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Debate in Egyptian circles these days, "how should we kill the homosexuals?"

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<< Elledan and Optimus,

Are you also opposed to abortion? >>



I don't know about them, but I'll tell you that I'm opposed to both capital puniushment and abortion.

How about you?
 

Capital Punishment remains Capital Punishment. Murder remains murder.

So be it the U.S. has capital punishment, I would rather murder those al qaeda f!cks than have them kill some more innocent people over here. I would rather murder someone like Timothy McVeigh so that stupid bastard could never kill more innocent children. Yes its murder and its wrong, but it works for now.

And Skoord was correct. When was the last time you saw the American judicial system dig a hole and stuff a person in it then stone them to death? All for just having sex.

Yes there are fundamentalist wackos in the U.S. who would like to see all homosexuals dead. But luckily here in the U.S. they are a small minority and the ones that actually act on their beliefs is an extremely small minority of that group.
 


<< << They want us to believe that all Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, and yet they try to do crap like this. >>


Those peaceful, Christian Americans have Capital Punishment. >>

Yes but you won't find many people in the US who want to kill gays or stone people to death or whatever else the hell these backwards POS countries do. >>


I'm fairly certain there are quite some Americans who would gladly support the execution of every single homosexual person.
>>



Elledan i'm all for playin devils advocate and all, but there is a point of playin to the point of IDIOCY.

OBVIOUSLY there is a difference between a small percentage of the population wanting to kill gays or whatever and the government discussing it as a National POLICY. OMFG. Are you just plain DAFT man?
 


<< << They want us to believe that all Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, and yet they try to do crap like this. >>


Those peaceful, Christian Americans have Capital Punishment. >>

Yes but you won't find many people in the US who want to kill gays or stone people to death or whatever else the hell these backwards POS countries do. >>


I'm fairly certain there are quite some Americans who would gladly support the execution of every single homosexual person.
>>



Elledan i'm all for playin devils advocate and all, but there is a point of playin to the point of IDIOCY.

OBVIOUSLY there is a difference between a small percentage of the population wanting to kill gays or whatever and the government discussing it as a National POLICY. OMFG. Are you just plain DAFT man?
 
IT ISN?T A GOVERNMENTAL POLICY!!! LOOK AT THE LINK!!! :|

1) This is from an Israeli newspaper
2) It isn't a main story; it is a column, somewhat like taking the place for a person?s editorial
3) The people saying this are not the government (You?d know this if you read the story) but are RELIGIOUS clerics, such as priests or minister making these statements, not the government or government officials... the statements appeared in a RELIGIOUS newspaper that we don't know the popularity of(or how unpopular it is), and we don't know if the remarks were in the editorial section or not... this could easily happen is any country that had a religious newspaper printed in it, including the US.
 
Blue Apple, all points well taken. In all fairness though, i don't think i posted the story simply for the reason of the setting being Egypt. If this were an American newspaper printing a story about prominent Americans (religious clerics included) making the similar statements, i think i would have thought that worthy of posting as well. If anything, i probably would have found it more relevant had that been the case.
 


<< 1) This is from an Israeli newspaper
2) It isn't a main story; it is a column, somewhat like taking the place for a person?s editorial
3) The people saying this are not the government (You?d know this if you read the link) but are RELIGIOUS clerics, such as priests or minister making these statements, not the government or government officials... this could easily happen is any country?s newspaper, including some in the US.

EDITED >>



" Sheikh Muhammed Abd-Al-Magid Zaydan, of the Egyptian Ministry for Religious Endowment, in the opposition Liberal Party's weekly Al-Haqiqa:
..."

Now, it could be a difference in terminology in Egypt, but in Britain (best example I could come up with, here in the States we call them Departments), a Ministry is not a private group.
 
at this point i SHOULD apologize, and if it had been an american religious sect that had declared that and it had been posted here and i made the statement that it was a govt policy i would apologize.

but the situation in most muslim countries is different.

