Death penalty poll

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Colt45
Abolish the death penalty, but institute automatic hard labour for violent crime.

16hr days crushing rocks, with a ration consisting of a can of sardines and a bottle of water. Might make criminals think twice.

This. I don't support the death penalty either, but prisoners on the inside should be forced to work as hard as people on the outside. Ideally, prisons should be close to self-sustaining. It's only fair - there are no freebies in life, and life in prison should not be easy. I earn my food and shelter - a prisoner should as well.

You and others make a very compelling argument. :thumbsup:

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Colt45
Abolish the death penalty, but institute automatic hard labour for violent crime.

16hr days crushing rocks, with a ration consisting of a can of sardines and a bottle of water. Might make criminals think twice.

I dont think so... the death penalty has been proven not to be a deterrent to crime, and we all know how miserable prison existence is. Beyond being confined there is the whole gang butt rape thing to worry about. That doesnt sound better to me than hard labor - I'd take breaking rocks any day! If we are going to keep them in prison though, they should be working, and creating some positive benefit for society - I agree with that. but it isnt a crime deterrent.

People that commit major offsenses fall into 2 basic categories. This may be oversimplified, but basically true.

1. Those that are crazy - (either temp as in fit if rage, or permanent like Jeffrey Dahmer) either they just cant control themselves or just don't care about the consequenses

2. Those that think they have a good enough chance of getting away with it without getting caught.

The level of punishment, be it years in prison, breaking rocks or death, has little to do with it.

 

[StageLeft]

Third option. It should be eradicated in all cases regardless of crime.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Lemon law

2. Given our legal system and all the inordinate costly appeals involved in a death sentence, its far far cheaper to house and feed a miscreant for the rest of their natural life. And maybe a more effective punishment.

the point is do it quick, no endless appeals. At least in cases where its overwhelmingly obvious that the person is guilty, like DNA evidence etc.

That's a great idea. Now instead of people sitting on deathrow for a decade and then eventually being vindicated because they shouldn't have been there in the first place we can just kill them before they have a chance for the justice system to actually free them, excellent!

This. I don't support the death penalty either, but prisoners on the inside should be forced to work as hard as people on the outside. Ideally, prisons should be close to self-sustaining. It's only fair - there are no freebies in life, and life in prison should not be easy. I earn my food and shelter - a prisoner should as well.

I do think so, too. They should be made to work. If they don't want to work they get even more taken away from them so that all they have is literally a bed and food and water, absolutely nothing else whatsoever; make them work for their privileges.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I am against the death penalty for two reasons.

1. The death penalty is irreversible, its already known and proven, sometimes juries convict the wrong person.

2. Given our legal system and all the inordinate costly appeals involved in a death sentence, its far far cheaper to house and feed a miscreant for the rest of their natural life. And maybe a more effective punishment.

#1 is the only reason i am against the death penalty. Far to many times you finda guy in jail for years is not guilty of the crime he is in jail for. In IL they found like 4 guys on death row who were not guilty of what they were on death row for.

In cases where the guy says yes i did it and DNA proves it. then yeah kill the MF'ers but right now we don't have a good system in place for it.

#2 is also true. in many cases they can appeal it out for like 20 years. WTF thats insane.

 

[MetalMat]

I am for it but I do not think it is a deterant to anyone that is going to commit that kind of crime. They do need to have evidence though that without a shadow of a doubt the suspect did perform the crime imo.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

This. I don't support the death penalty either, but prisoners on the inside should be forced to work as hard as people on the outside. Ideally, prisons should be close to self-sustaining. It's only fair - there are no freebies in life, and life in prison should not be easy. I earn my food and shelter - a prisoner should as well.

I do think so, too. They should be made to work. If they don't want to work they get even more taken away from them so that all they have is literally a bed and food and water, absolutely nothing else whatsoever; make them work for their privileges.

Seriously, they should even be deprived of food and water if they refuse to earn it. The grocer does not give me my food for free; why should prisoners expect special treatment? Prisoners should be given the option to earn their keep by working, and if they refuse, they've made their own choice to starve to death. It's their own decision.

 

[Stuxnet]

Against

 

[Stuxnet]

This:

Originally posted by: loki8481
I don't trust the government and a dozen strangers to decide whether I should live or die.

and especially this:

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
I don't think killing criminals solves anything...

On the flip-flop, I think our prison system is way too soft. The prison system should be hard, hard labor camps and operate with the goal of being non-profit, whilst trying to minimize loss.

Coincidentally I report for jury duty on Monday. Probably won't serve, though, because I'll be claiming hardship on several basis. I'm actually disappointed, because I've always wanted to go through the experience.

