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Dean vs. Buchanan debate

N

NJDevil

Senior member
Imagine my surprise when I picked up the Daily Pennsylvanian 2 weeks ago to see a proposed Howard Dean and Pat Buchanan debate right on campus. I entered the lottery for tickets, and was fortunate enough to get a pair so one of my roommates and I could attend.

Knowing how far right Buchanan and Dean were, I was expecting an all out debate, but I was mistaken. What I saw was pretty impressive. The men agreed on many points, mainly the mistake of invading Iraq, which both Buchanan and Dean had good explanations of their views. Buchanan is pretty isolationist, and although I am in total contrast to his social positions, I agreed with his view on what we should do in the middle east. (Mainly, convince the Iraqi's that we don't want to be there forever, and get them to fight the terrorists, and eventually pull out all our troops). Dean was a bit more ideological (not as much as the neo conservative movement), but he rationalized it pretty well.

It was nice to listen to two voices who were not being held back by politics, as none are running for office, and I really wish the presidential debates were half as good as this one.

The moderator asked some other questions, regarding the war on terror/domestic issues, although no social ones. Both men were very respectful of each other, with Dean at one point commenting, "I think I've been passed on the left" to the delight of the audience. They each had moments of laughter and thoughtful points. All in all, I really wish these we had nominees more like these two men.

By no means am I a Howard Dean/Pat Buchanan junky, but there was a genuine sincerity about them and about their overall message, that we (students) need to get out and vote that was really quite pleasant.

Have any of you had a chance to see anything like this? What did you think? Please try to keep the flamewar down, and for the record, I'm an independent voting for Kerry.

Conjur/Infohawk/Ntdz/everyotherpersonwhodenouncestheothersidewheneverpossible, please be nice here. I really don't think your "contributions" when they come in the form of hate/lack of decency help too much. I hope you understand my desire to keep this a pretty nonpartisan thread (if that's possible).

:beer:
 
I can see how they would agree on many issues, mainly with foreign policy and "big business". It's always been my impression that Buchanan was a leftist masquerading as a conservative.

I do believe both are patriots in the sense that they both really care about America and and trying to do what they can to make it better. I also think the majority of their ideas -both men's- are pretty horrible. I would have liked to have been there.
 
Buchanan ... leftist? I think you're mistake in your political vocabulary. The real "conservative" believes in small government, a balanced budget (fiscal responsibility) ... which Pat Buchanan is a huge supporter of. Bush, on the other hand classifies more as a Neo-conservative, where they see America as the world's police force, tasked with spreading democracy.
 
It was nice to listen to two voices who were not being held back by politics, as none are running for office, and I really wish the presidential debates were half as good as this one.
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That would be refreshing. I'm personally tired of being snowballed by politicians. Their blathering makes it almost impossible to see through to the substance.
 
cwjerome:

No, Buchanan is about as conservative as they get. He's a Buckley/Will conservative, not a neo-conservative willing to invade every country at will. You are young, you will learn and change and become a better person once you understand that life doesn't end at our borders.

-Robert
 
Originally posted by: chess9
cwjerome:

No, Buchanan is about as conservative as they get. He's a Buckley/Will conservative, not a neo-conservative willing to invade every country at will. You are young, you will learn and change and become a better person once you understand that life doesn't end at our borders.

-Robert
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Absolutely. I became a big Buchanan fan when I was in high school. I was a bit turned off by his borderly anti-Semitism . . . then I realized he hated everybody that wasn't WASP. American Conservative magazine is essentially what National Review used to be under WFB.

 
I'm a lib. No doubt about it, but to me, Buchanan is a curiosity. Aside from his rabid xenophobia, he's pretty bright. He deeply hates what the neo-cons have done, but he's so stuck on himself and his own voice that he would refuse to vote for Kerry, even though it would be far more beneficial to his own principles and long term goals.

He's had the same problem as long as I've watched him. He couldn't bring his own ethics into line with his job writing blathering speeches to support lying scum like Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew.
 
Originally posted by: Harvey
I'm a lib. No doubt about it, but to me, Buchanan is a curiosity. Aside from his rabid xenophobia, he's pretty bright. He deeply hates what the neo-cons have done, but he's so stuck on himself and his own voice that he would refuse to vote for Kerry, even though it would be far more beneficial to his own principles and long term goals.
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the ends justify the means?
 
I'm also a sort of "closet" Buchanan fan. I've read some of his articles that were dead on. He is a very bright guy (check out his book reviews on Amazon). His other views though, especially immigration, I'm dead against though.
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
I can see how they would agree on many issues, mainly with foreign policy and "big business". It's always been my impression that Buchanan was a leftist masquerading as a conservative.

I do believe both are patriots in the sense that they both really care about America and and trying to do what they can to make it better. I also think the majority of their ideas -both men's- are pretty horrible. I would have liked to have been there.
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Buchannen a closet 'leftist' AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAH. That's a good one!
 
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