Debian vs. Gentoo vs. Mandrake, am I understand this right?

[beer]

Once again I find myself coming here and being overwhelmed with how much Linux has changed since last summer, when I last played with it.

I set up a testing server here at work (small office) for web development pre-deployments. He ran at runlevel3 and simply acted as a testing platform for my web pages before I took them live. That computer died a peaceful death, possibly from a stroke (motherboard failure). I am in need of setting up a new one and I want to do it right. While it's primary goal is a testing server (and by server, I mean being used by no more than two people at any given time), I would like to explore the linux world with it.

My three main versions that I am considering are Mandrake 9.1, Debian (testing sarge, 3.0rc1 seems dated) and Gentoo 1.4rc4. Here is what my personal pros/cons of each are. Let me know if this is more or less an accurate representation of what actually is.

Mandrake:

PROS: Very simple to install. I'd be installing a relatively new yet stable version. Extensive Mandrake-specific applications help and make it the easiest install with the best hardware detection.
CONS: Uses RPM packages. I have been under the assumption that RPMS are dated and a huge pain in the ass to use, given the liklihood of dependency errors.

Debian:
PROS: APT-GET makes package management extremely easy. Would probably be the leanest version, and thus implicity the most responsive.
CONS: I'd be installing a testing version, and not the latest stable version. I'd have to spend more time on the install. The testing sarge doesn't have some of the more recent packages that Mandrake 9.1 has. Probably not the most stable.

Gentoo:
PROS: very easy to keep up to date.
CONS: I don't know Linux all that well and it might take more time to learn than the other two. I'd have to compile everything so it'd probably be pretty slow to set up.

Is anything I am assuming incorrect?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

[debian ]CONS: I'd be installing a testing version, and not the latest stable version. I'd have to spend more time on the install. The testing sarge doesn't have some of the more recent packages that Mandrake 9.1 has. Probably not the most stable.

Using testing isn't really a con. Debian testing is probably more stable than a lot of commercially shipped linux distros.

Install is pretty short, you just might need to take some time to get the hang of it.

What kind of super-new stuff would you need on a server? You can always grab packages from unstable and/or unofficial repositories.

 

[darktubbly]

Mandrake and Debian are both nice systems if you want something that will work staright off the bat. Both have excellent update/install features and Mandrake does use RPM's, but the latest version has come a long way to prevent the user from ever dealing with dependency problems.

If you're more interested in learning the ins and outs of the system, I would recommend Gentoo. Since it's a test server, compiling shouldn't be a problem. You can get prebuilt packages for the exceptionally large behemoths like X and Gnome, which saves hours on compile time. Gentoo's big plus isn't the fact that everything is optimized to take advantage of your system's hardware (although the speed is nice), but its huge support forum filled with friendly people always willing to lend a hand.

 

[beer]

Which is easier to keep updated, Gentoo or Debian? Is APT-GET any easier than Emerge? (or whatever its called).

 

[darktubbly]

Both are drop dead simple. I'm hazy on Debian's method, but on Gentoo it's something like...

emerge sync
emerge -u system

 

[Soybomb]

I'd like to just throw in a reminder that freebsd's ports system is quite nice too

 

[lowtech1]

You can't really go wrong with the major distros, such as Debian, Gentoo, Mandrake, Redhat, or Suse. There are other Distros that are quite nice to use such as Ark, College, ELX, LinuxInstall, and Knoppix.

I'm partial to Knoppix becasue of its easy to load, auto hardware detechtion that is second to none, hdd install is possible, and the best part is that you can mod the packages for your need. Knoppix default CD is design for a robust desktop that is fill with apps, but you can burn your own CD config with the apps, or server setup that you want. Knoppix is also much more stable than Morphix (a Knoppix variant).

There is no way that anyone can hack a Knoppix machine, because your configuration is burn & finallizes on a CD or DVD, and only require a reboot if some one manage to crash the machine.

 

[EmperorRob]

When it comes to updates Debian has the advantage. For rpm-based distros you usually have to get an rpm packaged by your specific distro (i.e. samba-2.1-mdk.rpm) whereas debs are pretty universal. And apt-get is much easier/simpler.

 

[Nothinman]

CONS: I'd be installing a testing version, and not the latest stable version. I'd have to spend more time on the install. The testing sarge doesn't have some of the more recent packages that Mandrake 9.1 has. Probably not the most stable.

I second the question of what do you need bleeding edge versions of everything on a server for? Debian back ports security fixes to the version in their distro so unless there's some great new feature thats not in Debian you're not missing much.

