Dean takes heat for flag remarks -**Dean doesn't apologize**@@NOW ALMOST DOES!!!@@

[tnitsuj]

Reaching out to new potential constituencies is one thing...but I think that deep down Dean feels the same contempt that I do for these human scum.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

 

[Shelly21]

Yes, a flag is just that, a symbol. It's the dumbasses that use it for racist motive that is dividing this country.

Just because most racists have a rebel flag on their pickup truck, it doesn't mean the same the other way around.

Here in Richmond, there are a lot of rebel flags. I'm not disgusted by that... but I'm disgusted by people still using N'words here and there more often than an Eddie Murphy movie.

 

[Nitemare]

Ahhh...the War of Northern Aggression..it steals my heart

He who wins the war writes the history books

Dean is a vote whore that is too stupid to realize that he will never win a Southern state even if he had the Dixie flag tattooed on his forehead. He did gain a little respect from me for not apologizing afterwards though.

As Shelly said, the flag is just a symbol that some redneck inbreds use. They also wear white sheets...Does this mean we should ban white sheets and bleach?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

"I regret the pain that I have caused,..."

Not really an apology, but more of an attempt to downplay and calm the discussion.

CkG

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"I regret the pain that I have caused,..."

Not really an apology, but more of an attempt to downplay and calm the discussion.

CkG

Still waiting for a quote from one of the candidates similar to the famous (infamous) "you people" remark.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

you are an idiot. i'm not gonna waste my time telling you why you're an idiot. Take my word for it. Because no matter how many times i tell you that you're an idiot. You wont believe me.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

I didn't think people would get boners off of p&n posts. i guess i was wrong. Why is ok to offend African Americans, but it's ludicrous to sport the swastika? Maybe if you weren't so white you would kind of see a Black man's point of view? But so long as you're waving you're confederate flag, you can take comfort in knowing this society favors the white man over the black man. a bunch of "inbred hicks" contributing to this structured racism. I think dean is an idiot for making the statement. But i really doubt any of the candidates care so much for African Americans beyond the bs they feed them.

 

[DealMonkey]

Interesting take on the "flag-flap" over at Slate.com:

Flag on the Field
Can Howard Dean admit when he makes a mistake?
By Chris Suellentrop
Posted Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2003, at 8:50 PM PT


BOSTON?Who wants to bet that Howard Dean wishes he had said last week that he wanted to reach out to people who have silhouettes of naked women on their mudflaps? Or people who sport, "American by birth, Southern by the grace of God" bumper stickers? Or people who display pictures of Calvin urinating on Chevy or Ford logos on their back of their trucks?

But no, he had to say, "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks" in an interview with the Des Moines Register. I happen to think this is a bogus issue. Recovering their appeal to white working-class voters is something of an obsession among Democratic Party politicians, and the Dean campaign rightly points out that the Confederate-flag comment is something that their candidate says all the time, and that he never received any criticism for it in the past. During tonight's debate in Boston, the campaign issued a press release pointing to C-SPAN footage from the February 2003 winter meeting of the Democratic National Committee that was attended by every candidate except John Kerry. There, Dean said, "White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too." The campaign says he was received with a standing ovation, "even bringing Party Chairman Terry McAuliffe to his feet," and they say you can see it on C-SPAN here, right before the 2:09:00 mark.

...

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I am surrounded by houses and pickups displaying the Confederate Flag. Just about every one of them Vote except for those that can't read and don't even have electricity. They also still have signs in their front yards of how they are pissed they didn't get a chance to vote on the State Flag issue. The previous Governor Barnes just went and changed under pressure from Tourism and other Political interests.

They are pissed about still being told what they can and cannot do especially now the Ten Commandments issue.
They will not abandone references to God without a fight I can tell you that.