DO most of you understand WHY ISLAM poses a threat? it's not because there is something fundamentally wrong with the koran (and no i will not get into a debate regarding whethor or not there is something fundamentally wrong with the koran) but because there i something fundamentally wrong w/ ANY society where religion is given SOOO MUCH POLITICAL control.

look thru history, the GREATEST atrocities to commited in history all have a religious context to it. even when Germany and the Jews, it was an issue of RELIGION, the Germans worshiped the aryan race. The japanese in asia, commiting unheard of and unspeakable horrors against the populations of most asian countries. it was in the name of their RELIGION.

The Inquisition, the Crusades. If you want to define one single thing as evil, it is that RELGION and GOVERNMENT combined = EVIL.

That is precisely why even in this situation where you say it is just a religious sect in egypt can quickly become a rally cry for fundamentalist in all muslim countries and can become govt policy. this is not the same thing as a few red necks in texas wanting to shoot some gays because they look like "faggots".
 
Remember, Egypt is a Christian country currently over run by Muslims.
Islam must take the credit for turning Egypt around into a backwards country.

Maybe it's only a Christian country because it was overrun by the British? Maybe they are backwards because that's all post imperialist-controlled countries realistically can be?
 

The Inquisition, the Crusades. If you want to define one single thing as evil, it is that RELGION and GOVERNMENT combined = EVIL.


not quite correct. evil people + religion + stupid people to follow the evil religious people like sheep = evil acts in the name of religion.
 


<<

<< They want us to believe that all Muslims are peaceful and tolerant, and yet they try to do crap like this. 😕 >>


Those peaceful, Christian Americans have Capital Punishment. >>


You say that as though Americans were all Christian and that they all support capital punishment.
I suppose you're trying to combat one generalization by making an equally ludicrous generalization...?
 
The arguement involving capital punishment is not valid. Capital punishment is reserved for people who have committed the worst crimes (i.e. murder, etc.). Killing homosexuals based on some outdated and foolish religious doctrine is a completely separate issue.

The difference between the US and Egypt is that the US government is secular. A particular religious edict has little or no bearing on US law. Religion-based governments should be opposed and abolished.
 


<< Maybe it's only a Christian country because it was overrun by the British? Maybe they are backwards because that's all post imperialist-controlled countries realistically can be? >>



LOL
Egypt was Christian long before England existed.
St. Mark spread it in Egypt around 40 AD
 
There is a big difference between have some people in a country believe a certain thing, and having it as state policy.

Granted the thread is about killing but outside of Vermont you would probably be hard-pressed to find any US state that did not have laws designed exclusively to marginalize homosexuals or target some practice (sodomy) believed to be exclusively homosexual.
 
Ack, I'll pull a FFMCobalt: I was only testing to see if you knew!

I was only familiar with the "ancient Egyptian" polytheism, and the Islamic Egypt contained within the Turkish empire. Regardless, it still isn't as simple as Islam being at fault. What is the purpose of these threads other than to bring together a bunch of people trying to be disgusted Islam. Which part do you guys want to play, the Hatfields or the McCoys?
 
Vespasian: No. The historical record though, shows us that similar actions were taken by some in the past who would find such an action repugnant now. Would we declare what we believe now as at fault by the actions of those who professed the same belief in the past? Probably not.

It's not that this is Amoral or not a big deal, because it is, but to blame Islam for the actions of a few, even if they be clergy, is misplaced criticism.
 
😛 israel should have never given egypt its land back😛 those bastards have done nothing good for the world in recent times besides breed terrorism and hate😛 its time to throw some tarps over the pyramids and drop some nukes😛 :disgust:

if you think american papers are bad, look at egypts. They print garbage about how jews drink the blood of christians and muslims on holidays. and constantly remind their population that the Jews were behind september 11.
 
Those peaceful, Christian Americans have Capital Punishment.

Yes, we do. But it does not involve throwing people off of the tallest wall, no matter how loathsome the act.

