Dean takes heat for flag remarks -**Dean doesn't apologize**@@NOW ALMOST DOES!!!@@
- Thread starter CADsortaGUY
- Start date
I know that somehow the Democrats need to reach out to Southern voters..but my gut tells me that the kind of people who have Confederate flags on thier trucks aren't ever going to vote Democrat in general.
Waste of effort, and distasteful to me personally.
Waste of effort, and distasteful to me personally.
i would tend to agree with you tnitsuj
what gets me are some idiots in this state (OK) that have these on their trucks...
oklahoma wasnt a freakin' state until 1907. there were some minor battles fought here but unless you are choctaw, chickasaw, seminole, creek or cherokee you or your ancestors didnt have anything to do with that war in this state. period.
its veiled racism in the name of "heritage". no two ways about it.
EDIT: and i do find it unfortunate that Dean made these comments.
what gets me are some idiots in this state (OK) that have these on their trucks...
oklahoma wasnt a freakin' state until 1907. there were some minor battles fought here but unless you are choctaw, chickasaw, seminole, creek or cherokee you or your ancestors didnt have anything to do with that war in this state. period.
its veiled racism in the name of "heritage". no two ways about it.
EDIT: and i do find it unfortunate that Dean made these comments.
Yes, because that is what all Democrats 100% believe in. Government handouts and unions. Troll somewhere else.
Shouldn't you be off lobbying for some overpriced, unneccessary weapons system just because it makes you feel good and strong and powerful in some way??
Now that is a troll comment.
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Shouldn't you be off lobbying for some overpriced, unneccessary weapons system just because it makes you feel good and strong and powerful in some way??
Now that is a troll comment.
No, we should avoid overpriced weapons systems.
at least the weapons systems would create jobs. and dems DO belive in free handouts. but not for white men only minorities. Why? because they buy votes. Of course republicans buy votes from coperations through other means. besides who cares what dean said, give it up its almost as bad as when lott made his innocent comments. You cant accuse people of thought crimes.
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light. Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.
Maybe thrown in some WWE references for good measure.
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light.
Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.
CkG
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light.
Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.
CkG
It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.
mastertech01
Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
- Nov 13, 1999
- 11,875
- 282
- 126
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light.
Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.
CkG
It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.
I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.
Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North
CkG
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light.
Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.
CkG
It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.
But the Nazi flag stands for German state rights and their desire to split from the European Continent... don't let the history revisionists fool you into equating the Nazi flag with the Holocaust. Its their twisted agenda.
Excuse the tasteless sarcasm...
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light.
Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.
CkG
It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.
I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.
Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North
CkG
I don't know what you're talking about Cad, as I specifically said: "Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war." Where did I say that was the only issue? Of course I didn't.
I think it's funny that people are trying to make a big issue of Dean's remarks. Once again trying to use racist innuendos to play politics. I'm not a Dean fan by any stretch of one's imagination, but I think that trying to churn his statements into political points or damage is laughable, but I do think Dean needs to re-assess his thinking about who might actually vote for him. I doubt there are many "confederate flag wavers" who will vote for Dean
Both sides(Dean vs other candidates) are pretty silly on this issue. IMO it only serves to split their support.
CkG
Both sides(Dean vs other candidates) are pretty silly on this issue. IMO it only serves to split their support.
CkG
Howard Dean Refuses to Apologize for Remarks
<snip>
Dean, saying, "I'm no bigot," declined to apologize for the comment and told his rivals the Democrats will never recapture the White House until they find a way to appeal to working class white voters in the South. "I make no apologies for reaching out to poor whites," he said.
</snip>
"poor whites" - eh?
<snip>
His voice rising, Sharpton called the Confederate flag "America's swastika," accused Dean of misquoting King and said of Dean's flag comment, "I think it is insensitive and you ought to apologize for it. You are not a bigot but you appear to be too arrogant to say 'I'm wrong.'"
When Dean again tried to defend himself, Sharpton dismissed him, saying he sounded more like "Stonewall Jackson than Jesse Jackson" and accusing Dean of stereotyping southern whites by suggesting they all display the Confederate flag on their pickups.
Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) then indignantly called on Dean to apologize, and when Dean refused, Edwards said, "The last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need."
</snip>
Go get em boys Beat that non-issue over his head
CkG
PS - bolding is mine
<snip>
Dean, saying, "I'm no bigot," declined to apologize for the comment and told his rivals the Democrats will never recapture the White House until they find a way to appeal to working class white voters in the South. "I make no apologies for reaching out to poor whites," he said.
</snip>
"poor whites" - eh?
<snip>
His voice rising, Sharpton called the Confederate flag "America's swastika," accused Dean of misquoting King and said of Dean's flag comment, "I think it is insensitive and you ought to apologize for it. You are not a bigot but you appear to be too arrogant to say 'I'm wrong.'"
