Death to the philips head screw

[Howard]

I love me some Robertson and socket head cap screws. TORX wouldn't be so bad but it's just not that popular IME.

 

[3chordcharlie]

We, uh, have those in the US, too? Or is it that they're much more common in C, eh? N, eh? D, eh?

Much more common - stuff we buy comes with whatever it comes with (philips and allen mainly), but when we go get screws at the hardware store, the selection is mainly robertson.

I can't imagine building (or worse, repairing) a deck with philips head screws.

 

[Eli]

Why do we still use these lame screws....high torque screws would be so nice.

Use the proper philips bit and you won't have any problems appplying enough torque.

 

[Ramma2]

Thats great, 20 mins wasted on reading about different types of screw heads, and its only 8:40 in the morning. What a way to start the day!

 

[dullard]

Why do we still use these lame screws....high torque screws would be so nice.

You missed the entire point of Phillip's head screws. They were designed specificially to PREVENT high torque situations. The screwdriver is designed to slip before the high torque happens. The real problem is that too many people and too many companies use Phillip's head screws for high torque situations.

 

[Raduque]

I personally can't stand flathead screws. I think it's because the vast majority of flathead screws have the notch going all the way through the head, and this is what allows the screw driver to slip out the sides and gouge something expensive, or something that bleeds.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

because the alternative is that torture device that ikea uses called an allen wrench

A friend of mine worked at a place that assembled a lot of furniture with those. One day he got smart and cut the end off one of the allen wrenches that came with the set and put it in a cordless drill. The difference in ease of assembly was immense.

 

[Greenman]

Anything other than slot is fine with me.

 

[Meghan54]

You're just making excuses for a poor design. Robertson screws are superior. They go in easier and when they go in, they come out, no questions asked.

No excuses made. But you fail to understand Phillips screws were designed for simplicity of use on assembly lines, not for home users. The fact that the screw allows a power driver to easily seat on contact and almost automatically forces the driver to disengage when torqued meant that the screw was a boon to assembly line work.

If it were so terrible, why did the Phillips screw supplant the Robertson screw that was in use prior to the Phillips screw in assembly line work? The Robertson screw was used since Henry Ford began using it in the Model T construction. When the Phillips screw was introduced in the early 1930's, industry moved quickly to the Phillips and left the Robertson behind.

You'd figure a screw that had a three decade head start in industrial use (the Robertson was patented in 1908, the Phillips was patented in 1933) would have been difficult to supplant, but the Phillips did it quickly and easily.

But by 1939, 85% of the global screw manufacturing industry became licensed to produce the Phillips screw system, including Guest, Keen and Nettlefolds (United Kingdom), largest fastener manufacturer in the world. If it had been so bad, why the wholesale move to it? After all, they already had the "superior" Robertson available to them for decades before.

 

[Zargon]

quit whinning about phillips and be happy they arent plain ass slotted screws.

but allen caps FTW.

 

[The Stig]

Why do we still use these lame screws....high torque screws would be so nice.

THANK YOU! One of the things I have always loved about being a SAAB guy is that they are put together with Torx screws which are infinitely superior.

 

[RoloMather]

No excuses made. But you fail to understand Phillips screws were designed for simplicity of use on assembly lines, not for home users. The fact that the screw allows a power driver to easily seat on contact and almost automatically forces the driver to disengage when torqued meant that the screw was a boon to assembly line work.

If it were so terrible, why did the Phillips screw supplant the Robertson screw that was in use prior to the Phillips screw in assembly line work? The Robertson screw was used since Henry Ford began using it in the Model T construction. When the Phillips screw was introduced in the early 1930's, industry moved quickly to the Phillips and left the Robertson behind.

You'd figure a screw that had a three decade head start in industrial use (the Robertson was patented in 1908, the Phillips was patented in 1933) would have been difficult to supplant, but the Phillips did it quickly and easily.

But by 1939, 85% of the global screw manufacturing industry became licensed to produce the Phillips screw system, including Guest, Keen and Nettlefolds (United Kingdom), largest fastener manufacturer in the world. If it had been so bad, why the wholesale move to it? After all, they already had the "superior" Robertson available to them for decades before.

Nice ownage. /thread

 

[Elganja]

flat <<<<<< phillips < allen < torx <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< socket based IMHO... everything should be socket based and just have things inset if you need something to be flush.

 

[nageov3t]

the nice thing about philips is that you can more or less make do with whatever philips head screwdriver you have around, unlike torq or square where you need to have access to a bunch of different screwdrivers or bits.

 

[Cogman]

Why Phillips? Because it is freaking easy to manufacture.

 

[feralkid]

And that's the single biggest problem with Phillips screws and drivers. Few people understand the drivers are sized as are the screw heads.