 

[gingermeggs]

rule no 1- thous shalt not kill
it come back to believing in what you preach
it is a monotheist law principal

 

[BoberFett]

Absolutely against the death penalty. I don't trust government to ever do things properly, so I certainly don't trust it enough to decide if somebody should live or die.

 

[gingermeggs]

start adressing the causative and not the symptoms and life in the USA will be alot better for all human beings.

 

[CitizenKain]

What the fuck is wrong with people regarding our prison system in this country?

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Seriously, they should even be deprived of food and water if they refuse to earn it. The grocer does not give me my food for free; why should prisoners expect special treatment? Prisoners should be given the option to earn their keep by working, and if they refuse, they've made their own choice to starve to death. It's their own decision.

Originally posted by: retrospooty
No... But for crimes serious enough for a sentence of life in prison, it should be death. Obviously not petty theifs, traffic violators, or small things like that.

another one that pisses me off is child molesters. Even if found guilty most of them spend only a few years in jail - that one should be death by bing tied down and honey glazed over a fire ant nest. =)

People like the two of you are why our system sucks so bad. The people who think prisoners should be raped are the same as people who think a woman wearing a dress deserves to be raped.

 

[gingermeggs]

white collar convicts get away with blue murder too often- start there!

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Absolutely against the death penalty. I don't trust government to ever do things properly, so I certainly don't trust it enough to decide if somebody should live or die.

Agreed.

In theory, I think murderers, rapists, and child molestors should be put to death. However, I don't trust the government (or anyone else for that matter) enough to carry it out with 100 percent reliability. If one innocent person is killed it's not worth it.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Skoorb

This. I don't support the death penalty either, but prisoners on the inside should be forced to work as hard as people on the outside. Ideally, prisons should be close to self-sustaining. It's only fair - there are no freebies in life, and life in prison should not be easy. I earn my food and shelter - a prisoner should as well.

I do think so, too. They should be made to work. If they don't want to work they get even more taken away from them so that all they have is literally a bed and food and water, absolutely nothing else whatsoever; make them work for their privileges.

Seriously, they should even be deprived of food and water if they refuse to earn it. The grocer does not give me my food for free; why should prisoners expect special treatment? Prisoners should be given the option to earn their keep by working, and if they refuse, they've made their own choice to starve to death. It's their own decision.

I only said give the basics so that it's unequivocally clear that the prison system is not making slaves and creating "labor camps" in which you will be increasingly forced to work more and more just for basic room and board, because this gets too close to a North Korean-type system.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Lothar
Death penalty in itself is stupid since the victim suffers nothing for his/her crimes.
Allowing prisoners to sit in prisons the way it's done here is just as stupid as well if it's not done the way France does it for their terrorist suspects/convicts.

Community service should be mandatory for prison inmates that don't have a medical disability.
Instead of letting them rot in prisons all day long or giving them the easy way out through the electric chair/gas chamber, make them work.
Make them do something productive like digging a ditch for a new dam, bridge, pick up trash, or something else(Panama Canal anyone?).
Hell, they can even replace the union workers that work for Ford, GM, and Chrysler since they won't be paid a wage or anything.

Yes, yes, yes!

I want to drive a car built by prison labor!

I can already see the new ads: "Chevy...Like the Rock!"

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

What the fuck is wrong with people regarding our prison system in this country?

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Seriously, they should even be deprived of food and water if they refuse to earn it. The grocer does not give me my food for free; why should prisoners expect special treatment? Prisoners should be given the option to earn their keep by working, and if they refuse, they've made their own choice to starve to death. It's their own decision.

Originally posted by: retrospooty
No... But for crimes serious enough for a sentence of life in prison, it should be death. Obviously not petty theifs, traffic violators, or small things like that.

another one that pisses me off is child molesters. Even if found guilty most of them spend only a few years in jail - that one should be death by bing tied down and honey glazed over a fire ant nest. =)

People like the two of you are why our system sucks so bad. The people who think prisoners should be raped are the same as people who think a woman wearing a dress deserves to be raped.

Way to respond with sensationalized idiocy instead of addressing what I said. I'm asking no more from prisoners than what society asks from me (a non-criminal citizen).

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I only said give the basics so that it's unequivocally clear that the prison system is not making slaves and creating "labor camps" in which you will be increasingly forced to work more and more just for basic room and board, because this gets too close to a North Korean-type system.

Unfortunately, you're right - there's tremendous potential for abuse in a prison labor system. Still, better prisoners be potentially abused than taxpayers otherwise forced to subsidize someone else's life in prison. After all, entering prison is frequently a choice.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: Lothar
Death penalty in itself is stupid since the victim suffers nothing for his/her crimes.
Allowing prisoners to sit in prisons the way it's done here is just as stupid as well if it's not done the way France does it for their terrorist suspects/convicts.