Only you, Dave, could turn this thread into a discussion about the ten commandments. Geeze. Although, you do have a point in that flying the confederate flag, the inability to read, and supporting a southern brand of in-your-face religion apparantly goes hand-in-hand.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

I didn't think people would get boners off of p&n posts. i guess i was wrong. Why is ok to offend African Americans, but it's ludicrous to sport the swastika? Maybe if you weren't so white you would kind of see a Black man's point of view? But so long as you're waving you're confederate flag, you can take comfort in knowing this society favors the white man over the black man. a bunch of "inbred hicks" contributing to this structured racism. I think dean is an idiot for making the statement. But i really doubt any of the candidates care so much for African Americans beyond the bs they feed them.

Bwuahahaha..what a tool

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

I didn't think people would get boners off of p&n posts. i guess i was wrong. Why is ok to offend African Americans, but it's ludicrous to sport the swastika? Maybe if you weren't so white you would kind of see a Black man's point of view? But so long as you're waving you're confederate flag, you can take comfort in knowing this society favors the white man over the black man. a bunch of "inbred hicks" contributing to this structured racism. I think dean is an idiot for making the statement. But i really doubt any of the candidates care so much for African Americans beyond the bs they feed them.

Bwuahahaha..what a tool

good one.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

I didn't think people would get boners off of p&n posts. i guess i was wrong. Why is ok to offend African Americans, but it's ludicrous to sport the swastika? Maybe if you weren't so white you would kind of see a Black man's point of view? But so long as you're waving you're confederate flag, you can take comfort in knowing this society favors the white man over the black man. a bunch of "inbred hicks" contributing to this structured racism. I think dean is an idiot for making the statement. But i really doubt any of the candidates care so much for African Americans beyond the bs they feed them.

Welcome to the Nat X show, the only 15 minute show on television. Know why it's only 15 minutes? Because the white man wouldn't let it be 30!!

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

I didn't think people would get boners off of p&n posts. i guess i was wrong. Why is ok to offend African Americans, but it's ludicrous to sport the swastika? Maybe if you weren't so white you would kind of see a Black man's point of view? But so long as you're waving you're confederate flag, you can take comfort in knowing this society favors the white man over the black man. a bunch of "inbred hicks" contributing to this structured racism. I think dean is an idiot for making the statement. But i really doubt any of the candidates care so much for African Americans beyond the bs they feed them.

Welcome to the Nat X show, the only 15 minute show on television. Know why it's only 15 minutes? Because the white man wouldn't let it be 30!!

<--- Runs Pers off with a broom

 

[Mursilis]

Such irony - a member of the race card party gets burned by someone playing the race card. Great stuff. Live by the race card, die by the race card.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Pers

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.

Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.

CkG

It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.

I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.

Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North

CkG

You sir are correct on both your points!

I didn't think people would get boners off of p&n posts. i guess i was wrong. Why is ok to offend African Americans, but it's ludicrous to sport the swastika? Maybe if you weren't so white you would kind of see a Black man's point of view? But so long as you're waving you're confederate flag, you can take comfort in knowing this society favors the white man over the black man. a bunch of "inbred hicks" contributing to this structured racism. I think dean is an idiot for making the statement. But i really doubt any of the candidates care so much for African Americans beyond the bs they feed them.

Welcome to the Nat X show, the only 15 minute show on television. Know why it's only 15 minutes? Because the white man wouldn't let it be 30!!

WTF! wait...so are you okaying me sporting the swastika? i'm confused.

 

[Pers]

<--- Runs Pers off with a broom

more like...

runs me off wearing a white sheet with a burning crucifix in hand.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Pers

<--- Runs Pers off with a broom

more like...

runs me off wearing a white sheet with a burning crucifix in hand.

Ever watched the old SNL w/ Chris Rock playing the part of Nat X?

