Debt Ceiling Panic

[BUnit1701]

Nope. A truly responsible government would DELIBERATELY take out debt when times were advantageous to do so. Your position of never taking out debt would make the government a poor steward of its financial position.

Irresponsibility.

Our position (well, mine at least) isn't that we should never take out debt, its that we shouldn't be ALWAYS taking out debt.

 

[Brovane]

There are times when we may need a reasonable amount of debt, but that does not mean I have to agree with it.

Carrying $16+ trillion in debt is not what I call reasonable.




That is what we get for letting banks run the nation.

When did our national debt take off? Shortly after the federal reserve and the income tax were established. Up until the early 1900s the US carried a reasonable amount of debt.

If we ever abolished the debt ceiling we would jeopardize our national security.

So what else starting happening around the turn of the century? The US started becoming more active in world affairs and started spending more on defense.

 

[fskimospy]

Our position (well, mine at least) isn't that we should never take out debt, its that we shouldn't be ALWAYS taking out debt.

I would say that we shouldn't always be increasing our debt/GDP ratio. The biggest problem we have had since the 1980s in a fiscal sense is the idea that we can run up the debt in good economic times. Economics tells us that it is not only foolish from a governed debt perspective, but Ricardian equivalence says it won't even improve economic output.

Running up our debt in the last five years is EXACTLY what we should have been doing from an economic perspective, however.

 

[ElFenix]

That is what we get for letting banks run the nation.

When did our national debt take off? Shortly after the federal reserve and the income tax were established. Up until the early 1900s the US carried a reasonable amount of debt.

which coincided with what? oh, that's right, WWI.

50 years of ever increasing deficits and ballooning debt is 'short term' to you?

35 years. it's been since ronnie. ronnie loved debt. we'd gotten our debt-gdp down to pre-WW2 levels. then ronnie took over.

 

[Texashiker]

which coincided with what?

Women getting the right to vote.




Correlation does not mean causation.

 

[ElFenix]

Women getting the right to vote.




Correlation does not mean causation.

no, it doesn't. but, when you have *WARTIME SPENDING INCREASES,* it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that the resulting debt increase has something to do with it.

btw, the debt increase happened before the 19th amendment was passed.

 

[LunarRay]

no, it doesn't. but, when you have *WARTIME SPENDING INCREASES,* it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that the resulting debt increase has something to do with it.

btw, the debt increase happened before the 19th amendment was passed.

Not to forget that Mr. Bush approved not only one but two massive tax cuts during the two wars he supported.... Well... not to blame just him... but that Congress and He supported.

 

[rudeguy]

So someone help my simple mind:

Do we just keep spending and never get out of debt?

 

[Jaskalas]

So someone help my simple mind:

Do we just keep spending and never get out of debt?

Debt is just money that hasn't been printed yet.

 

[ivwshane]

So someone help my simple mind:

Do we just keep spending and never get out of debt?

Do you think you or others would be willing to pay 10-20% more in taxes when the economy is booming? No? Then we won't ever get out of debt.

Guess which party never wants to raise taxes?

 

[ElFenix]

So someone help my simple mind:

Do we just keep spending and never get out of debt?

yes.

 

[theeedude]

Do you think you or others would be willing to pay 10-20% more in taxes when the economy is booming? No? Then we won't ever get out of debt.

Guess which party never wants to raise taxes?

It's not just not raising taxes. Any time there is a surplus, they want to cut taxes, saying that a surplus is a sign that Washington is taking in too much.

 

[Brovane]

Not to forget that Mr. Bush approved not only one but two massive tax cuts during the two wars he supported.... Well... not to blame just him... but that Congress and He supported.

I thought Obama was to blame for the deficit? :whiste:

 

[rudeguy]

I thought Obama was to blame for the deficit? :whiste:

Would you guys knock off the Bush vs Obama shit already? Bush has been out of office for 5 years now. Obama has ran up the debt like never before. It's a fact.

But it sounds like you are fine with that. Rack up more and more debt and let someone else figure out how to pay it back.

I repeat...BUSH IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

 

[IGBT]

time for the feds to "key board" more pseudo QE money.

 

[IGBT]

So someone help my simple mind:

Do we just keep spending and never get out of debt?

..you do it till the economy is "busted out". At that point the smoke and mirrors become fighting in the streets.

 

[Victorian Gray]

That is what we get for letting banks run the nation.

When did our national debt take off? Shortly after the federal reserve and the income tax were established. Up until the early 1900s the US carried a reasonable amount of debt.

If we ever abolished the debt ceiling we would jeopardize our national security.

And yet you said this:

"A truly responsible government would have no debt."

As I said, excluding Jackson, the US has never had a responsible govt. based on your own criteria.

 

[Brovane]

Would you guys knock off the Bush vs Obama shit already? Bush has been out of office for 5 years now. Obama has ran up the debt like never before. It's a fact.

But it sounds like you are fine with that. Rack up more and more debt and let someone else figure out how to pay it back.

I repeat...BUSH IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

It is also a fact that Bush inherited a Surplus that he turned into a massive deficit and Obama inherited a massive deficit, 2 wars and a recession. How is that for a fact?

 

[MagickMan]

Progs want more debt and deficit spending, because they believe that if the USA defaults it'll be like some big financial reset making everyone "even" again. What they don't realize is that the poorest of Americans will suffer the most, for hyperinflation see Zimbabwe, while the wealthiest will remain where they are because they still have the most in "hard" assets not tied to currency and securities.

 

[ivwshane]

Progs want more debt and deficit spending, because they believe that if the USA defaults it'll be like some big financial reset making everyone "even" again. What they don't realize is that the poorest of Americans will suffer the most, for hyperinflation see Zimbabwe, while the wealthiest will remain where they are because they still have the most in "hard" assets not tied to currency and securities.

Lol wut?!

Your shtick might work on a yahoo political group but it's not going to work here, we are actually capable of verifying claims and thinking for ourselves.

Try again

 

[Texashiker]

As I said, excluding Jackson, the US has never had a responsible govt. based on your own criteria.

That is correct.

no, it doesn't. but, when you have *WARTIME SPENDING INCREASES,* it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that the resulting debt increase has something to do with it.

<playing advocatus Dei>

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to know women have a spending problem. Even cartoons from the 70s made fun of this fact when Jane Jetson took George Jetsons wallet from him.

This "wartime" spending has gone on far too long. There is no excuse for spending so much money on the military when our roads are falling parts and students need funding for higher education.

 

[MagickMan]

Lol wut?!

Your shtick might work on a yahoo political group but it's not going to work here, we are actually capable of verifying claims and thinking for ourselves.

Try again

You must have McOwned and bs.hole on ignore, then. :hmm:

 

[ElFenix]

That is correct.




<playing advocatus Dei>

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to know women have a spending problem. Even cartoons from the 70s made fun of this fact when Jane Jetson took George Jetsons wallet from him.

This "wartime" spending has gone on far too long. There is no excuse for spending so much money on the military when our roads are falling parts and students need funding for higher education.

i thought we were talking about the WWI debt spike

Would you guys knock off the Bush vs Obama shit already? Bush has been out of office for 5 years now. Obama has ran up the debt like never before. It's a fact.

But it sounds like you are fine with that. Rack up more and more debt and let someone else figure out how to pay it back.

I repeat...BUSH IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

that'd be a great point if the two had nothing to do with each other.

obama has cut the deficit in half. it's now at 3% GDP.