational training can cost more than college in some cases. Your better off putting your money in a junior college and getting an associates degree in some field in my opinion.

 

[IGBT]

if you are going to go to college be sure to do a ROI (return on investment) analysis. A degree in nothing earns nothing.

 

[werepossum]

Interesting concept. You choose to borrow money to make yourself a desirable employee to earn more money, and if you have to pay back that money then you are a slave. However, if government takes money away from you to give other people "free" educations, for which you have no choice, presumably you are free, even though in the first case the debt is eventually paid back whereas in the second case the government will take that money away as long as you have income.

I suppose the natural question is whether we Americans are still smart enough to not be slaves. The original post unintentionally argues we are not.

 

[Oldgamer]

I will never understand this "anti-education" sentiment from some people. My kids are successful because they received college educations. Most people who have college education go on to do well. Why would anyone be against a good college education? I shake my head at this.

 

[Tango]

I will never understand this "anti-education" sentiment from some people. My kids are successful because they received college educations. Most people who have college education go on to do well. Why would anyone be against a good college education? I shake my head at this.

I agree. It's puzzling.

I would also add that there are many, many reasons for wanting (at least) a college education apart from just performance in the job market.

On the other end it's true that college is alarmingly expensive in the US. That's why I received my college education in Europe and only attended graduate school in the US (yes, I know, not everybody can do this).

 

[lotus503]

I will never understand this "anti-education" sentiment from some people. My kids are successful because they received college educations. Most people who have college education go on to do well. Why would anyone be against a good college education? I shake my head at this.

Its pure insanity, I wouldn't go to a doctor that didn't go to med school.
or hire a lawyer that didn't go to law school.

Or hire some guy off the street for an M&A team without some demonstrated schooling in M&A, and in most cases a masters.

Most people who claim education doesn't matter don't have one. Sure its not required to be successful, however its required to be successful at certain things and is often referenced as a basis for knowledge and understanding in ones field.

In certain jobs functions I prefer solid experience over formal edcuation, in others there is simply no practical way to get experience without first having formal education. In most cases I require both, an educational background with demonstrated experience.

Id love a list of CFOs with no degree. sure you can work as a computer tech without one or even start your own business or do something that doesn't require formal eduction.

But when push comes to shove and its you and another applicant both similar experience and one with a degree. Unless I can get uneducated dude super cheap, its the guy with the degree every time.

 

[nextJin]

I don't think anyone would argue a college education is not a good thing especially with very specific jobs like Doctors, Laywers, etc. The thing is that almost every high school in America is pushing college as if it is the end all be all. Not everyone wants to goto college and we need more Americans in tradeskill work rather than illegals. The way alot of school districts work now is that they don't have any tradeskill courses and once they quit or graduate they have to come out of pocket to goto a trade school.

We frankly need to abandon the college push because we have a disportionate amount of illegals working in trade jobs and way too many Americans goto degree mills for prices that continually keep going up because of free government money.

If kids want to goto college then by all means, they should be able too. But for those that don't we need to provide viable alternatives. Everyone keeps saying the middle class is shrinking, well no shit. Let's try and actually help them out while at the same time coming to a bipartisan agreement on immigration reform and better consumer homeowner protection laws for folks.

This shouldn't be a political issue, both sides should agree to these types of things without much fuss. The bipartisan immigration bill was a step in the right direction, but that is only one piece of a very large pie.

 

[BoberFett]

Who's anti-education? Not me. I think it's a great thing.

What's damaging is the push to send every last American through school at an extremely high cost because we tell them that they're going to be working at Starbucks for the rest of their lives if they don't. And they they go work at Starbucks anyway.

Perhaps if high school were reverted to a place of learning rather than a day care where we teach young adults that they're all special flowers, universities could revert to being places of learning and advancement of humanity rather than job training centers.

Edit: And I'm 37. I started out as a self taught programmer, worked my way up through hard work and dedication, and have been in IT management making quite a bit of money since I was 32.

 

[Texashiker]

A lot of it depends on how a person applies themself.

I was in my mid-20s before I went to college, had a career, making good money,, I just got tired of working 50 - 80 hours a week in the welding field.

I used to work with people who made $100k a year on offshore drilling rigs. I never made $100k, but then again I never worked on a drilling rig.

If a person applies themself, there are ways to make money besides going to college.

Another thing, college does not teach people how to make money. College teaches people how to work for others.

There is a difference between working and making money.

 

[sunzt]

could have gotten my first full-time intern job without college education, which led to my 2nd intern job, 3rd intern job, 4th intern job, and subsequent full-time positions...


Discuss.