When Dean again tried to defend himself, Sharpton dismissed him, saying he sounded more like "Stonewall Jackson than Jesse Jackson" and accusing Dean of stereotyping southern whites by suggesting they all display the Confederate flag on their pickups.
Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) then indignantly called on Dean to apologize, and when Dean refused, Edwards said, "The last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need."
</snip>
Go get em boys
Beat that non-issue over his headCkG
PS - bolding is mine
Top aides to three of Dean's rivals -- Edwards, Kerry and Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) -- are privately working together to deny Dean a key labor endorsement from the Service Employees International Union, which meets later this week to decide whether to endorse Dean. The SEIU is the largest union in the AFL-CIO.
Damn! This sounds like an episode of survival with alliances taking shape. The tribe has spoken.
Damn! This sounds like an episode of survival with alliances taking shape. The tribe has spoken.
Originally posted by: Gaard
Top aides to three of Dean's rivals -- Edwards, Kerry and Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) -- are privately working together to deny Dean a key labor endorsement from the Service Employees International Union, which meets later this week to decide whether to endorse Dean. The SEIU is the largest union in the AFL-CIO.
Damn! This sounds like an episode of survival with alliances taking shape. The tribe has spoken.
Pssstt - that is in a different thread....It's Insane3D approved too
CkG
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Top aides to three of Dean's rivals -- Edwards, Kerry and Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) -- are privately working together to deny Dean a key labor endorsement from the Service Employees International Union, which meets later this week to decide whether to endorse Dean. The SEIU is the largest union in the AFL-CIO.
Damn! This sounds like an episode of survival with alliances taking shape. The tribe has spoken.
Pssstt - that is in a different thread....It's Insane3D approved too
CkG
Sorry, I just pulled it from your link.
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,116
- 1
- 0
Ok....first off...there are some idiots that use the Confederate Battle Flag for racist purposes. Does that make it racist? No, it's a historical symbol. Some people like having it around as a symbol of the Southern culture/Southern Pride. It's too bad the unwashed pig headed morons have soiled it to the point many think of it as a racist symbol along the lines of the swastika which itself has been twisted into standing for something it did not.
Secondly. There were regular U.S. Army troops involved in Civil War battles in what was then the Indian Territory and later became Oklahoma.
Here are a couple of examples:
OLD FORT WAYNE
Oct. 22, 1862
Forces Engaged: 1st Division, Army of
the Frontier (US); 1st Brigade (CS)
Estimated casualties: US 14, CS 150
Result: Union victory
July 1-2, 1863
Forces Engaged: Detachments from
nine units (US); two regiments and
detachments from two other units
(1,600-1,800) (CS)
Estimated casualties: US 23; CS 65
Result: Union victory
MIDDLE BOGGY DEPOT
Feb. 13, 1864
Forces Engaged: Three companies of
the 14th Kansas Cavalry Regiment
and a section of Howitzers (US);
Seminole Battalion, Company A, 1st
Choctaw and Chickasaw Cavalry
Regiment, and a detachment of 20th
Texas Regiment (CS)
Estimated casualties: Unknown
Result: Union victory
More info
here Though they have the Battle of Round Mountain taking place too far West on the map.
and
here
As for what Dean said. He's pandering to what used to be the Deomcratic base in the South. Stupidity if you ask me........
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Dean kinda missed the demographic with his comments. He should have definitely mentioned Nascar Racing and Coors Light.
Yeah - I think that's why Kerry and others are going to be able to jump him on this issue(or rather non-issue). To me the flag isn't "devisive" and doesn't stand for slavery. To equate it with slavery is a pretty twisted view - IMO, but whatever it takes to further your agenda I suppose.
CkG
It doesn't seem like a far leap for me: Confederates were fighting, at least partially for, their rights to keep slaves. That was the central issue of the civil war. It's like saying the Nazi flag doesn't represent the killing and enslavement of jews.
I'm not going to turn this into another flag thread because it wasn't the thrust of the article, but I will just say this. The Confederate flag has been maligned because the loser always gets the brunt of the blame. It was not a war only for/against slavery - it was a war for state's rights. Yes that included some slavery issues but it was definately not the only issue. Revisionism is great, no? Again - I'm not going to discuss this further because no matter how much data I have to back up my statements - some will always believe that the flag represents slavery inspite of what history says.
Now back to the topic - I find if interesting that Dean somehow thinks that "those guys" are going to somehow believe and vote for some two bit yank from from the North
CkG
I am surrounded by houses and pickups displaying the Confederate Flag. Just about every one of them Vote except for those that can't read and don't even have electricity. They also still have signs in their front yards of how they are pissed they didn't get a chance to vote on the State Flag issue. The previous Governor Barnes just went and changed under pressure from Tourism and other Political interests.
They are pissed about still being told what they can and cannot do especially now the Ten Commandments issue.
They will not abandone references to God without a fight I can tell you that.
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