Dear Valued Credit Card Customer;

[Engineer]

Usually they're covered by VISA/MC's fraud policies.

However the problem is if someone steals your debit card and swipes it for $5k, your account goes into the red. Sure you'll get it back, but what if you needed cash tonight? Then what do you do? What if you're traveling?

On a credit card, you have all month to figure it out... or til whenever your statement closes PLUS until the bill is actually due. So, yeah you get screwed, but you're not really screwed unless you don't take care of it.

That's what I thought. Also, most credit cards "freeze" disputes until resolved so you will not owe anything, for months if it lasts that long.

 

[alkemyst]

CPA: IRT electronic statements and the like....

I for one will not sign up for them for a few reasons.

1) get robbed and then cancel your CC's...good luck getting into that account to pull statements which may list items that have been stolen.

2) if you use this for your paychecks...almost all companies will cut off access once you are terminated / leave. It's a PITA to get all your copies back if even an option.

I agree it's something I'd like to do, but I think it'd be in better interests of the companies to cut down the size of the statements (my AMEX which usually has nothing on it is about 6 pages, my wife's Citi Preferred card about the same).

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Well when you make certain revenue illegal then of course business is going to find a way to get their money. Anybody that paid attention to this issue knew it was predicted rates would rise as well as fees. Notice how the balance transfer fee went up 25-40%? Foreign currency fees? Annual fees? Inactivity fee? They WILL find a way to make money, that's the purpose of business, to make money.

It's known fact that the CARD act directly caused these increases on responsible card holders, and decreased fees on irresponsible ones (over balance, late, carry high interest rate cash advances, etc. There really isn't any debating it.

Ah yes, the credit card companies are helpless, harried, hardworking, entrepreneurs just trying to make a buck (or,a few billion) whose only responsibility is to rake in the shekels as fast as possible.

And people think we'll never make the same mistakes again that led to our current financial woes.

 

[spidey07]

Ah yes, the credit card companies are helpless, harried, hardworking, entrepreneurs just trying to make a buck (or,a few billion) whose only responsibility is to rake in the shekels as fast as possible.

And people think we'll never make the same mistakes again that led to our current financial woes.

That is the purpose of business, to make money. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to use their services.

The business of business is to make money. There is no other purpose, business exists solely to make money. If you disagree then I encourage you to work for free.

 

[Engineer]

That is the purpose of business, to make money. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to use their services.

Bingo. If you don't like their new fee structure, go elsewhere. Simple as that.

If they lose enough people, they will change.

 

[sdifox]

I think the lowest interest I have on CCs is 19.5%

I don't really care since I pay on time.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

For your several years of being a valued customer, a history of on-time payments and carrying a small but meaningful balance with us, we would like to reward you by jacking up your annual fee. Have a nice day!

Sincerely yours;

Fucking Moronic Money Grubbing Credit Card Company

If the balance is small, why keep it?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

That is the purpose of business, to make money. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to use their services.

The business of business is to make money. There is no other purpose, business exists solely to make money. If you disagree then I encourage you to work for free.

How about the responsibility to make money tomorrow or the day after or, the day after that? Business does not operate in a vacuum or perform purely according to economic principles. Just because the other factors in doing business are hard to quantify and, difficult to manage, doesn't mean they don't exist. The current approach to big business seems to be either drive any competition out of business or find another business that you can. No one looks beyond the next quarter.

True long term profitability can only come from enlightened self interest. But you and the other folks who seem to follow the principal of "I got mine and screw you" will drag the entire country into another financial fuck up time and, time again. All the while decrying the evils of whatever bureaucrat is currently in office keeping you from making money faster.

 

[blinblue]

That's what I thought. Also, most credit cards "freeze" disputes until resolved so you will not owe anything, for months if it lasts that long.

For what its worth, my credit union (who issues my Visa Debit Card) says they will refund any disputed money within 2 days if it is brought to their attention within 30 days, and within 10 days if the issues is brought to their attention after 30 days.


Also, as an interesting side thought. What if more merchants gave discounts for paying in cash? Most businesses are eating around 1.5-2% whenever a credit transaction is done, and I've seen a couple small stores offer a cash discount (usually 2%). Because basically your cash back credit cards are just giving back (more or less) the fee that they charged the store anyway. So if more businesses offered a 2% cash discount, you could get your "cash back" instantly.

 

[alkemyst]

If the balance is small, why keep it?

Most that have huge credit limits hardly carry any balances.

Having credit available is just that...rainy day money.

In today's credit world many are now racking up balances and paying them off each month to keep cards "fresh" and from getting that letter in the mail that reads "sorry for any inconvenience (even though this $10,000 reduction is going to fuck your credit score), but we are closing the above mentioned account for inactivity."

 

[spidey07]

How about the responsibility to make money tomorrow or the day after or, the day after that? Business does not operate in a vacuum or perform purely according to economic principles. Just because the other factors in doing business are hard to quantify and, difficult to manage, doesn't mean they don't exist. The current approach to big business seems to be either drive any competition out of business or find another business that you can. No one looks beyond the next quarter.