Community service should be mandatory for prison inmates that don't have a medical disability.
Instead of letting them rot in prisons all day long or giving them the easy way out through the electric chair/gas chamber, make them work.
Make them do something productive like digging a ditch for a new dam, bridge, pick up trash, or something else(Panama Canal anyone?).
Hell, they can even replace the union workers that work for Ford, GM, and Chrysler since they won't be paid a wage or anything.

Yes, yes, yes!

I want to drive a car built by prison labor!

I can already see the new ads: "Chevy...Like the Rock!"

Actually prison labor is used to make things like furniture for the Bureau of Prisons.

I'm against the death penalty in all cases, but should be left up to the states to decide whether to use it. Not a federal issue.

Bring back chain-gangs and make being in prison unpleasant. Not to say they need a hickory shampoo when they fall out of line, but some physical coercion would be necessary.

Letting prisoners lift weights and mingle with others unsupervised isn't the way to cure things.

Then again, the prison system isn't about the cure, but the $$$.

 

[MovingTarget]

I voted for the last option as I follow the Thomas Aquinas "Gangreous Limb" ethical theory concerning capital punishment. It should only be used in the most extreme cases as the theory allows.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

What the fuck is wrong with people regarding our prison system in this country?

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Seriously, they should even be deprived of food and water if they refuse to earn it. The grocer does not give me my food for free; why should prisoners expect special treatment? Prisoners should be given the option to earn their keep by working, and if they refuse, they've made their own choice to starve to death. It's their own decision.

Originally posted by: retrospooty
No... But for crimes serious enough for a sentence of life in prison, it should be death. Obviously not petty theifs, traffic violators, or small things like that.

another one that pisses me off is child molesters. Even if found guilty most of them spend only a few years in jail - that one should be death by bing tied down and honey glazed over a fire ant nest. =)

People like the two of you are why our system sucks so bad. The people who think prisoners should be raped are the same as people who think a woman wearing a dress deserves to be raped.

Way to respond with sensationalized idiocy instead of addressing what I said. I'm asking no more from prisoners than what society asks from me (a non-criminal citizen).

Except we have removed the prisoners from society and imprisoned them. When we imprison people, we take over their care.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Except we have removed the prisoners from society and imprisoned them. When we imprison people, we take over their care.

I really don't see an issue with making prisoners earn their keep. What is the problem with that approach?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

What the fuck is wrong with people regarding our prison system in this country?

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Seriously, they should even be deprived of food and water if they refuse to earn it. The grocer does not give me my food for free; why should prisoners expect special treatment? Prisoners should be given the option to earn their keep by working, and if they refuse, they've made their own choice to starve to death. It's their own decision.

Originally posted by: retrospooty
No... But for crimes serious enough for a sentence of life in prison, it should be death. Obviously not petty theifs, traffic violators, or small things like that.

another one that pisses me off is child molesters. Even if found guilty most of them spend only a few years in jail - that one should be death by bing tied down and honey glazed over a fire ant nest. =)

People like the two of you are why our system sucks so bad. The people who think prisoners should be raped are the same as people who think a woman wearing a dress deserves to be raped.

You needn't really worry. The punitive mentality is a product of self hate. We were all punished as children for our bad deed on the premise that making us feel worthless could cure our behavior. What it did was turn us all into little Nazi prosecutors like out parents.

The notion that you punish to prevent, instead of discover and guide children by love and understanding of their behaviors is mirrored in everything that we do.

I said you needn't really worry if these folk make you angry, because it is their own soul they molest every time their minds turn to punishing somebody else. They are actually far harder on themselves than they ever will be to others. Those who wish hell on others ARE in hell. Of course they do not know it and do not consciously suffer, but they will live their whole lives and never know they missed there one shot at heaven.

There is a law of karma that says that what you wish for others is where you are. Only those who forgive can ever forgive themselves. Ones hate of others is ones hate of one's self. It is a law that cannot be broken. Do not hate them for their hardness for they know not what they do.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
Except we have removed the prisoners from society and imprisoned them. When we imprison people, we take over their care.

We only "remove prisoners from society and imprison them" because we're forced to do so by their own actions! The prisoner exercises choice in this situation, not society, which merely acts to protect itself. Recent true-life example: My brother-in-law, his wife, and two of his kids were recently struck head-on in their car by a drunk illegal with no license. This was this person's fifth DUI! In that situation, society had little choice to lock this person up, because this person clearly was unwilling to stay off publics roads while completely drunk. The offender was clearly exercising choice, and was solely responsible for losing his freedom.