I run unstable on my main desktop and I can't remember the last time something broke (probably would have been the gcc transition to 3.x because that breaks ABI compatibility but I don't run many, if any, C++ programs so I didn't notice). Sarge is slightly more stable than sid because packages only get pushed to sarge if they go 2 weeks in sid without a bug being filed against them.

There's ~11K packages in sarge right now (that's on Alpha, I don't have an x86 sarge box to see if there's more there), Gentoo has under half that many according to their web page.

 

[CCrunnernb]

mandrake has urpmi now.. so you add the plf source ( Mplayer, divx) contrib source, and you would do something like urpmi mplayer.. doing that would get everything you need for it.. mandrake 9.1 is really nice, and very easy to use

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: CCrunnernb
mandrake has urpmi now.. so you add the plf source ( Mplayer, divx) contrib source, and you would do something like urpmi mplayer.. doing that would get everything you need for it.. mandrake 9.1 is really nice, and very easy to use

urpmi vs. RPM..difference is? You spoke g(r)eek to me

 

[darktubbly]

It's kind of like a centralized package system, similar to what Gentoo/Debian has. It makes it simple to add/remove/update supported packages without worrying about dependencies.

 

[Nothinman]

urpmi vs. RPM..difference is? You spoke g(r)eek to me

urpmi is to rpm as apt is to dpkg.

They're wrappers around the lower level package manager that handle things like dependencies for you.

 

[CCrunnernb]

yes pretty much, if you want mplayer, but you need this and that it'll get that for you too.. basically..

 

[beer]

So Mandrake has a package system similar to those in Debian/Gentoo? Would choosing Mandrake (with urpmi) compare similarily to Debian in both power and ease of use?

 

[darktubbly]

Ease of use, definitely. It's all point and click. Power...that's iffy. In my opinion, Mandrake's package list still needs some refinement. If you're looking for brand spanking new updates, I'd have to side with Gentoo.

 

[Nothinman]

Would choosing Mandrake (with urpmi) compare similarily to Debian in both power and ease of use?

I would say not ease of use, the Debian packages are second to none IMO and that has nothing to do with apt or urpmi.

 

[Ahmose]

One thing to note is that Debian installation is not really for the lighthearted. It's a lot less user-friendly than either Mandrake or Gentoo.
Gentoo has better performance overall (since you're compilling everything for you machine), but
ofcourse this means that you will spend a lot of time compiling stuff (on my P3 800 Mhz this took
hours !!).
That being said, Debian's apt is the way to go, and is worth it for me.

 

[Nothinman]

Gentoo's installation is user-friendly compared to Debian? Christ.

 

[darktubbly]

Elemental007, what's your definition of power here? Just about any distro gives you full access to the system's configuration. Mandrake/RedHat would be a good choice for you if you perform a lot of system administration, and are inexperienced with Linux -- both distros have tools that simplify this process to the point where it's almost Windows wizard based. If you're referring to general day-to-day desktop use, it doesn't really matter once you slap Gnome/KDE on it.

 

[Ahmose]

Well, let me correct myself by saying that Gentoo's installation was easier because
of the great Gentoo installation guide/documents.
A newcomer to Gentoo can pretty much follow the guide line for line without much problems.

 

[Nothinman]

I never had a problem with Debian's docs and lord knows the installer is a lot simpler, well the fact that there even is one helps compared to Gentoo.

 

[NaughtyusMaximus]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
I never had a problem with Debian's docs and lord knows the installer is a lot simpler

Simpler than what? Gentoo doesn't have an installer

If you've never used Linux before, you'll probably have a hard time with Gentoo. My suggestion is to use a commercial Debian based distro, like Libranet.

 

[Drift3r]

I love URPMI ! It works great for me on my Mandrake system. First thing I did when I installed is to download all the patches, fixes, and secuirty updates from Mandrake's official site. Then I installed some URPMI sources for PLF and Texstar packages using this link below.

http://plf.zarb.org/%7Enanardon/urpmiweb.php

Then since I have a subscription to Mandrake's Club I also added their official commercial source and the Mandrake Club's user contrib sources and I am completely set. I have access to all URPMI sources both official and un-official from Mandrake's own package management GUI which I really like using. I can't say enough about how great URPMI works with Mandrake.

 

[Nothinman]

Simpler than what? Gentoo doesn't have an installer

Exactly, might as well go LFS then, that would be the easiest!