True long term profitability can only come from enlightened self interest. But you and the other folks who seem to follow the principal of "I got mine and screw you" will drag the entire country into another financial fuck up time and, time again. All the while decrying the evils of whatever bureaucrat is currently in office keeping you from making money faster.

I know you better than that. Don't tell me that business direction and decisions are not based on long term strategical goals. The short term, sure that's reacting to conditions and opportunity. But the long term goals and profitability still drive the decisions.

yeah, yeah, I know we're way off thread so I'll stop. But you're no fool.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Most that have huge credit limits hardly carry any balances.

Having credit available is just that...rainy day money.

In today's credit world many are now racking up balances and paying them off each month to keep cards "fresh" and from getting that letter in the mail that reads "sorry for any inconvenience (even though this $10,000 reduction is going to fuck your credit score), but we are closing the above mentioned account for inactivity."

Actually, I run about $3K/month on my Amex and pay it completely off, too. So, It isn't that I am not using it, nor suffering from a shrinking available balance (took me <90 seconds three weeks ago to move it from $9K to $25K to outfit the home theater electronics).

Then again, I do wonder if household income and credit worthiness might be played into this. Also, I have multiple Amex accounts. For instance, I have another that I use only for online purchases (<$500), maintain no balance, and its available limit hasn't gone down in the 7-8 years I have had it.

As such, I am not seeing what you are suggesting.

 

[alkemyst]

I think the lowest interest I have on CCs is 19.5%

I don't really care since I pay on time.

You may begin to care when you cannot pay in full.

Having and using high rate CC's makes sense when you aren't running interest and getting card benefits.

Without lower interest cards though you have no safety net unless you have a ton of cash in the bank liquid.

However, being that your best cards are at 19.5% says a lot about your credit worthiness.

It really depends what you do in life. Many that just pay cash for everything are probably kids still living at home with all the big expenses in their life covered. You can't shop online with cash, you cannot rent a car, you cannot book most decent hotel rooms, flights, etc.

I get a laugh when out at a restaurant and you hear the bragart responding to his waitress: "credit card? credit cards are for losers, I pay everything in cash"...then he flashes his bank roll (probably his last paycheck cashed) and flips a couple 20's on the table.

They think they really are hot shit.

 

[ultimatebob]

Funny... I'm still not getting any annual fees on my cards, and I honestly don't give a shit what my interest rates are because I don't take cash advances or keep a balance on my cards.

If anything, the cash back bonuses on my credit cards have actually improved over the past few years. I'm not one of those millionaires who's whines about their upcoming tax increases while hosting dinner parties on my yacht, either... I'm just an average guy with a good credit score and a six month emergency fund.

Are stories like these really normal?

 

[alkemyst]

Actually, I run about $3K/month on my Amex and pay it completely off, too. So, It isn't that I am not using it, nor suffering from a shrinking available balance (took me <90 seconds three weeks ago to move it from $9K to $25K to outfit the home theater electronics).

Then again, I do wonder if household income and credit worthiness might be played into this. Also, I have multiple Amex accounts. For instance, I have another that I use only for online purchases (<$500), maintain no balance, and its available limit hasn't gone down in the 7-8 years I have had it.

As such, I am not seeing what you are suggesting.

With a $500 card as it's original limit, I don't think you have many real cards.

Most cards do have a bottom limit for the card program, I can't see AMEX having a below $500 tier.

Household income isn't really a factor, your CC companies don't really know that.

What becomes a factor is utilization and some have said spending habits...it's a row of dominoes though once a few key company's yank their cards or reduce their limits.

Lets just say you had a nice card with about $20k available on it and then a mix of some store cards with $500-1000 limits you picked up for discounts, and then a handful random cards you rack up and pay off each month or two.

Say you hit a bad month and although your $20k card was just used it's always fully paid off, your other cards are all almost 100% full. Your big creditor is doing a review of their books and see your huge credit limit as only touched once and then fully paid off. To them that's a lot of exposure and they aren't making interest. Since you $20k is usually empty, you decide to make your minimum payments to the other creditors and a big lump sum to the $20k card bringing it down to a few thousand of payoff.

While in the process of closing this account your creditor sees it's now got a balance. They don't see any pending activity so they drop your limit to your balance.

You just went 100% utilized basically. Your other cards now see this and calculate their exposure. The lower limit cards may be at the program bottom so they jack the rate up to the limits allowed. You credit score now is dropping even more because since the interest is greater you are paying it off slower and your utilization is staying higher a lower time.

 

[alkemyst]

Funny... I'm still not getting any annual fees on my cards, and I honestly don't give a shit what my interest rates are because I don't take cash advances or keep a balance on my cards.

If anything, the cash back bonuses on my credit cards have actually improved over the past few years. I'm not one of those millionaires who's whines about their upcoming tax increases while hosting dinner parties on my yacht, either... I'm just an average guy with a good credit score and a six month emergency fund.

Are stories like these really normal?

no most don't have dinner parties on their yachts and many are still hoping to one day have a six month reserve.

 

[spidey07]

Funny... I'm still not getting any annual fees on my cards, and I honestly don't give a shit what my interest rates are because I don't take cash advances or keep a balance on my cards.