And few understand how a Phillips driver works. When using a properly sized driver and screw, when the driver torques out of the screw when tightening, the screw is at its optimal torque. That's the way it's supposed to work....the first time it torques out, it's appropriately tight for that screw and driver combo.

But, instead, we think it "slipped" out, reinsert the driver into the screw, bear down harder and continue turning the screw, typically slipping out a few more times...and ultimately damaging the screw, but we don't realize this until we attempt to remove that screw that's torqued beyond its torque specs, and damage it even more trying to remove the "stuck" overtorqued screw.

That is absolute weapons grade bolonium.

The screw at its optimal torque...did you just make that up?

Now we can all throw away our torque wrenches and just use phillips head fasteners...because "the first time it torques out, it's appropriately tight for that screw and driver combo."

Truly a miracle!

 

[lxskllr]

That is absolute weapons grade bolonium.

The screw at its optimal torque...did you just make that up?

Now we can all throw away our torque wrenches and just use phillips head fasteners...because "the first time it torques out, it's appropriately tight for that screw and driver combo."

Truly a miracle!

LMAO! That's what I was thinking :^D

 

[slag]

Much more common - stuff we buy comes with whatever it comes with (philips and allen mainly), but when we go get screws at the hardware store, the selection is mainly robertson.

I can't imagine building (or worse, repairing) a deck with philips head screws.

I built a deck with robertson head screws from Mcfealy and it was a pita. We bought 10 extra bits for the air driver we were using and were down to 3 when we got done. The problem is that the are very prone to breaking off and splintering if you arent exactly level with the screw head. Other screw drive types you can be just a bit off and wont shred the bit, but with robertsons, if you are leaning just a little to the side, no matter how hard you try, bam, once you start driving it in, it rips the bit to shreds.

Then, when you want to get more bits, you have to order them because no place stocks them because they are crap. Give me phillips or star(torx) any day over those square head crappy designed screws.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I built a deck with robertson head screws from Mcfealy and it was a pita. We bought 10 extra bits for the air driver we were using and were down to 3 when we got done. The problem is that the are very prone to breaking off and splintering if you arent exactly level with the screw head. Other screw drive types you can be just a bit off and wont shred the bit, but with robertsons, if you are leaning just a little to the side, no matter how hard you try, bam, once you start driving it in, it rips the bit to shreds.

Then, when you want to get more bits, you have to order them because no place stocks them because they are crap. Give me phillips or star(torx) any day over those square head crappy designed screws.

Funny, when I helped re-do my parent's deck we didn't have any problems with the square drives but we always chucked a bunch of philips.

 

[slag]

Funny, when I helped re-do my parent's deck we didn't have any problems with the square drives but we always chucked a bunch of philips.

did you use high speed air drive drills or regular slower electric ones? That might have been part of my problem.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

did you use high speed air drive drills or regular slower electric ones? That might have been part of my problem.

Electrics. Both corded and cordless.

 

[dullard]

That is absolute weapons grade bolonium.

The screw at its optimal torque...did you just make that up?

Now we can all throw away our torque wrenches and just use phillips head fasteners...because "the first time it torques out, it's appropriately tight for that screw and driver combo."

Truly a miracle!

No, Feralkid, you are wrong in this case. The Phillips head took lots of time to develop simply for that reason. It is designed to slip out at the proper amount of torque. If you want something with a higher torque, you are using the wrong screw. It isn't that the screw is bad, it is that you are using a good screw for the wrong purpose.

Here is a history of the Phillips screwdriver:
http://www.charlesandhudson.com/archives/2008/07/the-history-of-the-phillips-screwdriver.htm
"Another advantage: It's hard to overscrew with a power tool. The screwdriver will likely just pop out when the screw is completely fastened."

 

[marincounty]

Phillips screws are fine, you just need a tool called the impact driver to remove the really tight ones. You can buy a cheap hammer operated one for about $10-15.
The reason why torx and allen heads are lousy in some applications is that the heads fill up with dirt and stuff rendering them useless.

 

[Anonemous]

Allen and torx screws FTW! There's a reason why electronics and million dollar microscopes use them. Wouldn't want to strip the screw and be screwed.

 

[lxskllr]

No, Feralkid, you are wrong in this case. The Phillips head took lots of time to develop simply for that reason. It is designed to slip out at the proper amount of torque. If you want something with a higher torque, you are using the wrong screw. It isn't that the screw is bad, it is that you are using a good screw for the wrong purpose.

Here is a history of the Phillips screwdriver:
http://www.charlesandhudson.com/archives/2008/07/the-history-of-the-phillips-screwdriver.htm
"Another advantage: It's hard to overscrew with a power tool. The screwdriver will likely just pop out when the screw is completely fastened."

That predates modern tools. It may have been an alright hack for the day, but it's inappropriate now. How much is the right amount of torque? 20#, 30#, 70#? who the hell knows with that scheme. It may or may not be torqued right, you can't tell by tool slippage.