I was raised in the South and attended schools & worked at jobs where white people were a minority. I, essentially was born whitish and raised in an environment where I identified with minorities. Most of my best friends were black. I would have no problem at all with flying a confederate flag and them knowing about it nor would I have a problem with joining up with them and taking down a Klan rally with baseball bats. The only thing wrong with the confederate flag is people constantly associate with racism because of some rednecked inbred militia groups who have for the most part have been forcibly relocated out of the South and into Idaho and Montana. The only people that are allowed to play the race cards are those that were directly affected ie...lived in the South during the Jim Crow days, if you didn't please STFU as you are talking out of your @ss and don't know what you are saying.

WTF are you at and what right have you got to assume the rights of defending the Black man through use of nazi references?

FYI. It's a burning cross not a crucifix..you would know that if you knew anything at all what you were talking about.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Pers

<--- Runs Pers off with a broom

more like...

runs me off wearing a white sheet with a burning crucifix in hand.

Ever watched the old SNL w/ Chris Rock playing the part of Nat X?

I was raised in the South and attended schools & worked at jobs where white people were a minority. I, essentially was born whitish and raised in an environment where I identified with minorities. Most of my best friends were black. I would have no problem at all with flying a confederate flag and them knowing about it nor would I have a problem with joining up with them and taking down a Klan rally with baseball bats. The only thing wrong with the confederate flag is people constantly associate with racism because of some rednecked inbred militia groups who have for the most part have been forcibly relocated out of the South and into Idaho and Montana. The only people that are allowed to play the race cards are those that were directly affected ie...lived in the South during the Jim Crow days, if you didn't please STFU as you are talking out of your @ss and don't know what you are saying.

WTF are you at and what right have you got to assume the rights of defending the Black man through use of nazi references?

FYI. It's a burning cross not a crucifix..you would know that if you knew anything at all what you were talking about.

Bingo

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Pers

WTF! wait...so are you okaying me sporting the swastika? i'm confused.

Yeah...that's exactly what I'm saying.

In fact I'm sitting here in my black suit, with a death's head lapel pin, red swasitka tie, and enjoyng the silky comfort of my swastika boxers. Damn it's good to be a Nazi.

 

[Moonbeam]

Everybody is a human being, the from the backward inferiority complexed Southerner up to the Presidential candidate. What Dean did was express a Liberal feeling that all people are deep down good and that he wants to see them that way and represent them. When that Liberal feeling impacts the world of reality, the one filled with self hate reactions occur. The competition, lusting for their own hopes analyzes for advantage. I can turn the noble feeling into support for racism. The Southerner to whom it was directed makes manifest his self hate by shining the offer on pretending he's above the need for such care.

The arguments here are all about the ways in which we are mentally ill. And because of it the world is dying. And you are the one who cannot see. You are the reason the world is dying.

 

[EXman]

The funny thing is that Dean is pretty smart the Southern Democrats have got the shaft for a long time and it is catching up to them now as Bush strides into the South and Pushes 2 Republicans into the Governor's houses into supposed Democratic strongholds. Why Cause the Dems care about the urban minority voter over the southern voter. And if election 2000 shows you anything the US citizens do not just live in the Big cities.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

You are the reason the world is dying.

Sorry, everybody. I did not mean to kill the world

 

[SuperTool]

Dean is right. Rightwingers like to polarize people over these stupid emotional issues that are irrelevant to most people's lives. Dean is just saying, fine, have a confederate sticker on your car, have your guns, drive your pickups, you are still welcome in the Democratic party because there are more important issues than that.
The biggest difference between GOP and Dems is fiscal policy. The level of spending has been a wash or higher with GOP control, but one party seeks to match taxation with spending and let the economy take care of itself, and another seeks to run huge deficits to stimulate the economy.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Dean is right. Rightwingers like to polarize people over these stupid emotional issues that are irrelevant to most people's lives. Dean is just saying, fine, have a confederate sticker on your car, have your guns, drive your pickups, you are still welcome in the Democratic party because there are more important issues than that.
The biggest difference between GOP and Dems is fiscal policy. The level of spending has been a wash or higher with GOP control, but one party seeks to match taxation with spending and let the economy take care of itself, and another seeks to run huge deficits to stimulate the economy.

That's not what he said though