If anything, the cash back bonuses on my credit cards have actually improved over the past few years. I'm not one of those millionaires who's whines about their upcoming tax increases while hosting dinner parties on my yacht, either... I'm just an average guy with a good credit score and a six month emergency fund.

Are stories like these really normal?

Did you not see the massive hikes on international purchases? That's the only place I really got hit. The disclosure portions of the act are awesome. But I still paid 200 bucks worth of fees for use of my card outside the us. The entire reason I use it is because of that protection.

 

[StageLeft]

IMO we'd all be better off if all the card companies has an annual percentage of 500&#37;, then nobody would use them for anything except what they absolutely sure-as-sh*t can pay off next month. Break the habit.

FWIW I have bankof america and citibank and neither has given me annual fees (I will drop them when they do) or other silly games, though rates did go up on citi a year or so back. I never keep a balance on city, rarely on bank of america and it's never more than several hundred.

 

[StageLeft]

Good heavens it's fvcking agonizing reading some of the posts in this thread. I have three cards and use two of them every several months as a keep-alive. The third only for online purchases, rental cars, hotels and crap like that. My credit score is 791.

First, this phobia about being exposed for endless damages with your debit account is nonsense. Yes, they may put a hold on it but how hard is it to have a second bank account? It's not hard at all. I have two checking accounts. I only carry the debit account to one of them. I replenish it online (takes 30 seconds) from time to time so it's never got more than a few hundred bucks in it and I use it for all day to day purchases. If I ever have the card stolen those few hundred are the full extent of the money I can lose--and remember of course you will get it back eventually.

Second, stop this sh*t right now about using cards for points. You have fallen into the trap of marketing nonsense. It is a demonstrable fact and studies prove it that when people use cards they spend something like 7-12&#37; more money than if they were paying with cash (or debit, presumably), so unless you're getting back 10% you're still overspending, regardless of how many nearly useless airline points you have. I have points accumulated on a current card from $26,000 in money put through it and what do they buy? $200 in gift certificates. It's chump change, like scraps to a dog.

Once I saw the light and started using debit for almost everything I have taken my good credit score and made it awesome and I have also seen my savings fly up because I'm no longer playing monthly chump catch up to pay the card off each month.

The consumer debt trap is poison to be used very sparingly.

 

[alkemyst]

IMO we'd all be better off if all the card companies has an annual percentage of 500%, then nobody would use them for anything except what they absolutely sure-as-sh*t can pay off next month. Break the habit.

FWIW I have bankof america and citibank and neither has given me annual fees (I will drop them when they do) or other silly games, though rates did go up on citi a year or so back. I never keep a balance on city, rarely on bank of america and it's never more than several hundred.

If you can pay it off next month, you shouldn't need credit.

 

[SunnyD]

Why not just tell us what card you have that is worth having w/ an annual fee. If it's the AMEX Black, props to you... otherwise, not many cards are worth it IMO. Paying an annual fee is almost as dumb as not being able to pay off your monthly bill fully and having to deal with APR.

Because it doesn't matter? It's an old unsecured card I've had for quite some time back when my credit was shit from being a stupid college student and I was rebuilding my credit. As mentioned, I'm in the middle of building a house, and yes, my credit isn't over 9000 like everyone else here on AT-I'm-a-fucking-billionaire-OT, so any derogatory action toward my credit score would be a bad thing.

If the balance is small, why keep it?

See above?

 

[mrCide]

I carry a balance on my amex business card, apr is 7.2&#37;, my usaa mastercard is for non-amex purchases - apr is 8.9%.

No complaints here.

 

[Golgatha]

Usually they're covered by VISA/MC's fraud policies.

However the problem is if someone steals your debit card and swipes it for $5k, your account goes into the red. Sure you'll get it back, but what if you needed cash tonight? Then what do you do? What if you're traveling?

On a credit card, you have all month to figure it out... or til whenever your statement closes PLUS until the bill is actually due. So, yeah you get screwed, but you're not really screwed unless you don't take care of it.



Why not just tell us what card you have that is worth having w/ an annual fee. If it's the AMEX Black, props to you... otherwise, not many cards are worth it IMO. Paying an annual fee is almost as dumb as not being able to pay off your monthly bill fully and having to deal with APR.

Wow, this is what I got when Googling AMEX Black

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card

 

[Golgatha]

For what its worth, my credit union (who issues my Visa Debit Card) says they will refund any disputed money within 2 days if it is brought to their attention within 30 days, and within 10 days if the issues is brought to their attention after 30 days.


Also, as an interesting side thought. What if more merchants gave discounts for paying in cash? Most businesses are eating around 1.5-2% whenever a credit transaction is done, and I've seen a couple small stores offer a cash discount (usually 2%). Because basically your cash back credit cards are just giving back (more or less) the fee that they charged the store anyway. So if more businesses offered a 2% cash discount, you could get your "cash back" instantly.

Most merchant agreements prohibit this exact practice.

 

[Vette73]

Most merchant agreements prohibit this exact practice.

Not if it is worded correctly. You can give a discount for cash but can't charge a fee for using a CC.

Also they, CC companies, do allow business's to have a min. amount you must spend to use a CC.