Bad comparison, Elledan. I'm disappointed in you. 🙂
 


<< The arguement involving capital punishment is not valid. Capital punishment is reserved for people who have committed the worst crimes (i.e. murder, etc.). Killing homosexuals based on some outdated and foolish religious doctrine is a completely separate issue.

The difference between the US and Egypt is that the US government is secular. A particular religious edict has little or no bearing on US law. Religion-based governments should be opposed and abolished. >>



Christianity is even older. If you start saying Christianity is an outdated, foolish religious doctrine on here, the conservatives will jump on you so hard that you'll be voting for capital punishment against homosexuals before you can even find out they didn't jump you for that reason.

The Bible also is strongly against homosexuality, and also talks about stoning and cutting off hands as punishment. Difference is that most Christians basically ignore anything they don't want to read in the Bible nowadays, while Muslims stick to their religious book a lot more (Note: not all do, but those aren't interesting to talk/write about).
We've got religious freaks here from both the Christian as well as the Islamic world who claim homosexuality is a mortal sin and they should all be put to death, as they belong in hell. Those from the Western, Christian world are just ignored though, while when a Muslim says the same people will fall over eachother to be the first to cry out against 'the religious freaks from the Middle East and their backwards religion'. Or as a very popular, right-wing extremist homosexual politician here recently explained (He hates foreigners and especially Muslims): 'Christians have the oldest rights, so they can say what they want. Muslims are new here and should adapt.'. Translation: Most people here are either Christians, or think they are, or are decendants from Christian, so if I attack Christianity everyone will hate me, while if I attack what's 'new', 'scary' and 'different than Christianity' everyone will like me, eventhough I attack them for reasons that could just as well apply to Christianity.
 


<< Christianity is even older. If you start saying Christianity is an outdated, foolish religious doctrine on here, the conservatives will jump on you so hard that you'll be voting for capital punishment against homosexuals before you can even find out they didn't jump you for that reason.

The Bible also is strongly against homosexuality, and also talks about stoning and cutting off hands as punishment. Difference is that most Christians basically ignore anything they don't want to read in the Bible nowadays, while Muslims stick to their religious book a lot more (Note: not all do, but those aren't interesting to talk/write about).
We've got religious freaks here from both the Christian as well as the Islamic world who claim homosexuality is a mortal sin and they should all be put to death, as they belong in hell. Those from the Western, Christian world are just ignored though, while when a Muslim says the same people will fall over eachother to be the first to cry out against 'the religious freaks from the Middle East and their backwards religion'. Or as a very popular, right-wing extremist homosexual politician here recently explained (He hates foreigners and especially Muslims): 'Christians have the oldest rights, so they can say what they want. Muslims are new here and should adapt.'. Translation: Most people here are either Christians, or think they are, or are decendants from Christian, so if I attack Christianity everyone will hate me, while if I attack what's 'new', 'scary' and 'different than Christianity' everyone will like me, eventhough I attack them for reasons that could just as well apply to Christianity. >>



Frankly, I view all organized religions as a bit foolish. Most of the time, I don't let peoples' religous views influence my opinion of them though; it's not my place to judge one's private beliefs and it's none of my business anyway. However, when people start persucting others using those beliefs as justification, then you bet I'm going to speak out. It doesn't matter to me if it's Christians, Mulsims, or whatever. Now perhaps it is unfair to talk about the Muslims more than the Christians in this regard. But it seems to me (and this could be the result of the media's bias) that, in general, Islam is a much more intolerant religion than the other major ones. Islam, by its nature, strives to be a "pure" faith, which results in strict interpretations of the Koran, as well as resistance to outside (i.e. moderate) influences. Combine this with the close (and sometimes combined) relationship between faith and government in the Middle East, and I believe a dangerous situation of fundamentalist governments are the result. This is something simply not seen in most other parts of the world because of the secular nature of most modern governments.
 
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